Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Great look at the NBA from the Premier League

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Great look at the NBA from the Premier League

    Interview with Andy Barr, who worked in the Premiere League and now works for the Knicks.

    http://aggbot.com/link.php?id=12571155&r=tw&c=45

    Andy Barr lifts the lid on life with the New York Knicks and tells Ian Watson what the Premier League and its players can learn from the NBA.

    Following on from part one of TEAMtalk's interview with New York Knicks performance specialist Andy Barr, the former Bolton, Southampton and Manchester City man reveals how dealing with the packed schedule of the NBA and it's highly-paid superstars contrasts with working in the political environment of the Premier League.

    To read part one, click here.

    Did the Knicks look to English football to bolster their sports science and medical department because the Premier League is seen around the world as a good example of how sports science can be successfully applied?

    No, it's quite insular over here. Most people have no idea what is going on in the Premier League really.

    I'm not sure that there are many teams inside the NBA that are looking outside of the USA for new ideas in terms of sports science. Because the US is so vast, they have their own system; it's very different to what we do in Europe.

    The USA is basically the size of Europe, and there you have a lot of different influences from different countries and cultures. That doesn't happen so much over here because the USA is so vast.

    In terms of the individual player, how do you compare the experience of working with an NBA star to that of dealing with a Premier League footballer?

    From the start, you're dealing with a more responsible athlete.

    Because of the American culture, you're working with an athlete coming into the professional game at an older age and it makes a big difference.

    Most go to university for at least one or two years, so you're getting them at 20 or 21. We have a player at the Knicks that we picked in the draft at the age of 23 and he had just been to university to do his Masters.

    They have a bit more experience outside of professional sport, and they haven't earned millions of dollars before the age of 19. Whereas in the Premier League, you get 16-year-olds coming into that environment, they think they've made it straight away and they lose sight and respect for certain things.

    The American athletes seem to be a little more mature. These guys are really good at looking after themselves and they are happy to come in and do a lot of the injury prevention work. They appreciate that it's all part of keeping them on the court and they love it.

    I found sometimes that working with some footballers, they think 'why am I doing all this crap? I just want to play'.

    It was nice to come to the USA and work with these guys because they want to buy into it and a lot of the stuff we were bringing over from football was really well received.

    When a manager is replaced in the Premier League - unlike the NBA - it seems to be a case of 'one out, all out'. What kind of effect can that approach have on the long-term development of a football club?

    Obviously as a manager you want to be able to do what you want to do. But from a club philosophy, in my opinion, the sports science and medical team should be a separate and self-sufficient entity.

    That's what I like about working in the USA; there is much less of a hierarchical structure. I work in a sports science and medical department that works alongside the coaching department within the organisation. It's a completely different structure.

    Over here, the medical departments can withstand changes in the organisation, whereas often in football, when one major change occurs in the coaching department, everyone gets affected.

    Because it's so high-pressure in football, the coach just wants people around him who he knows he can trust, and that creates uncertainty. There is so much brain space taken up by people worrying about their job and then they are not as effective. The lack of security can create a cut-throat environment and it's not healthy.

    It comes from the people at the top not understanding the original structure or philosophy.

    If a new coach is brought in he should be someone who fits the club's system and philosophy in relation to sports science and not someone who is going to change every aspect of the club, good or bad!

    Compared to what you were used to in the Premier League, from a sports science point of view, what did you find when you arrived at the Knicks?

    It's different here. In the Premier League, sports science has developed a lot over last 15 years and has a lot of influence over many teams' training methods.

    What Dave [Hancock, former Chelsea, Leeds and England physio] and I found in the States when we arrived was that sports science doesn't hold as much influence.

    But that's something we've really worked on with the Knicks and the team has benefited immensely, especially this season through the fitness of our players.

    Given you had no background in basketball, were the Knicks players and staff immediately receptive to your ideas?

    I've been really fortunate to work with the Knicks' coaches - they have been really receptive.

    The head coach, Mike D'Antoni, played and managed in Europe, so he was already aware of the knowledge some of the sports science guys have. He's a really good guy.

    I think Dave and I have been able to influence and educate the Knicks coaches on developing athletic potential and that has had a big influence in their training.

    Developing the player as a whole is what will bring you success, not just skill and technical ability. That comes from what we've learnt in the Premier League, but it's not always being applied there properly either.

    Dave and I have been lucky and we've worked with some of the best managers. Dave worked with Jose Mourinho and I've worked with some great managers too. But there were also others where I thought 'this is like going back to the dark ages'.

    One thing I have found is that the Americans are very professional and there's less of a political environment - the Premier League can be very, very political.

    Last year's NBA champions, the LA Lakers, played 102 games, while Double-winners Chelsea played 55. Premier League managers and players often complain about their workload, but the NBA schedule appears much more demanding. Is it fair to compare the two?

    No. They are worlds apart really, but both sports could learn from each other.

