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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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My Original Article

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  • My Original Article

    This is something I wrote at another site. I warn you, it's very long, but I feel it's a great read.
    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Pacers/Pistons Rivalry Recap and Analysis
    by Aaron Tricker (scarface)


    For the most part, before acquiring Rasheed Wallace, the Pistons were a quiet team. They had moderate success, but were never better than the Net or Pacers. At one point last season, they made a splash by going on a 13 game winning streak. On Friday, January 20th, 2004, they played my Pacers. It was a match up of the two top Central Division rivals, and possibly the top two Eastern Conference teams. For me, it was a test of how powerful Indiana was against it's top Eastern foe.

    Both teams were at their best. Detroit had their 13 game winning streak; Indiana had won 11 of 12, including a current 4 game winning streak. The game, which pitted the leagues hottest team in the Detroit Pistons, who were 29-13, against perhaps at the time, the leagues second hottest team in the Indiana Pacers, who had a record of 32-11. Indiana had won the first two games, the story being that Indiana had actually bullied Detroits guards.

    In the first game, the Pacers won a thriller that saw Mehmet Okur blow the game on a three point attempt that drew nothing but brick and gave Indiana the 89-87 victory. It was a grind-it-out game, like so many other Pacers/Pistons games. What gave Indiana the greatest advantage was the fact that their defense, especially in the back court, was almost flawless. They haunted Detroits gaurds, Chauncey Billups and Rip Hamilton. Billups shot 3 of 17, scoring a meager 8 points. Rip Hamilton's night wasn't much better; he shot 3 of 14, scoring 11 points. The two combined for 6 of 31 shooting, and 19 points. Mehmet Okur was the only thing that kept Detroit in the game; he finished with 17 points off of the bench.

    The second game between the two teams also featured a grind-it-out tempo. It saw the same ending result; a Pacers victory. It, like the first game, was a tough back-and-forth battle that saw the Pacers fall behind the Pistons by as many 13. But Indiana never gave up and ended up taking the lead back in the 4th quarter, and never look back for an 80-75 victory. Also like the first game, the Pacers guards had punished the Pistons guards defensively. Billups did better in this game, but never-the-less, it wasn't a good game for him. He shot 4 for 11, scoring 13 points. Rip was 5 for 12, scoring 12 points. Combined, they were 9 for 23. Not the game you'd expect from the eventual NBA Champions.

    I was really looking forward to the Pacers vs. Pistons part 3. I knew the Pistons had gained some victories and some fans were calling them the best team in the East. I wanted nothing more than to show people that Indiana was the better team. I wanted everyone to see that the East belonged to Jermaine O'neal and the Pacers. And I wanted everyone to see the defense Indiana boasted. They had shut down Detroit's guards, and had set a record 7 straight games of holding opponents under 80 points per game earlier that season.

    The game itself was nothing like the first two. This game saw Indiana in control pretty much the whole 48 minutes. The one similarity was that Indiana had played fairly good defense. They held Detroit to 69 total points, and had once again punished their guards as they coasted to an 81-69 victory. The Pacers had held Chauncey Billups to a 2 of 11, 11 point night. Rip Hamilton had a 4 of 13 night for 15 points. The one player that played good was Corliss Williamson, who had a 17 point night off of the bench.

    To me, it was a fantastic sign. Indiana was better than their Central Division rivals. I had long waited to see this team reach the finals again after 2000. Their latest playoff stint left a sour taste in my mouth. Their loss to Boston had made me want to throw up. But this season was a break out season. The Pacers raced off with the best record in the NBA. They were going to run away with the Central Division title, and perhaps the whole Eastern Conference. Enter Rasheed Wallace.

    I remember watching sportscenter and seeing Rasheed Wallace getting traded to the Atlanta Hawks. I remember laughing at how much rotten luck Rasheed Wallace had. He went from being on an underachieving Portland Trailblazer team to the dumpster of the east, the Atlanta Hawks. Fate would soon rain on my parade.

    Rasheed Wallace was always in trouble in Portland. If it wasn't him getting introuble with the law, it was him saying or doing something controversial. It was very apparent that Portland wanted to dump Wallace to help let youngster Zach Randolph grow into the Franchise Player. So they delt him to Atlanta with Wesley Person for Shareef Abdur Rahim, Theo Ratliff, and Dan Dickau. At the moment, I thought that Wallace was taking his 17 points, 1.6 blocks and 7 boards a game to a non contender. I wasn't concerned in the least bit.

