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Thread: Frank Vogel's "System" of Playing Common Sense Basketball....can it continue???

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    Default Frank Vogel's "System" of Playing Common Sense Basketball....can it continue???

    The Pacers will be surprising alot of NBA teams that have previously beaten us. They ALL know that we're capable of beating them (and we have beaten the Lakers, Celtics, and Heat in the past). What we've always lacked was consistency and continuity of playing fundamental basketball each and every game. We've always lived and died by the 3pt shot. This style of play would have been disastrous in the playoffs resulting in a 4-1 or 4-0 sweep. Now, Frank's system may have changed our chances of competing for at least six or seven games in a future playoff series against any opponent.

    Frank has kept it simple and the team is focused on these NEW team goals:

    1. Make a concerted effort to attack the rim all game long
    2. Look for Hibbert/Hans/Josh in the low post & early in the shot clock
    3. Win the rebound battle using our Team's height advantage
    4. Increase our free throws (which happens from attacking the rim)
    5. Be patient on offense and stop chucking up 3 pointers
    6. Run simple plays on offense; low post/pick-n-roll/inside-out (in this order)
    7. Relentless team defensive pressure to create turnovers and easy buckets (i.e. dunks)

    Once we add B. Rush and L. Stephenson to the mix, I ONLY see us getting better and better at achieving ALL of the above team goals. Our defense will get better with the more athletic Rush and Stephenson as well as our ability to attack the rim, team rebound, and post up (Lance against smaller PGs) for higher percentage shots. Our bench is also much deeper than some teams in the Eastern Conference. We haven't used Lance Stephenson or Brandon Rush or TJ Ford or Solo in these last four games. I have a sneaking suspicion that they would ALL play well in Frank Vogel's "system" of playing "common sense" basketball.

    Just saying.....
    Last edited by TooBigNdaPaint; 02-06-2011 at 09:32 PM.

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Frank Vogel's "System" of Playing Common Sense Basketball....can it continue???

    Getting a bounce from a coaching change is not exactly unusual. Especially when (by coincidence or not) your first few games are against awful teams.

    And JoB showed a lot of basketball IQ. Clock is ticking when a coach gets hired. Best of luck to him.

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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel's "System" of Playing Common Sense Basketball....can it continue???

    Quote Originally Posted by danman View Post
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    And JoB showed a lot of basketball IQ.
    More like an idiot-savant.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Member PR07's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel's "System" of Playing Common Sense Basketball....can it continue???

    I don't see why not. We will probably start losing some games against the better teams, but at least we won't lose to the teams that we should beat which we had been doing previously.

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    Member idioteque's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel's "System" of Playing Common Sense Basketball....can it continue???

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    I don't see why not. We will probably start losing some games against the better teams, but at least we won't lose to the teams that we should beat which we had been doing previously.
    This is not really true. The Pacers have a great record against bad teams this year. The problem has been against other mid tier teams like the Philly and Milwaukee. We also have upset very few teams this year.
    Last edited by idioteque; 02-06-2011 at 10:18 PM.

  8. #6

    Default Re: Frank Vogel's "System" of Playing Common Sense Basketball....can it continue???

    Quote Originally Posted by danman View Post
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    Getting a bounce from a coaching change is not exactly unusual. Especially when (by coincidence or not) your first few games are against awful teams.

    And JoB showed a lot of basketball IQ. Clock is ticking when a coach gets hired. Best of luck to him.
    He put Posey against Griffin, Amare, and Przybilla. There is no defense to that show 'basketball IQ'.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel's "System" of Playing Common Sense Basketball....can it continue???

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    More like an idiot-savant.
    Well, more idiot than savant... if you ask me.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel's "System" of Playing Common Sense Basketball....can it continue???

    Quote Originally Posted by TooBigNdaPaint View Post
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    ...Once we add B. Rush and L. Stephenson to the mix, I ONLY see us getting better and better at achieving ALL of the above team goals. Our defense will get better with the more athletic Rush and Stephenson as well as our ability to attack the rim, team rebound, and post up (Lance against smaller PGs) for higher percentage shots. Our bench is also much deeper than some teams in the Eastern Conference. We haven't used Lance Stephenson or Brandon Rush or TJ Ford or Solo in these last four games. I have a sneaking suspicion that they would ALL play well in Frank Vogel's "system" of playing "common sense" basketball.
    I think your goals are a very good statement of how the Pacers are approaching the game.

    I don't really know how much Rush and Stephenson will add to accomplishing the goals, although I am very anxious to see both play for Vogel.

    For one thing, I am not nearly as concerned with Stephenson getting lost in the offense when he finally does get his chance. But, Let's don't kid ourselves into thinking that our defense will be better with Stephenson on the floor; he has never been recognized for his defensive prowess. A concern that I have is whether Stephenson can handle the PG position without another PG, or at least another backcourt facilitator, on the floor with him. Despite team claims to the contrary, I have never considered Stephenson to be a potential PG; my perspective is that his mindset was 100% SG.