    It's funny, the football season is very long and then during the off-season, the best players usually have other commitments so they don't get any rest. The NBA season, however, is much shorter but they cram in hundreds of games!

    We play four games a week and games on back-to-back nights. [42 of the Knicks' 82 regular-season games during the current campaign are on back-to-back days.]

    The Knicks will play a game in one city then fly that night to another city and get in at 3 or 4am depending on the timezone. We'll play another game that night, then fly back to New York, practice at our facility, then play at Madison Square Garden the following day before flying off to off to another city. It's just non-stop.

    What problems arise from a schedule as packed as that?

    The biggest problem is coping with the effects of the travel and the sleep deprivation.

    The game itself is very, very intense, but it is intense in short bursts and the players have time to recover within the game. Obviously, they can be substituted on and off too, and while a match lasts 48 minutes, it takes about two-and-a-half hours to complete. It's like a show, the whole thing is set up to entertain. It's unbelievable!

    The hardest thing, though, is undoubtedly dealing with the amount of travelling while playing back-to-back nights, all while keeping up a consistent level of performance.

    But they prepare in a very different way. It's all a bit traditional, and what we've tried to do is apply a bit more scientific thinking and ask why they do certain things: Is it because it's tradition or because it's the right thing to do?

    Dave and I have changed quite a few things to help the players and the coaches have been really receptive. We've reduced the amount of shooting practices on the mornings of home games so the players can sleep in, we've looked at the intensity of training in terms ensuring the players who are playing get more rest, we've incorporated more injury-prevention sessions and educated the players on refuelling and rehydration, which has been vital.

    Given that the NBA schedule is so packed, when do teams find time to train and practice?

    The players get a lot less time off in comparison to footballers. They get the odd day off, but we do a lot of recovery sessions. But even then they can get on the court.

    The players have to deal with a lot of information. On a game day, even if we've had a game the night before, the players will review the previous game on video before turning to that night's opposition. They'll then get more film just before the game so there is a lot of coaching time.

    Because we are together on the road so much, it's easy to pull the players in to work with them collectively and individually.

    Premier League managers often appear reluctant to use their best players unless it is absolutely necessary. Given the workload, is squad rotation a concept teams in the NBA are familiar with?

    In football, you have to look at which games it is crucial to have your best players starting. The art of being a great manager is largely in the selection process across all the competitions.

    The NBA is just one competition, so the thinking is 'well, we need to win as many games as possible', but it is easier to preserve a player.

    If an NBA player is showing signs of tiring, then the coach might only put them in at the crucial times. It's easy to track whether the points are going up or down so if coach sees that they are dropping dramatically, then he can get his best players back out there extremely quickly.

    That's obviously a skill in itself - knowing when to take the players off and when to put them back in.

  • #2
    Re: Great look at the NBA from the Premier League

    each soccer league game the mids run an ave of 10 miles. Way harder than NBA

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Great look at the NBA from the Premier League

      Originally posted by pacer4ever View Post
      each soccer league game the mids run an ave of 10 miles. Way harder than NBA
      As he points out in the article, the NBA schedule is packed pretty tight with not much time for rest. While soccer requires more cardio from running, basketball puts heavy pressure on the body from the constant jumping and sharp cuts.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Great look at the NBA from the Premier League

        Originally posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
        While soccer requires more cardio from running, basketball puts heavy pressure on the body from the constant jumping and sharp cuts.
        There's not much worse on your knees than basketball.
        "man, PG has been really good."

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Great look at the NBA from the Premier League

          Great read. Thanks for posting.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Great look at the NBA from the Premier League

            Originally posted by Ozwalt72 View Post
            There's not much worse on your knees than basketball.
            Yes, they play on a soft surface and only 38 regular season games a year.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Great look at the NBA from the Premier League

              Originally posted by d_c View Post
              Yes, they play on a soft surface and only 38 regular season games a year.
              Most soccer players play much more than that. National team club team ect.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Great look at the NBA from the Premier League

                The American athletes seem to be a little more mature. These guys are really good at looking after themselves
                This was the one thing that really stood out to me. Immaturity is maybe the biggest complaint from NBA/American sports fans, and I know that this guy was speaking in regards to players working out and training, but he made it sound like these guys are also more professional and poised. Thought that was interesting.
                It's a new day for Pacers Basketball.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Great look at the NBA from the Premier League

                  Originally posted by d_c View Post
                  Yes, they play on a soft surface and only 38 regular season games a year.
                  If we are talking England and say Manchester U players, it's 38 games Premier league last year,
                  up to 6 FA cup games (dropped out after 1 in reality)
                  Carling Cup up to 6 games
                  Community Shield 1 game
                  UEFA Champions League up to 13
                  National World Cup up to 7 games
                  Different clubs can enter cups earlier or later, based on previous achievements, also there's occasional other tournaments for specific teams like local derbies or World Clubs Cup. Either way, it's around 70 'potential' games season for most Premier league players. If the team sucks, it can shorten a lot, since there's so many knock out games.

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X