    Then a couple nights after the trade, I read that the Pistons were attempting to acquire Wallace. I knew that Joe Dumars had attempted to land him while he was in Portland, but I never thought of it as more than just a simple rumor. I read that Atlanta was actually going to deal a player they had just traded for. It kind of made me laugh. I didn't beleive a word of it.

    Then the next night, I read that the Pistons had actually done it. They actually landed Rasheed Wallace. I was hoping someone was playing a joke, but it wasn't a joke; it was reality. The Pistons had landed Rasheed Wallace, and perhaps the key that would boast them past the Pacers. I was in denial for a while about it. I actually made excuses for why Indiana was still better. But the Pacers had just lost Ron Artest to injury, and it was many people's oppinions that Artest was done for the season. So all of the sudden, Indiana looked like the weaker team. They weren't just weaker, they were insignificant. They were a speck to the Pistons. The Pistons with Rasheed Wallace and the Pacers without Ron Artest were like the Harlem Globetrotters and Washington Generals.

    I watched the Pacers go from lions to mice. They had lost Artest in a game against the Hornest. He was gone for perhaps the season. And with the East suddenly getting deaper, and tougher, that was a very bad thing. Indiana's depth really helped them out in this situation. Al Harrington moved into a starting role, and I told myself that everything was going to be okay. But Harrington struggled to adjust. And after a second blowout to the Hornets, I was ready to mark this season as a dissapointment. The Pacers were in Golden State, and it wasn't on t.v., so I planned on going to bed early that night.

    I tossed and turned but couldn't sleep. I found it hard to sleep when the team I love was on the downfall, and everyone wanted to take shots at them. People saying the Pacers weren't going to get out of the first round. People saying they couldn't stand a chance against the Pistons, Nets or Hornets. So I finally just got up and turned on the t.v. at about 2 in the morning. Nothing was on besides Nick at Nite, so I decided to watch some ESPNews. I saw the Pacers highlights coming up, and I wasn't sure if I wanted to watch. And then the most shocking thing I'd ever witnessed on my t.v., Ron Artest was playing! He came back after only 5 games. He had surgery to repair a torn ligament in his hand, and now he's back, less than 3 weeks later!

    After that, Artest was back, the Pacers were back, and I was back. The Pacers won 13 of 17 games, bringing them to Sunday, April 4th, 2004.The Pacers were back. They were healthy for the most part. And many were pondering how they would fair against the newly found powerhouse, Detroit Pistons. I was optimistic.

    The Pistons, after acquiring Rasheed Wallace, took a while to find their swagger. They suffered a 4-3 record in the first 3 games before they went on a run that would scare everyone around the league. After going 4-3, the Pistons went on an 8 game winning streak, the first 5 of those games, they held all of their opponents to under 70 points per game, which is just unheard of. It was sickening.

    Then, on April 4th, 2004, the Pacers and Pistons had their first show down. The Pistons, since acquiring Rasheed Wallace, had gone 15-5, and were looking very, very legit. The Pacers had gone thru 2 straight blow out victories, and were looking very good. I was hoping that his game would prove Indiana to be the better team. I would be able to silence the critics who claimed the Pacers were a joke. Only, this game turned out to be a nightmare.

    On this game, Rip Hamilton wasn't shut out. Instead, he was 9 for 15, good for 24 points. Billups didn't have that great of a game, but that wasn't the story. Detroit only scored 79 points. They didn't beat us with their offense, they massacred us with their defense. Jermaine O'neal, our leading scorer and franchise player, starter on the All Star team, third in voting for MVP, was held to 9 points on 4 of 15 shooting. Rasheed Wallace has kept a strangle hold on him. Indiana barely scored 61 points to Detroits 79. And once again, I was feeling really, really, sick. I tried to use the excuse that Jamaal Tinsley and Jonathan Bender weren't playing. I didn't believe a word I was saying to other people, but I kept saying it. Indiana would be just fine. Indiana would be just fine.

