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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Holy crap, Hibbert unloads to Kravitz about O'Brien

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  • #1

    Holy crap, Hibbert unloads to Kravitz about O'Brien

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2011...estions-remain

    Written by
    Bob Kravitz

    Please excuse me if I haven't yet called for the commissioning of a sculptor to chisel Frank Vogel's likeness outside Conseco Fieldhouse. Nor have I jumped just yet to compare him with young Red Auerbach, or done the math to figure out when he'll pass NBA record-holder Don Nelson for coaching victories.

    Maybe next week.

    For all of the Indiana Pacers' improvement, for all the strides they've taken physically, emotionally and spiritually, they've still just beaten one team with a .500 or better record under Vogel -- and that team, Portland, was missing several starters.

    I want to see them do this for more than three weeks. I want to see them go on the road and beat good teams. I want to see them fight through an injury before making the case for Vogel as Pacers Coach for Perpetuity.

    And so, I would assume, do team president Larry Bird and friends. There's a very good reason they're not going to rip off the interim tag and make Vogel the full-time guy before the end of the season: It would be completely insane.

    Look, there's a lot to love about Vogel, and not in any creepy kind of way. He has been the tonic for the troops, the perfect guy at the perfect time. They needed positive energy like Charlie Sheen requires rehab. He has come in, been brash and bold and relentlessly positive, and it has made a dramatic impression on a group that was emotionally beaten almost beyond repair by "Happy'' Jim O'Brien.

    I love that he's talking about not only making the playoffs, but doing something significant in the postseason. I love that he's positive, even after a wrenching loss like the one his team suffered Tuesday night against Miami at the sold-out fieldhouse. I love that that he has rational rotations, and goes deep into his bench, and plays his young guys, and has brought Dahntay Jones back from the basketball dead.

    Listen to Roy Hibbert after the Miami loss:

    "We can be a good team this year, and we are a good team this year,'' Hibbert said passionately. "We know that now.''

    He was asked when he started to feel that way.

    "As soon as coach O'Brien departed,'' he said quickly. "Frank got us going. The first thing we talked about was 'believe.' Believe we could win now, this season, as opposed to next year. Everybody is talking about having 20 million (dollars) in (salary) cap space this summer, people being moved before the trade deadline . . . Hey, we're a capable team, which we showed that first month-and-a-half before things got away from us. But it's in the players' hands now.

    "Since he's gone, I feel like I'm not stuck in a box anymore in terms of what I'm able to do on the court. I have more freedom. If I make a mistake, there's no more looking at the bench and wondering if I'm coming out. My confidence has gone through the roof. Everybody's confidence has gone through the roof.''

    Let me tell you something: It wasn't just Hibbert.

    At some level, O'Brien was driving them all crazy, whether it was his lack of communication, his imperious personal style or his haphazard personnel rotations. It was particularly galling for the younger players, who never knew if they were coming or going.

    We only heard the public stuff, O'Brien diminishing Josh McRoberts last year for a great effort in a one-sided game -- "irrelevant,'' he called it. Or when he addressed talk of Hibbert's burgeoning Most Improved Player candidacy this year by verbally dousing that flame. (Big guys are historically sensitive souls; it's no surprise Hibbert went in the tank shortly after that story.)

    Behind the scenes, behind closed doors, it was even worse. And it was every day. Every . . . freaking . . . day. Same voice, same criticisms, same negative energy.

    It was destroying his players.

    Makes you wonder why they didn't pull the plug on O'Brien even earlier, doesn't it?

    This is where I roll out the but . . .

    But it's still the honeymoon. Remember the honeymoon? It was all puppies and balloons and heart-shaped chocolates. In the first blush of love, everything is fresh and new and possible. Vogel (hearts) his players and his players (heart) Vogel. It's been like Valentine's Day for three weeks around here.

    What I'm saying is, wait until they find out that Vogel leaves the toilet seat up all the time. Wait until Vogel finds out that some of his players snore uncontrollably. This won't last. This can't last. Not like this, anyway.

    Let's see what this group does when the schedule gets a little bit rougher in the coming month.

    This has been a soft stretch, something Vogel will readily concede. It was also the perfect time to make the change; the schedule, plus the fact Feb. 15 was a big season-ticket renewal date.

    I like what I see so far.

    I just want to see a little bit more of it before the Hall of Fame candidacy begins. You understand.


    ************************************************** *****

    Good Lord.

    Not something that is earth shattering to say the least and obviously Bob was leading him down the path towards this line of conversation but wow.

