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Thread: Darren Collison midseason grade

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Darren Collison midseason grade

    Honestly I'd have to give him a C. I've been rather unimpressed. And this is from somebody who wanted him bad enough to take Okafor with him.

    He is way too careless with the ball. And he gives a really bad effort on defense at times. I was hoping for a lot more. I knew he could score. TJ and AJ can score. But I thought he would be a better decision maker than those guys, and he's not. He still has great potential, but he needs to bring more intensity to the arena.

    He looks like a potential great back up PG to me. I'm still on the fence about his PG of the future status.

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    Default Re: Darren Collison midseason grade

    Quote Originally Posted by Scot Pollard View Post
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    there never seemed to be an issue at the point before he went on a slump

    his defense isnt as bad as people make it seem

    he does his best and will improve it more

    not directed towards you tflo but are people not watching games because it sounds to me that people arent aware of what these players are doing

    we're getting there and we're in great shape

    man theres always a complaint about someone or something and its usually something minor that someone (darren collison is one guy this time) with the small slump

    hes a really good pg and i cant believe people are putting him down so much meanwhile he was a big fan favorite here

    please relax
    I completely adree with you,Darren Collison is a very good Point Guard but there comes a time when size makes a differents, I think Brandon could help.

  3. #28

    Default Re: Darren Collison midseason grade

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    For God's sake, he's definitely A LOT better than TJ with a jumpshot. And that is an understatement. Darren would be and should be offended by that.

    He doesn't milk the clock for 20 seconds per possession, he has three point shooting ability, he is much better on the break, he is ridiculously and insanely better than TJ at the rim and attacking the paint, he is younger and has potential to improve, he is quicker than TJ, he looks natural with the ball in his hands, he plays with much more emotion, he doesn't take insanely bad shots, he shoots a higher percentage, he isn't scared to make a pass into the post, and most importantly he is significantly better with the PnR. For God's sake that comparison is ridiculous. It's a ****ing two game slump.
    He doesn't make the same stupid decision over and over and over again either..


    Also, for those believing that an average starting PG won't win a championship..I don't agree. It's much more important to have leadership and the ability to run a team than it is to have an All Star at the point. Look at the past champions. Even the All stars (Parker and Billups..Rondo wasn't at the time) We're even the third best players on their team..

    If Paul George because the superstar we hope (think) he can be, and we get a very good PF (or Josh develops into one) My guess is either Collison or Price will be good enough.

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  5. #29

    Default Re: Darren Collison midseason grade

    The slump wiped everyone's memory of when he was usually looking like the best player on the team. He turns the ball over a lot? Even the elite point guards in the NBA have have those kinds of games where they turn over the ball a lot it happens, especially to the ones that dominate the ball. He's averaging 2.5...and the past 9 games he's been averaging 3.2..pretty typical average of most point guards who dominate the ball elite or not. It could be way worse. He can't find people?...I just don't know how people are getting that....The guy just looks to score a decent amount. He's a scorer. but on top of that he does find people...I dunno what else to say. lol. He had 9 assists last game What do you want from him? lol. Wait.. you know what? You negative guys are right. How about we trade Darren and look to sign Jesus long term. lol

    ....anyway I say B+

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  7. #30
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    Default Re: Darren Collison midseason grade

    Quote Originally Posted by tflo View Post
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    I completely adree with you,Darren Collison is a very good Point Guard but there comes a time when size makes a differents, I think Brandon could help.
    Brandon Rush has no handles. He'd get eaten alive on the offensive end by guys like Rose and Williams.

  8. #31
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    Default Re: Darren Collison midseason grade

    Quote Originally Posted by Gold View Post
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    The slump wiped everyone's memory of when he was usually looking like the best player on the team. He turns the ball over a lot? Even the elite point guards in the NBA have have those kinds of games where they turn over the ball a lot it happens, especially to the ones that dominate the ball. He's averaging 2.5...and the past 9 games he's been averaging 3.2..pretty typical average of most point guards who dominate the ball elite or not. It could be way worse. He can't find people?...I just don't know how people are getting that....The guy just looks to score a decent amount. He's a scorer. but on top of that he does find people...I dunno what else to say. lol. He had 9 assists last game What do you want from him? lol. Wait.. you know what? You negative guys are right. How about we trade Darren and look to sign Jesus long term. lol

    ....anyway I say B+
    i think Jesus would take up all the cap space..