    When the playoffs came, Indiana had secured the best record in the NBA, and had the number 1 seed in the east. They played the Boston Celtics. It was sweet revenge for them having ousted us the year before. Indiana had blown Boston out each game. It was however, completely irrelevant in their quest to be NBA champs. The Celtics were perhaps the worst playoff team in NBA history that year, so it was to be expected.

    The second round brought Dwayne Wade and the young Miami Heat, who had just finished a grueling 7 game series with the New Olreans Hornets, where as the Pacers had 10 days to wait after they had eliminated Boston. Indiana had a tough series with Miami. Dwayne Wade provided alot of problems for them. And on Miami's homecourt, the Heat were very good. The series had shifted back and forth, and on the 6th game, Indiana had a 3-2 lead. Indiana went into Miami with a purpose, and pulled down an impressive victory.

    Detroit had manhandled Milwaukee, and then played in a very tough series against New Jersey. New Jersey had once held a 3-2 lead against Detroit. But in pressue Detroit responded by winning the last 2 games of the series setting up an epic match up against Indiana. I was excited and worried at the same time. I was affraid that they would dominate Indiana. But then I thought about how Indiana was a serious contender and how they had beaten just about every tough team out there.

    The Pacers played the Pistons at Conseco Fieldhouse in the first game of the Eastern Conference Finals. The winner of this series would go on to the finals. The first game was a classic grind-it-out game. It was just as epic as I had predicted. There was no clear-cut winner. Rip Hamilton and Chauncey Billups were the only two players that showed up for Detroit offensively. They combined for 16 of 33 shooting for 41 of Detroit's 74 points. Indiana was led by Jermaine O'neal who had 21 points; Ron Artest had 17 points. But more importantly, Reggie Miller had 6 points. 3 of those points came in the final minute which arguably won the game for the Pacers, 78-74.

    The Pacers were up 1-0 and my confidence in my team was soring higher than ever before. Rasheed Wallace had made a comment after game 1 saying that Indiana wouldn't win game 2. I was hoping more than ever that the Pacers would win this one. But the worst thing was that I had to work. After work I raced home to catch the end of the game. Detroit was on their way to winning the game when the Pacers mounted a run. They were 2 points down when Jamaal Tinsley came up with a steal and threw it to Reggie Miller. Miller went up for a lay up and out of no where Tayshaun Prince came up with a huge block. It was the sickest block I'd ever seen, and it saved the game for the Pistons, who won, 72-67. Chauncey Billups had only had 6 points on 1-7 shooting, but Rip Hamilton had 23 points on 8-14 shooting.

    With the series tied up at 1-1, Indiana went into Detroit hoping to take back home-court advantage. The Pistons controlled the game from the start. Everytime they came close, the Pistons D stepped up and they offense would react. The Pistons ended up winning 85-78. Chauncey Billups had 14 points on 4-11 shooting, while Rip Hamilton was 7 of 19 for 20 points.

    The series was now 2-1 Detroit, and once again, I had to work. I caught a few glimpses at the t.v. and saw Indiana beating Detroit pretty severely. I was very happy to say the least. I went home and watched ESPNews and saw that they won, 83-68. Rick Carlisle decided to use Austin Croshere. Croshere came up big for us and was perhaps the reason we won. But when the highlights came on, I saw that Jermaine O'neal had hyperextended his knee and Jamaal Tinsley had also gone down. Later it would be diagnosed as a partially torn acl. Rip Hamilton had 10 of 24 for 22 points, Billups was 5 of 14 for 21 points.

    The series was 2-2, but Detroit would make it 3-2 with a dominating win, 83-65. Jermaine O'neal was hobbling, barely able to play, and Tinsley was out. The game was a complete disaster for the Pacers, who had trouble scoring and playing creditable defense. They were unable to stop Rip Hamilton, who had 30 points on 12 of 22 poings. Chauncey Billups was 2-7 for 7 points. The end was near for the Pacers.

    I tuned in for the 6th game knowing that the Pacers standed little chance of winning. Jamaal Tinsley tried to play but simply couldn't. He went out with 9 minutes to go in the 1st and never returned. Indiana fought very hard, and actually looked as though they would win. But Ron Artest suffered a major breakdown and picked up a technical foul for throwing. He took several bad shots and Detroit got back into the game, and went on to win, 69-65. Indiana was done. Rip Hamilton was 7 of 15 for 21 points and Chauncey Billups was 2 of 13 for 10 points.