  12. #9

    Default Re: Frank Vogel's "System" of Playing Common Sense Basketball....can it continue???

    I'm not really interested in rehashing his tenure right now. Seen enough of it and a lot of emotion washing over the board.

    Not saying I agreed with everything he did, but i think he was a very solid coach in a lot of ways. By the end, the players weren't on board any more, so the switch was inevitable.

    And of course, there was Hib's funk, the nail in the coffin. That JoB's fault? Hurt Roy's confidence? Maybe. Diff guys need different handling, but I'm not sure how Hib's horrorshow was all on JoB.

    Anyway, hope springs eternal. Maybe I just need to attend more games with my son. We're something like 8-1.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel's "System" of Playing Common Sense Basketball....can it continue???

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    This is not really true. The Pacers have a great record against bad teams this year. The problem has been against other mid tier teams like the Philly and Milwaukee. We also have upset very few teams this year.
    Teams tend to beat bad teams...and yes 3 of the 4 are considered bad.

    But then there's the fact we dominated Portland during that stretch after getting beat by them earlier. Is that an inconvenient truth, or is there yet another explanation?

    Also, Jim had many chances to win 3 in a row...just 3...all season and could not get that done. He even lost to Washington.

    Then there's the fact we have young guys with no experience getting more minutes while TJ and Posey are rotting on the bench. I thought we needed the vets to win games. Yet we win 4 in a row. I bet some would claim the vets would win 5 out of 4 of those games...

    No practice time, totally new system, new coach, many players have not had time on the court together, lots of inexperienced players....yet this team has beaten 3 teams by double figures and games were on the verge of being blow-outs.

    Go ahead, y'all. Explain it.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel's "System" of Playing Common Sense Basketball....can it continue???

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    This is not really true. The Pacers have a great record against bad teams this year. The problem has been against other mid tier teams like the Philly and Milwaukee. We also have upset very few teams this year.
    Both Philly and Milwaukee are teams that I think we're better than.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel's "System" of Playing Common Sense Basketball....can it continue???

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Teams tend to beat bad teams...and yes 3 of the 4 are considered bad.
    And realistically the bad teams look at the Pacers and go, 'we should beat Indiana'.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel's "System" of Playing Common Sense Basketball....can it continue???

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    And realistically the bad teams look at the Pacers and go, 'we should beat Indiana'.
    Not any more fellas. I really think Frank Vogel's common sense approach and game management skill will enable our team to grind out games (i.e. by adhering to F. Vogel's new Team goals) against the better teams. Yes, he may need to give some of our Vet players more minutes (but only if PG or Tyler or Josh or AJ are outmatched athletically which I don't ever see happening).

    If you really analyze our team from a physical or athletic standpoint, we're really a handful for most teams. We're 5 to 7 deep on the bench. Even the aging Foster can impact the game with his offensive and defensive rebounding and challenging shots in the paint. Josh McRoberts is more athletic than Hibbert or Solo or Hans. He just needs to keep challenging shots, play hard, rebound, and score when the opportunity presents itself.

    IMHO, the better teams will ONLY beat us if they're hitting shots. If we CHALLENGE every shot, I don't see that happening unless they're ON FIRE that particular night. If that happens, yea, we may lose but not by much.

    Wishful thinking....we'll see soon enough!!!

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  20. #14

    Default Re: Frank Vogel's "System" of Playing Common Sense Basketball....can it continue???

    I hope everyone doesn't go darkside after the Miami game. But really, how awesome would that be to beat the Heat for another legendary 5 game win streak!

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel's "System" of Playing Common Sense Basketball....can it continue???

    Quote Originally Posted by TooBigNdaPaint View Post
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    Not any more fellas. I really think Frank Vogel's common sense approach and game management skill will enable our team to grind out games (i.e. by adhering to F. Vogel's new Team goals) against the better teams. Yes, he may need to give some of our Vet players more minutes (but only if PG or Tyler or Josh or AJ are outmatched athletically which I don't ever see happening).

    If you really analyze our team from a physical or athletic standpoint, we're really a handful for most teams. We're 5 to 7 deep on the bench. Even the aging Foster can impact the game with his offensive and defensive rebounding and challenging shots in the paint. Josh McRoberts is more athletic than Hibbert or Solo or Hans. He just needs to keep challenging shots, play hard, rebound, and score when the opportunity presents itself.

    IMHO, the better teams will ONLY beat us if they're hitting shots. If we CHALLENGE every shot, I don't see that happening unless they're ON FIRE that particular night. If that happens, yea, we may lose but not by much.

    Wishful thinking....we'll see soon enough!!!


    Be careful what you say there. Every time I bring up the fact that Josh is more athletic than Tyler I get lots of protests from the Tyler fans. I love Tyler but doesn't change the fact that Josh is more athletic. Tyler has a different game that we need.

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