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Thread: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

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    Member Professor S's Avatar
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    Default Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...lloffame021711

    Can't post the whole article from my phone but this is beyond disappointing.

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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    Disappointing yes, but not surprising to me at all.

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    I'm a bit shocked!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    Disappointing yes, but not surprising to me at all.
    Not surprising? If I read this article correctly, he didn't make the cut to even be considered for the Hall, to be put to the final vote. Perhaps I am wrong and don't understand the process though.

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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    Well, that sucks.

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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    Not surprising? Really? It should have been a slam dunk, if not by the body of work, but by his competition this year. I think its a travesty. The article is correct.

    "In a stunning result that likely will raise questions about the enshrinement process for the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame"

    I am really disappointed that they got this wrong!!!

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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    I am upset about it too, but I didn't see him being a first ballot guy. I thought he had a good chance with the competition of this years class. For all we know, they won't put anyone in there this year off the first ballot.

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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    He wasn't a 1st ballot guy. Nique wasn't even a 1st ballot guy.

    Reggie will get in, eventually. This was too soon for him.

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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    He wasn't a 1st ballot guy. Nique wasn't even a 1st ballot guy.

    Reggie will get in, eventually. This was too soon for him.
    Pretty much what I was thinking from the day Reggie retired... Yeah, he has the "Miller moments" and those are substantial, but I always thought his per game numbers were a little lacking and his totals leaned heavy on his longevity in the league.

    Reggie does deserve enshrinement, but him not getting in on his first go around doesn't surprise me in the least.
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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    Bull hockey...and it could be worse, Knick Bavetta could still make it.

    edit - and of course I'd mention Bavetta with my 666th post.

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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    As Kstat and Gnome both said, this was probably too soon.

    His day will come though, no doubt. He does deserve it, and I'm confident one day he will be there.

    Still a tad disappointed though.
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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    I'm hoping Bernard King finally gets in. Chris Mullin is a 50/50 guy, but he's not a 1st timer either.

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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    I'm sure his time will come eventually as he DEFINITELY deserves to be in the HOF without a doubt, which we all know. But does this mean that people like Ben Wallace, Steve Nash, etc who people have debated about in recent years of if they should make the HOF or not, mean that they definitely should NOT be inducted, at least until they do something in their careers more incredible?? Something to think about there.....

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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    Steve Nash is a 2-time MVP. He goes in on the first try.

    Ben Wallace is in the same boat as Mutombo as a basket protector with a very limited offensive game. I don't think either one goes in. Dennis Rodman deserves to be in over either of them, and he's nowhere near being inducted.

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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    As I said in Peck's thread, any Hall that doesn't have Slick isn't worth our respect to begin with.

    Also, I've never understand the "not a first ballot" argument. As long as we're talking about a player who's career is over, either they deserve to make it or not. Any voting process where someone's career is not judged worthy one year but is the next, when nothing has changed in the interim, is inherently flawed.
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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    Reggie Miller is 14th All-Time in scoring, 14th! You know how many players are in the hall of fame?

    He was just recently the ALL-Time leader in 3pt made until Ray Allen. Top 10 All-time FT%. 6th All-time minutes played in the NBA. Not really fair if you ask me.

    You have other players riding coattails into the HOF like Scottie Pippen. Pippen was a good player, but didn't do much without Jordan. You may even remember the Bulls trying to make Kukoc the main guy when Jordan 1st retired.

    Not saying Pippen doesn't deserve, but it's not fair to reward guys for playing with other hall of fame, and not reward a guy in a small market that wore an S on his chest for an entire franchise.

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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    Quote Originally Posted by pwee31 View Post
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    You have other players riding coattails into the HOF like Scottie Pippen. Pippen was a good player, but didn't do much without Jordan. You may even remember the Bulls trying to make Kukoc the main guy when Jordan 1st retired.

    Not saying Pippen doesn't deserve, but it's not fair to reward guys for playing with other hall of fame, and not reward a guy in a small market that wore an S on his chest for an entire franchise.
    Pippen is heads and shoulders above Reggie Miller in every facet aside from 3-point shooting. He rode no one's coat tails. Just because he was on a team with Michael Jordan does not mean he's any less of a player.

    Oh, and in case you didn't know, Jordan never went anywhere without Pippen, either. He went 0-3 in the playoffs (swept two of those series) before the Bulls traded for Pippen on draft day.

    Reggie Miller is 14th All-Time in scoring, 14th! You know how many players are in the hall of fame?
    The all-time scoring list is proof of Reggie's great longevity, but let's not pretend he was one of the top 14 scorers of all time, or top 50, for that matter. He's a career 18ppg scorer, good for 97th in NBA history. In the playoffs, his average rises to about 21ppg, but that only gets him to 43rd. Richard Hamilton if he finds his way back to a contender, could retire as one of the top 15-20 cumulative playoff scorers of all time. Anybody think he's a hall of famer?