    I mean even for those of you who hate Bob you still have to understand he used quotes here and his job is on the line as well as his career if he falsified any of this.

    So my guess is this is real.

    We knew it was bad, how bad do you think it really was?


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Holy crap, Hibbert unloads to Kravitz about O'Brien

    and from the way he said it, it wasnt Bob that asked the question, there were others around to hear it.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Holy crap, Hibbert unloads to Kravitz about O'Brien

      Roy was far kinder than I would have been.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Holy crap, Hibbert unloads to Kravitz about O'Brien

        I wouldn't exactly call that 'unloading'. It was said in a professional way and I don't think he said anything other than confirmed what was already known... or at least known in the sense you had to be crazy to not see it whether it was put into words or not.
        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

        ------

        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

        -John Wooden

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Holy crap, Hibbert unloads to Kravitz about O'Brien

          Originally posted by Peck;

          We knew it was bad, how bad do you think it really was?
          It was worse than will ever fully come out publicly.
          "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

          -Lance Stephenson

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Holy crap, Hibbert unloads to Kravitz about O'Brien

            What a sissy...........
            @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Holy crap, Hibbert unloads to Kravitz about O'Brien

              That's as close as you are likely to get publicly, but I'd wager that there's a lot of people in the locker room that wouldn't pee on JOB if he was on fire...
              http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
              "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Holy crap, Hibbert unloads to Kravitz about O'Brien

                It is interesting that when O. B. was first fired everyone was spouting diplomatic measured comments but as time goes by the true feelings of the players are seeping out more and more.

                As most people on here new already, and the players are now starting to confirm, the opinion of O.B. in the locker room was less than flattering.

                To put it bluntly they hated they way he coached and feel like they have been released from a hard labor prison camp.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Holy crap, Hibbert unloads to Kravitz about O'Brien

                  If Roy or any of the other players actually did decide to unload, it would get very ugly.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Holy crap, Hibbert unloads to Kravitz about O'Brien

                    Originally posted by Larry Staverman View Post
                    It is interesting that when O. B. was first fired everyone was spouting diplomatic measured comments but as time goes by the true feelings of the players are seeping out more and more.

                    As most people on here new already, and the players are now starting to confirm, the opinion of O.B. in the locker room was less than flattering.

                    To put it bluntly they hated they way he coached and feel like they have been released from a hard labor prison camp.
                    I said this a long time ago, but the players are not stupid. They have been around basketball their entire lives. It is fair to say, they know the game, and they know the general way it should be played and coached.

                    They knew O'Brien was holding them back as a team.

                    The off-the-court stuff was bad, but it was the on-the-court stuff that was the real problem.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Holy crap, Hibbert unloads to Kravitz about O'Brien

                      Pacers are a completely different team than they were 3 weeks ago and the only change was the head coach - so yeah that is the reason for the change. I am anxious to find out what the new normal is for this team though. Is this it? This is pretty good. Is it a notch below this? even that would be pretty good.

                      I'll be facinated to see how they come back after the allstar break. Sometimes teams come back from not being together and not practicing for a few days different than before.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Holy crap, Hibbert unloads to Kravitz about O'Brien

                        Mark Voile said yesterday on the radio that "JOB is an smart basketball coach but his issue is that he believes more in his system than the players" it thought it was amazing that even a Pacers insider knew this and Larry didn't do anything.
                        @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Holy crap, Hibbert unloads to Kravitz about O'Brien

                          That was certainly not unloading, and certainly not a "holy crap" unloading. He just said a similar thing that T said when they asked him.

                          I hate how it's not okay for the players to express themselves but coaches and owners say some crazy ****.
                          Protect the Promise!!!!

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Holy crap, Hibbert unloads to Kravitz about O'Brien

                            Originally posted by HOOPFANATIC View Post
                            I hate how it's not okay for the players to express themselves but coaches and owners say some crazy ****.
                            They are free to say whatever they want.

                            They choose to be political. It is good for their bank accounts.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Holy crap, Hibbert unloads to Kravitz about O'Brien

                              There has never been a doubt in my mind that the 2 things that kept Jimmy from being fired earlier was stubborness and money... Bird's stubborness and Herb having to pay 2 coaches.

                              We can debate the issue of Jimmy's team option being picked up as a way not to make Jimmy a lameduck coach last year until the cows come home, but w/o a doubt that was a MAJOR BLUNDER OF MONUMENTAL PROPORTIONS by Bird.

                              Comment

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