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Thread: The Wing Question

  1. #1

    Default The Wing Question

    People have been talking about this in different threads, but I personally go back and fourth.

    We have Paul George, Mike Dunleavy, Brandon Rush, and Dahntay Jones all deserving of minutes, so what should Frank do?

    I think everyone agrees that Paul George should get to play, that's not a question. The remaining three guys all have positives and negatives about them.

    Personally, I think it's abundantly clear that the starting backcourt (DC, Dun, Danny) is terrible defensively, and if we want to win games..that has to change. DC and Dun aren't terrible defenders because of lack of effort. They just get beat.

    Which means I think we need to either put Dahntay or Rush in the starting spot.

    I think you go with Rush for pretty obvious reasons. He's good at passing into the post, he's more passive and can hit the three (although apparently Dahntay can too) Paul George might already be the better player, but I want to bring on a young rookie slowly.

    I think Dahntay would drive DC nuts, personally. (Especially when Dahntay gets the ball, dribbles it down the court, dribbles for a couple of seconds and then takes the shot...by the third time DJones does that, DC will look like ...)

    So essentially, I want to bring PG on slowly, we need a defensive player, and I don't think DC and Dahntay would work out. So I think Rush is the obvious answer.

    I'm also not sure of whether Vogel should do it slowly, or not.

    So now what about the second unit. Dahntay or Dun?

    I kept saying that I think Dun would be really good in the second unit, that he would help the offense significantly.

    But it seems pretty clear from what I've heard the players in that unit say, they like being the gritty defensive minded "smashmouth" unit. Dun doesn't fit with that at all. To me, that's completely Dahntay. And not to mention, Dahntay is pretty clearly outplaying Dun.

    Then of course, instead of doing and either or, we could use both situationally. But I think that second unit especially, needs to create some chemistry, so moving guys in and out of it might hurt it.

    So, what does everyone else think? I'm one of the few that really likes what Dun brings to the table. But I think, right now at least, it'd be best if we went with PG/Brandon/Dahntay.

    Anyway, I'm also interested in seeing what Vogel was do. It's so much more fun to be interested than to dread..

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  3. #2
    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Wing Question

    I think George is ready to start. At this point I want to go with:

    George (28-34 minutes)/Jones/Rush
    Granger (32-36 minutes)/Rush/George

    I'm just throwing that stuff out there. I love Mike, but I think he doesn't fit into the smashmouth attitude and he's been very inconsistent recently.. He might be traded as well. The ball movement might suffer though.

  4. #3

    Default Re: The Wing Question

    Go for broke and start George. Develop the kid now and see what we have. No need to save him. If he screws up so be it.

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    Default Re: The Wing Question

    Seat Mike, he won't be here next year anyway, play the guys that are going to be here in the future.

  6. #5
    Member spazzxb's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Wing Question

    Rush was losing his spot in the rotation before he got injured. Personally given his inconsistency I will trust the coach to decide the amount of minutes he has earned . The Rush/Dun debate is nothing I want to be part of.

    George just keeps looking better and better every game. If this continues to be the case I think George gets the start soon, he is already getting and earning the most minutes at the 2 (at least sometimes).

  7. #6

    Default Re: The Wing Question

    we need to work with him.

  8. #7

    Default Re: The Wing Question

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    Rush was losing his spot in the rotation before he got injured. Personally given his inconsistency I will trust the coach to decide the amount of minutes he has earned . The Rush/Dun debate is nothing I want to be part of.

    George just keeps looking better and better every game. If this continues to be the case I think George gets the start soon, he is already getting and earning the most minutes at the 2 (at least sometimes).
    It's going to be argued that Rush's performance was all due to JOB. Let's see if that is true.

  9. #8
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    Default Re: The Wing Question

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    It's going to be argued that Rush's performance was all due to JOB. Let's see if that is true.
    your right it will. I am just saying whatever the new coach wants to do with him for now is fine with me.

  10. #9

    Default Re: The Wing Question

    I don't feel that Rush's "inconsistency" would hurt the starters.

    He is consistently a very very good defender. Which is what the starting backcourt needs. And he's consistently a good shooter, and heck..if he just plays defense, passes the ball in the post, and makes his open threes..all stuff he does consistently, I'm okay with him not being aggressive all the time.

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  12. #10

    Default Re: The Wing Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I don't feel that Rush's "inconsistency" would hurt the starters.

    He is consistently a very very good defender. Which is what the starting backcourt needs. And he's consistently a good shooter, and heck..if he just plays defense, passes the ball in the post, and makes his open threes..all stuff he does consistently, I'm okay with him not being aggressive all the time.
    Sounds like a recipe for getting behind in the first quarter.

    Doesn't always attempt the open threes and passes into traffic because he doesn't want the shot..

  13. #11
    The Nite Owl LA_Confidential's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Wing Question

    The only wing question that needs to be answered is bbq or buffalo?

    In all seriousness I honestly believe that whatever production we can get out of Dunleavy, we can get out of Rush plus Defense. So to answer the question of who should be jettisoned, its Mike.

  14. #12

    Default Re: The Wing Question

    Quote Originally Posted by LA_Confidential View Post
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    The only wing question that needs to be answered is bbq or buffalo?