    Now that sums up the season for Indiana vs. Detroit. The reason I bring up all those dates, and more importantly the stats for Billups and Hamilton, is to point out something. Before Rasheed Wallace came to town, the Pacers were able to shut down Billups and Hamilton. While in certain games of the ECF the Pacers were able to shut down Billups, they were never able to shut down Hamilton. Why can't they? Because of Rasheed Wallace. Before, the Pistons never had any other options other than Billups and Hamilton offensively. They would sometimes get larger contributions from thier bench, but after Wallace came to town, the Pistons found little use for their bench. Especially in the playoffs.

    What I'm trying to say is that the key for Indiana to defeat Detroit, other than scoring more points than them, which a 4 year old could point out, would be to shut down Rip Hamilton. Which should be hard if he is truely the most well conditioned athlete in the NBA. If that is the case, then why were they able to before Sheed got there?

    Now the Pistons have Antonio McDyess, Derrick Coleman, Ronald Dupree, and Carlos Delfino. They lost Corliss Williamson, Mike James, Mehmet Okur. The Pistons are still very solid, but they are also in a very bad situation should McDyess or Coleman either one go down with an injury. Consider this, Coleman and McDyess last season missed a combined 88 games due to injury. Dupree hasn't seen alot of playing time, and Delfino is still very unproven. Delfino was good in Europe, and has been compared to Manu Ginobili. If he is as good as they say he is, he will take alot of pressure off of Rip Hamilton to produce nightly. Which makes it even harder to beat this team.

    Detroit is very deep, but they are also decreased as far as defense goes. Williamson was a key piece defensively. Coleman doesn't play defense at all, and McDyess at one point in his career was a great defender, he isn't what he once was. Those two players leave Detroit's bench weekend defensively. They are now better offensively, but this disrupts their identity as a defensive power house. This is where it makes it easier for Indiana to beat them.

    Indiana lost Al Harrington and gained Stephen Jackson. Harrington's loss won't be that bad, this was a deal made to increase playing time for Jonathan Bender and Austin Croshere, as well as to gain a terrific outside shooter, and defender. Jackson will be able to keep up with the likes of Rip Hamilton, or atleast do a better job than Reggie Miller. He also improves the Pacers depth.

    The Pacers have added some size, David Harrison is a big guy. He'll definetly play some minutes, and Scot Pollard could see an increased role with this team. They signed John Edwards from Kent State. If he stays on the team, his size, 7 foot, 275, could come in really handy. They have the size to deal with Shaq, and perhaps handle themselves downlow against the Pistons. Overall, the Pistons haven't gotten that much better. They are now very deep, so deep, they could become a log jam, and their bench has limited defensive capabilities, which will hurt them when they go up against Indiana, whose bench is very impressive. I can't wait to see the next Pacers/Pistons game.

    The last thing I want to get off of my chest, is that the Pacers are going to be a higher scoring team next year. Rick Carlisle has already said that he plans on introducing a more fast break offense which will complement this team greatly. Aside from Reggie Miller, this team is very young and athletic, this will make this team all the more deadly. My prediction is that they will go 64 -18. They have such a great team, along with a great coach. I think this team is going to finish atop of the east again, and hopefully, they will bring home a championship, but I'm getting ahead of myself. I'm just looking forward to seeing their first televised game. But until then.... I'll continue to find reasons why the Pacers are better than the Pistons this season.


  • #2
    Re: My Original Article

    I enjoyed reading this and I thought it was well put together.

    The only criticisms I would have is that it could stand a proof read (though its far from unreadable) and this statement is wrong "Williamson was a key piece defensively." I know Pacer fans have a lot of respect for Williamson as he seemed to play you guys well, but he never played defense well and was openly understood in Detroit as a weak link defensively. I'll miss the offense he produced on occation but no one in Detroit will miss his defense.

    (BTW, he is much like Al Harrington in that most of the Piston fans I know think highly of Harrington as he caused the Pistons big match-up problems while the feeling I get around here is that Pacer fans don't see his leaving as much of a loss.)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: My Original Article

      Yeah, it was a good read. I agree with everything Fool said regarding Williamson and the proof read.