    DC is careless at times with the ball. he has been given a pass with JOB being around. Obrien has been so frustrating for many that we cannot even begin to truly evaluate our players in his wacky rotational perimeter oriented motion offense with James posey playin SF.. wtf.

    anyways, with obrien gone wanted to hear some comments on our big offseason acquisition.

    i like DC's play, and was hoping to land him as much as anyone over the offseason.

    he is better offensively than i thought he would be, and worse defensively than i expected. but i do like his work ethic and desire for the game imho.

  9. #32
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    Default Re: Darren Collison midseason grade

    He's too small and that hurts him on defense... it'll definitely be more telling in a playoff situation than it is during the reg season.

    Offense. I like some of the things he does... he certainly has a knack for hitting a 10ft pullup in the lane.

    He's just average to me... maybe slightly above. Theres better point guards out there, and we'll probably need one of them to become a serious contender in the near future. He's definitely not franchise material or anything like that.



    I'll give him a C+

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    Default Re: Darren Collison midseason grade

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    Brandon Rush has no handles. He'd get eaten alive on the offensive end by guys like Rose and Williams.
    who wouldnt??? If we were still running motion offense I would have liked to see him play pg. He would have been a good pg in JOB's system.

  11. #34

    Default Re: Darren Collison midseason grade

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerPride31 View Post
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    i think Jesus would take up all the cap space..


    DC is careless at times with the ball. he has been given a pass with JOB being around. Obrien has been so frustrating for many that we cannot even begin to truly evaluate our players in his wacky rotational perimeter oriented motion offense with James posey playin SF.. wtf.

    anyways, with obrien gone wanted to hear some comments on our big offseason acquisition.

    i like DC's play, and was hoping to land him as much as anyone over the offseason.

    he is better offensively than i thought he would be, and worse defensively than i expected. but i do like his work ethic and desire for the game imho.
    It would be well worth it. He'd be the flawless pg we all desire



    ....but if he has to commit a bunch of turnovers for our sins, we'll be in trouble though.

  12. #35
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    Default Re: Darren Collison midseason grade

    B- What I hope to see over the summer is a noticeable improvement in his ball handling.
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

  13. #36

    Default Re: Darren Collison midseason grade

    Quote Originally Posted by FireTheCoach View Post
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    He's too small and that hurts him on defense... it'll definitely be more telling in a playoff situation than it is during the reg season.

    Offense. I like some of the things he does... he certainly has a knack for hitting a 10ft pullup in the lane.

    He's just average to me... maybe slightly above. Theres better point guards out there, and we'll probably need one of them to become a serious contender in the near future. He's definitely not franchise material or anything like that.



    I'll give him a C+
    I think "if" we make the playoffs everybody will come back to reality. I am ok with DC but I am not going to act like he is going to make some huge leap in his ability from year 2 to 3. Size will always hurt him defensively and it will be magnified in the playoffs.

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    Default Re: Darren Collison midseason grade

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    B

    He's struggled a bit, but part of that is because he was never a good fit in O'Brien's offense. It's become clear that his limitations are always going to be his limitations--he's small and can get pushed around fairly easily. It is what it is. I think he can improve and will improve, and the past few games aside, I've been pleased with him so far.
    Yep. His defense has been worse than I expected (some say he's terrible, I must just not see what they see, but I wouldn't say it's good, either), but he's a good shooter, fast as hell, and a terrific finisher. He'll never be confused with Jamaal Tinsley in the passing department, but he's willing and able when he draws the defense.

    The other thing is, he's so good that I often forget he was a rookie last season. That's impressive in and of itself.

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    Default Re: Darren Collison midseason grade

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Give TJ a better jumpshot and that is exactly what he is.
    I don't agree. DC can finish very well, whereas TJ sucks at finishing.

    *edit* BringJackBack already had it covered.

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  17. #39
    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Darren Collison midseason grade

    Also, DC comes at a much, much cheaper price and DC didn't have Troy Murphy to pad his assist numbers with. That is pretty much the only play TJ could make; The pass to the trailing three.

  18. #40

    Default Re: Darren Collison midseason grade

    I don't like grades, so let's put it this way.

    The PG is the most important position on the floor. That said, we have a very young team without a bona fide superstar. Nothing wrong with their of those things.

    But given those attributes, why spend precious treasure on a too small floor general whose basketball intelligence is arguably below average?

    Like holding on to O'Brien at least a year too long (actually re-signed him for crying out loud), Bird made the wrong move at the wrong time. Not smart.

    Is Collison good? Pretty good. For a guy that's too small and doesn't create all that well. Fairly good shooter. But that's what we need at SG, isn't it?