    In all seriousness I honestly believe that whatever production we can get out of Dunleavy, we can get out of Rush plus Defense. So to answer the question of who should be jettisoned, its Mike.
    Dun is fantastic at moving without the ball. That's something Rush doesn't do. It's one of the reasons I've suggested moving Dun to the second unit (but now I'm questioning that) because they are so bad at it.

  15. #13
    On the Vogel Wagon gummy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Wing Question

    I don't know. I'd like to see Brandon under Vogel for sure, but I'm OK with sticking with what is working for now. Sounds like Brandon and Coach V are on the same page (clear communication, woot!):

    http://www.indystar.com/article/20110212/SPORTS04/102120380/1004/SPORTS/Notebook-Rush-stays-patient-return-from-injury?odyssey=nav|head

    Indiana Pacers swingman Brandon Rush knows he has a steep climb to get his spot back in the rotation.

    Rush dressed Friday against the Minnesota Timberwolves for the second time since returning from his sprained right ankle. He didn't play.

    "It's definitely an uphill battle for me," Rush said. "Everybody is playing well. Dahntay (Jones) is coming off the bench playing good and so is Paul (George)."
    Pacers interim coach Frank Vogel plans to keep the same rotation for now because of how well the team is playing. The Pacers are 6-1 under Vogel.

    "I don't look at him being beat out in any way, shape or form," Vogel said. "I just look at it as, he's getting back from an injury. His ankle is feeling healthy, but there's an element of conditioning and timing that comes along with getting back. We'll try to bring him along slow because we're going well."

    Jones and George have done an excellent job backing up starters Danny Granger and Mike Dunleavy.

    Rush said Vogel was direct about his current role.

    "He told me to be patient and whoever is not playing well, he won't have a problem subbing me in for them," Rush said. "My time will come again. I'm not worried about it."
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    Default Re: The Wing Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Dun is fantastic at moving without the ball. That's something Rush doesn't do. It's one of the reasons I've suggested moving Dun to the second unit (but now I'm questioning that) because they are so bad at it.
    Running around like crazy was part of JOB offense, I don't think you need that with Vogel because everything is more simple.

  17. #15

    Default Re: The Wing Question

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Running around like crazy was part of JOB offense, I don't think you need that with Vogel because everything is more simple.
    Player movement is always important in any offense.

    I'm obviously on the fence, I like Dun..I like what he brings. But For me at least, I think at the end of the day he should be the fifth wing.
    Last edited by Sookie; 02-12-2011 at 03:02 PM.

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  19. #16

    Default Re: The Wing Question

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Running around like crazy was part of JOB offense, I don't think you need that with Vogel because everything is more simple.
    Moving without the ball is a key element in anyone's system. Maybe more so in O'Briens but you are less effective in any system if you are not moving - even a simple one like Vogel's. It's always harder to guard someone who is moving as opposed to someone who is standing still. Everyone on the Pacers are moving better without the ball now. Let's hope it stays that way.

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  21. #17
    The Nite Owl LA_Confidential's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Wing Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Dun is fantastic at moving without the ball. That's something Rush doesn't do. It's one of the reasons I've suggested moving Dun to the second unit (but now I'm questioning that) because they are so bad at it.
    Ive also suggested that Mike come in with the second unit, to be more of a facilitator and also to keep AJ from being so trigger happy. But I think that is AJ's role on the team, to come in and try to score so . I hate hearing that Rush is inconsistent, well the whole team was inconsistent 2-3 weeks ago. Rush is the only guy we have yet to see clock any real minutes under Coach Vogel.

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    Default Re: The Wing Question

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. What we are doing is working. I see no reason to change things up until we start to see potential problems.

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    Default Re: The Wing Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Player movement is always important in any offense.
    Of course, my point is that I don't see Dunleavy running as much, maybe because they are feeding Roy and DC has the ball in his hand more often? or maybe because Vogel is no calling that many plays for Mike?
    Last edited by vnzla81; 02-12-2011 at 03:09 PM.

  24. #20
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Wing Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Player movement is always important in any offense.

    I'm obviously on the fence, I like Dun..I like what he brings. But For me at least, I think at the end of the day he should be the fifth wing.
    I agree Mike should be the 5th wing primarily because he will likley not be here next year. I would not expect Vogel to make a move like this until after the trade deadline though because Mike is probably the guy were trying to move and benching him permanently would lower his value a little.

    I would like to see what Rush can do as well under Vogel, and his defense is sorely needed with the first unit.

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  26. #21

    Default Re: The Wing Question

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Running around like crazy was part of JOB offense, I don't think you need that with Vogel because everything is more simple.
    Reggie ran around like crazy and it worked for him.

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    Default Re: The Wing Question

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    Reggie ran around like crazy and it worked for him.
    Mike is no Reggie

  28. #23
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    Default Re: The Wing Question

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Mike is no Reggie
    I think the point is that moving without the ball isn't only an asset in O'Brien's system.

  29. #24

    Default Re: The Wing Question

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Mike is no Reggie
    That's your answer?

    The point is to run around like crazy to get open. Guys who stay in one spot can easily be defended.

  30. #25
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Wing Question

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    That's your answer?

    The point is to run around like crazy to get open. Guys who stay in one spot can easily be defended.
    That answer was extremely good.

    Mike is barely a starter on an average team...in his prime. Reggie was usually one of the very best SG's in the league for years. Mike has never played in an NBA playoff game in his life. Reggie led his team to the playoffs for years.

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