      I think Harrington is thought of highly by Pacer fans, but since he wanted to leave, and with extra mins for JO and Ron, as well as Bender and Cro, I don't think we can complain. If there was any situation where you could afford to lose a guy like baby Al I think the Pacers were in it.

      Again, nice article.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: My Original Article

        I have read here and several other places that Jackson will be able to keep up with Rip Hamilton. Not too sure about that. I am not saying he won't be able to, but I don't remember seing that matchup. When Jax was with the spurs, Bowen would have guarded Rip. Last season as a Hawk, I assume Jax guarded Rip, but I don't know.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: My Original Article

          Jackson has actually guarded Rip several times, even with the spurs. He's pretty notorious for getting Rip fired up, and Rip usually torches him for it. Jackson doesn't have good lateral movement, so Rip typically loses him off screens or just blows right by him.

          It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

          Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
          Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
          NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

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          • #6
            Re: My Original Article

            Originally posted by Kstat
            Jackson has actually guarded Rip several times, even with the spurs. He's pretty notorious for getting Rip fired up, and Rip usually torches him for it. Jackson doesn't have good lateral movement, so Rip typically loses him off screens or just blows right by him.

            I was afraid of that.

            Kstat, let me ask you, who does defend Rip well?

            I would think that Bowen does, maybe Christie, I thought Kobe did pretty well in the Finals, but then Kobe had to switch over to Billups to cool him off.

            Actually Jason Kidd did pretty well on him in the EC semi-finals last year.

            You watch the Pistons closer than I do, so what do you think

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: My Original Article

              Jackson does NOT defend Rip well...and will have a difficult time defending any quick shooting guard that explodes to the net for that matter.

              I was watching a re-run of an Atlanta/Toronto game from the last year. Jackson certainly showcased his offensive talent against Vince...but on the defensive end, Vince would blow by Jackson like it was nothing...and Jax would have a tough time staying with him and had to resort to fouling...so this all concerns me a little. Lucky for us we have Jermaine waiting down low for those guys...but I hope it doesn't always have to come to that or Jermaine will find himself in easy foul trouble.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: My Original Article

                My impression is thar Jax is a better team defender than a one-on-one defender. But since we still have artest that should be OK. But Jax won't really help us wuth the smaller quicker shooting guards. But then we have Freddie to help out there

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: My Original Article

                  Great article. Like others have said, my only disagreements would be with the comments about the Pistons bench. I think that it may be a downgrade offensively, but is definitely a defensive improvement. Corliss and Memo were the teams weakest links defensively last year, while McDyess, Delfino and Dupree are all good defenders.

                  I would say that Kobe is the best at guarding Rip. There are teams Rip doesn't do well against in the regular season, but when he steps up his game in the playoffs Kobe has been the only guy to significantly slow him down.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: My Original Article

                    To be truthful about Williamson, I had thougth he was a good defender because I had heard from several Pistons fans that call him "scorliss williamsons" and I thought that his defense might be why he still has a job. My mistake though.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: My Original Article

                      Originally posted by Unclebuck
                      My impression is thar Jax is a better team defender than a one-on-one defender. But since we still have artest that should be OK. But Jax won't really help us wuth the smaller quicker shooting guards. But then we have Freddie to help out there
                      You are exactly right. Jackson makes most of his steals off the ball, like most guards. He gambles a TON in passing lanes, and what you don't see are the steals that he DOESN'T get that result in easy baskets.

                      As for the players that defend Rip well, I'd say Bowen #1, and Kobe #2. Kobe doesn't have the stamina Rip does though, so Rip typically starts heating up in the 4th. Bowen, on the other hand, absolutely frustrates Rip to death.

                      As for Kidd, that was just a matter of forcing Rip to adjust to a defender that was strong and quick, but not quite as tall. Game 6 and 7 of the playoffs, he simply shot fadaway jumpers, and tore Kidd a new one.

                      Not to mention that even if Rip doesnt score, he runs his man through so many tough picks, it really takes its toll over 7 straight games.
                      [edit=64=1095265103][/edit]

                      It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                      Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                      Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                      NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: My Original Article

                        Good article, I enjoyed it, although it could use one more proofread. During the season my feelings were quite similar to yours.