    He was just recently the ALL-Time leader in 3pt made until Ray Allen.
    ...3rd on the list is Jason Kidd. It's an accomplishment to be proud of, just not one NBA analysts hold in high regard. The stat itself has only been around what, 30 years? That's less than half the age of the NBA itself.

    I think Ray Allen will probably go into the HoF after a few tries, just like Reggie probably will.

    Top 10 All-time FT%.
    ...behind Scott Skiles and Peja Stojakovic. Mark Price is #2 on the list and I don't think he's gotten a single vote. Again, not a stat that's going to get you into the hall.

    6th All-time minutes played in the NBA. Not really fair if you ask me.
    This is actually the most impressive stat among the ones listed. Not many non-hall of famers in the top 20. Artis Gilmore is the only other guy with similar minutes not in the hall, and he's borderline. Payton and Kidd should get in. Cliff Robinson looks like he'll be the cut-off line at #18 if and when Reggie gets in.
    Last edited by Kstat; 02-18-2011 at 08:24 AM.

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  25. #18

    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    This is upsetting enough to make me come out of the shadows. Seriously, it's nuts how quickly people forget what a great player Reggie was.

    Exhibit A. http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ws_career.html

    Reggie is 10th all-time in win shares. You may say "what's a win share", or "10th doesn't sound all that great". Well, everyone else in the top 10 are first ballot hall-of-famers. Actually, almost all of the top 30 are first ballot hall-of-famers. Seriously, look at that list. You can't just luck into the top ten all time in win shares.

    His playoff credentials:

    #7 all time offensive win shares
    Top 20 all-time overall win shares
    Top 20 all-time scoring
    #1 all time three pointers made
    Top 10 all time free throw shooter
    #12 all time in true shooting percentage
    #11 all time in offensive rating
    #15 all time in free throws made

    As for the regular season, maybe more impressive:

    as I said earlier, #10 all time in win shares
    #2 all time in offensive rating
    #6 all time in true shooting percentage
    #14 all time in scoring
    #6 all time in Minutes played
    #2 all time in 3 pointers made
    #12 all time in free throws made
    #9 all time in free throw percentage
    #7 all time in offensive win shares

    Sorry for the long post, but if those aren't the numbers of a first ballot hall-of-famer, I don't know what are. The only thing that's missing of course is a championship ring, but, is that really a requirement to get in on the first ballot?

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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    Nice writeup in the NY Times, including quotes from Donnie.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/18/sp...html?src=twrhp

    A Big Absence: No Reggie Miller on the Hall’s List

    By JONATHAN ABRAMS

    When the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame announces its finalists for the class of 2011 on Friday, one name will be conspicuous in its absence: that of Reggie Miller, the former Indiana Pacers sharpshooter, who is in his first year of eligibility.

    Miller, 45, who retired in 2005 and will be in Los Angeles this weekend as an analyst for TNT during All-Star weekend, was not on the Hall of Fame’s list, according to a person who was made aware that Miller had not been chosen and who asked for anonymity because the results had not been made public.

    Basketball’s Hall of Fame, unlike baseball’s, seldom turns to milestones, like 3,000 hits or 300 victories, as guides to induction. It attempts to evaluate the most important contributors to the sport throughout the world, not just in the N.B.A., so it is somewhat difficult to weigh the merits of Uljana Semjonova, a women’s player from Latvia, against Dan Issel, a former All-Star and A.B.A. co-rookie of the year, although both were selected in 1993.

    Four groups from the Hall take part in the voting: the North American, the Veterans, the International and the Women’s Committees.

    To become a finalist from the North American group, nominees must receive approval on at least seven of nine ballots. The other committees require approval from at least five of the seven. To be selected for the Hall, a finalist needs at least 18 of 24 votes from what is known as the Honors Committee, a group consisting of Hall of Famers, basketball executives, members of the news media and other contributors to the game. Committee members are not aware of one another’s identities.

    At last year’s All-Star Game, Jerry Colangelo, the Hall of Fame’s chairman, defended the anonymity of the committee members. The Professional Basketball Writers Association has offered to assist in the voting process, routine in most other sports Halls of Fame, or even serve as a witness.

    “In order to have a process that’s clean, you can’t have people know who’s on the committee, because you don’t want people soliciting votes,” Colangelo said last year. “I think that’s really unhealthy. I’ll know who’s on the committee, and it will be my judgment how we get the kind of transparency I believe we need.”