  19. #41
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    Default Re: Darren Collison midseason grade

    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskeyjim View Post
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    I don't like grades, so let's put it this way.

    The PG is the most important position on the floor. That said, we have a very young team without a bona fide superstar. Nothing wrong with their of those things.

    But given those attributes, why spend precious treasure on a too small floor general whose basketball intelligence is arguably below average?

    Like holding on to O'Brien at least a year too long (actually re-signed him for crying out loud), Bird made the wrong move at the wrong time. Not smart.

    Is Collison good? Pretty good. For a guy that's too small and doesn't create all that well. Fairly good shooter. But that's what we need at SG, isn't it?
    what is it you mean by "precious treasure"? if referring to cap space we do not have to decide for two more seasons. DC is on his rookie contract at this time.

    i disagree that Bird made the wrong move though. Who exactly wanted to come here and coach? Up until the DC trade there was not much too be positive for when your starting PF is Troy Murphy. With strong play recently from younger players and now cap space Indiana is a more attractive location for a solid coach to come in and take over. if there were better options than Obrien last offseason i would like to know who they were. byron scott was not coming here, although if hindsight were 20/20..

  20. #42

    Default Re: Darren Collison midseason grade

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerPride31 View Post
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    what is it you mean by "precious treasure"? if referring to cap space we do not have to decide for two more seasons. DC is on his rookie contract at this time.
    You seem to be implying DC didn't cost the team anything to get. Well, he didn't come free.

    i disagree that Bird made the wrong move though. Who exactly wanted to come here and coach? Up until the DC trade there was not much too be positive for when your starting PF is Troy Murphy. With strong play recently from younger players and now cap space Indiana is a more attractive location for a solid coach to come in and take over. if there were better options than Obrien last offseason i would like to know who they were. byron scott was not coming here, although if hindsight were 20/20..
    Your argument here seems to be that Bird was forced to allow the existing coach to run the team into the ground because he could find no coach in the USA who looked at the talent on the Indiana Pacers, and saw nothing but opportunity.

    Luckily, he found one in his own staff. So that said, I disagree. The primary thing boxing Bird in last summer was his thinking. He obviously now agrees, because little changed between now and then other than Indiana's dismal record between then and now, and opportunity lost to get players off the bench and into the game.

    The proof to you should be in player comments; that Bird obviously had little idea of how his team viewed the ineffectiveness of the coach is gob-smacking, and illustrates an all too common lack of communication by upper management with little or no real management experience. No, we may love Larry Bird. We may love his contribution to the game. We may even agree with his strategy on resurrecting the team. But a major part of responsibility for the Indiana Pacer struggles this year must lie with him. I believe if you asked him, he'd agree.

  21. #43
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    Default Re: Darren Collison midseason grade

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskeyjim View Post
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    You seem to be implying DC didn't cost the team anything to get. Well, he didn't come free.
    actually it was better than free, we got rid of murphy and saved about 5M.



    Your argument here seems to be that Bird was forced to allow the existing coach to run the team into the ground because he could find no coach in the USA who looked at the talent on the Indiana Pacers, and saw nothing but opportunity.

    Luckily, he found one in his own staff. So that said, I disagree. The primary thing boxing Bird in last summer was his thinking. He obviously now agrees, because little changed between now and then other than Indiana's dismal record between then and now, and opportunity lost to get players off the bench and into the game.

    The proof to you should be in player comments; that Bird obviously had little idea of how his team viewed the ineffectiveness of the coach is gob-smacking, and illustrates an all too common lack of communication by upper management with little or no real management experience. No, we may love Larry Bird. We may love his contribution to the game. We may even agree with his strategy on resurrecting the team. But a major part of responsibility for the Indiana Pacer struggles this year must lie with him. I believe if you asked him, he'd agree.
    then again, we kept obrien and upgraded our roster, and now this season as opposed to last we may be able to market a solid coach. if we had done that last year we may not have acquired as good a coach as we will this offseason if Vogel is not retained.

    i think there is more to it than meets the eye than just saying Bird shoulda fired Obrien and brought in anyone with a pulse to coach this team with very little assets prior to the DC trade.. regardless of your opinion on DC he was a huge acquisition for this team and removed murphy from the equation.

  22. #44
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    Default Re: Darren Collison midseason grade

    Darren gets a solid b-plus from me.

    He's a second year player, he gets a bit of lee-way. That having been said he has been amazing on the offensive end at times, and is a great shooter. His defense will never be amazing due to size, but he has some work to do there, but if college is any indication he should eventually be at least average there.

    The guy has been our second or third best player all season, and were much improved from past years.

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