                        More importantly, thanks for introducing a good topic to discuss. We've been found wanting for discussion lately.
                        Take me out to the black, tell 'em I ain't coming back. Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: My Original Article

                          I was just thinking that before the 'Sheed days, the Pacers punished Detroits guards. Now, Detroit's guards punish us. All because of the addition of Sheed for one reason or another. He gives them another option to watch out for. And all of the sudden Rip Hamilton is a great player. I knew he was good, but his value nearly doubled after Sheed came to town. I wish we had a Bruce Bowen. Ron and Reggie just can't keep up with Rip.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: My Original Article

                            Rasheed opens the game up for everyone. He brings so much to the floor, that it allows everyone else to do what they do best.

                            He can play the other team's best post option, allowing Ben to play off the ball, which is what he does best.

                            He spaces the floor, keeping people from sagging off the guards.

                            He replaced Okur, who was our only real weak link defesively in the starting 5.

                            Rasheed sets GREAT screens, and it quite possibly the best outlet passer of any big man in the NBA. Both of those things benefitted Rip greatly.

                            Above all of those thing, though, I'd say Rasheed's greatest quality was his LEADERSHIP.

                            -He's always the first guy off the bench to congratulate a teamate.

                            -He'll give everythign he has, even when hurt.

                            -He's the most vocal person on the floor. He calls out every defensive switch, he makes sure everyone is where they're supposed to be.

                            -When the Pistons lost a heartbreaker in game 1, it was Rasheed that guarenteed victory in game 2. Did he shoot very well? No, but it gave everyone else just a little bit more confidence. Rasheed also busted his butt defending Jermaine Oneal.

                            As for your comment about defense off the bench, every player that we let go of was replaced by a much BETTER defender. Except for James, who was our 3rd string PG anyway, and our current backup is a better defender than he was.

                            As for McDyess, he's healthy now. What you are counting on is that he RE-injures his ankle. I could say the same thing for Bender. You're also insinuating that Dice relied heavily on his freakish hops. He didn't. Antonio wasl one of the most physically strong players in the NBA. That hasn't changed. He relied on it to score, but defense and rebounding was all about his touhness and IQ. He didn't injure those.
                            [edit=64=1095292341][/edit]
                            [edit=64=1095292726][/edit]

                            It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                            Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                            Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                            NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: My Original Article

                              Pretty much the way I see it, Kstat.

                              Homedoggie, I thought your summaries of the game matchups was pretty good, but I think that your assessment regarding where the teams are following their summer acquisitions is a bit of a homer job.

                              You've stated that "Indiana lost Al Harrington and gained Stephen Jackson. Harrington's loss won't be that bad, this was a deal made to increase playing time for Jonathan Bender and Austin Croshere, as well as to gain a terrific outside shooter, and defender. Jackson will be able to keep up with the likes of Rip Hamilton, or atleast do a better job than Reggie Miller. He also improves the Pacers depth."

                              What I will say is that we gave up a player that would have continued to come off of the bench forever for a player that will either eventually/immediately become a starter.

                              That seems great, on the surface. But in fact we sacrificed Al, I vital part of our 4-man rotation in the frontcourt, to acquire Jackson, who fills our most pressing need.

                              It's strange. Detroit acquired Rasheed, who may very well have been the "best possible player" to fill their need last season. Within Carlisle's system and the way he stresses team defense, Jackson could very well be the "best possible player" that the Pacers could acquire to fill our need in the backcourt.

                              But don't think for one minute that Al's departure "won't be that bad". Without a trade or either Bender or Pollard really stepping forward, I think Al's departure could possible be devastating.

                              Detroit has acquired two players up front that have already proven themselves. We are relying on a player (Croshere) that experienced a rebirth last season, and one (Bender) that has shown glimpses of potential but who has failed to show any level of consistency his 5 years on the team.

                              We gained ground on the Pistons backcourt, but I think most experts would want their starters over ours.

                              But we also lost ground on the Pistons frontcourt. They gained better backups, whereas we are left with a lot of question marks.

                              64 regular season wins this year? No way in hell. But I'd be happy if we can get 55 - 56. With no sustained injuries to multiple key personnel, I would pick Detroit for 58-60.

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