    There is no limit to the number of years a candidate can be considered for induction by the various screening committees unless he does not receive a vote for three straight years. The North American Committee is allowed to put a maximum of 10 candidates before the Honors Committee each year. Each of the others is limited to two.

    The 2011 class will be announced during the Final Four of the men’s N.C.A.A. tournament in April. The induction ceremony will be in August in Springfield, Mass.

    Miller, a 6-foot-7 swingman, played his entire 18-year career with the Pacers. Members of the committee may have taken into account that he never was named a most valuable player and was not on a championship-winning team. But Miller made five All-Star teams, won an Olympic gold medal in 1996 and held the N.B.A.’s record with 2,560 3-pointers until Ray Allen of the Boston Celtics passed him last week. He averaged 18.2 points per game and led the league in free-throw percentage five times.

    Miller was also known for terrorizing the Knicks for much of the 1990s, most notably in Game 1 of the 1995 Eastern Conference semifinals, when he scored the final 8 points of the game to turn a 6-point Knicks lead with 18.7 seconds left into a Pacers victory.

    Told that Miller was not among the finalists, Donnie Walsh, the Knicks’ president but a Pacers executive when Miller played, said he was surprised.

    “I just know this, if he’s not a Hall of Fame guy, I don’t know who is,” said Walsh, who drafted Miller 11th over all out of U.C.L.A. in 1987, taking a pass on the in-state favorite Steve Alford.

    “He took a very troubled franchise and ended up in the Eastern Conference finals six times,” Walsh said of Miller. “That’s pretty impressive for a guy who weighs about 185 pounds, and in the years that he did it, he was a marked guy and he relished it. I feel very thankful to Reggie to what he did for the Pacers and I just feel he deserves that honor, whether it comes now, later or whatever.”

    Last year, 19 finalists for the Hall were announced at the All-Star Game in Arlington, Tex. Ultimately inducted were the players Cynthia Cooper-Dyke, Karl Malone and Scottie Pippen; the high school coach Bob Hurley Sr.; Jerry Buss, owner of the Lakers; the 1960 and 1992 United States Olympic teams; and, posthumously, the N.B.A. players Dennis Johnson and Gus Johnson, and the Brazilian center Maciel Pereira, known as Ubiratan.
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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    Okay, this is upsetting enough to bring me out of the shadows. There are so many reasons Reggie is a first ballot hall-of-famer.

    Exhibit A. http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ws_career.html

    Reggie is tenth all time in win shares. You might not know what a win share is, but look at that list. Every other player in the top ten, hell, most in the top 30 are first ballot guys. You don't end up 10th all time by luck.

    Not to mention:

    #2 all time in offensive rating
    #6 all time in true shooting percentage
    #7 all time in offensive win shares
    #6 all time in minutes played
    #2 all time in 3 pointers made (#1 in the playoffs by a country mile)
    #14 all time in points scored
    #9 all time in free throw percentage
    #12 in free throws made

    Oh yeah, and he had some pretty clutch performances in the playoffs.

    I'm sorry but if those aren't the credentials of a first ballot hall-of-famer, I don't know what are. Of course, the only thing he is missing is a championship ring. But, is that really a prerequisite to be a first ballot guy?

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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists


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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    Quote Originally Posted by pwee31 View Post
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    You have other players riding coattails into the HOF like Scottie Pippen. Pippen was a good player, but didn't do much without Jordan. You may even remember the Bulls trying to make Kukoc the main guy when Jordan 1st retired.
    What reality do you live in?

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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    I have always felt that you are either a hall of famer or your not. I also don't think that you have to have a long career to make the Hall. You can have a short career and still be Hall of Famer if your great enough. It's not just about the numbers. Did you have enough moments to leave a lasting impression on you legacy. I hear a name and without looking at stats, I know in my mind if they are Hall of Fame or not.

    It's all black and white to me. For Reggie its Yes. His impact on the game due to his big moments alone make him a Hall of Famer.
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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    this is deplorable.

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    Default Re: Reggie Miller Doesn't Make Cut For Hall Finalists

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    As I said in Peck's thread, any Hall that doesn't have Slick isn't worth our respect to begin with.

    Also, I've never understand the "not a first ballot" argument. As long as we're talking about a player who's career is over, either they deserve to make it or not. Any voting process where someone's career is not judged worthy one year but is the next, when nothing has changed in the interim, is inherently flawed.
    Thank you! Why make a player wait... especially if he's had a better career than the other nominees? It doesn't make much sense at all. That should be the only reason a player doesn't make it on the first ballot - because there are more deserving players on the nomination list.

    The Dominique argument is stupid too! He should have been inducted on the first ballot. This is a complete and utter shock to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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