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Thread: Slow your roll everyone

  1. #1
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Slow your roll everyone

    Look, I have to be the #1 most thrilled person in the entire world when it comes to the coaching change. People called to congratulate me like I'd accomplished something, they knew how much it meant to me.

    I'm really happy to see how Vogel is running the rotations and what type of plays and style they are trying to run.

    Everything is green grass and blue skies.


    BUT...this was Toronto on the road, Cleveland on an epic losing streak, and Portland who was just in Portland playing on TUE, in Denver on WED, and then Indy today all while traveling through/behind one of the worst winter storms in a long time. Their star player wasn't out there and hasn't been for some time.


    And the Pacers let these teams get back into games, to the point of risking what would have been a humiliating loss to the Cavs to halt their streak.

    So while I'm all for the enthusiasm of Vogel and the good vibes of the change in general, this does not make this a good team or a drastically altered team. The coaching change was needed so they can START the process of learning to be a good team, and that carries the implication of a lot of rough terrain ahead of us.


    You've got to temper your joy just a bit so you don't get washed out by the eventual hard losses to come. The focus of excitement shouldn't be on the wins, at least for us (vs the team I mean), but on the change in who you get to see play and how they play EVEN WHEN THEY LOSE.

    I'll be much more interested to see the post game thread after that first loss, or 2nd loss even, when reality comes back and reminds everyone how we got here.

    In other words, I don't think we can view this as some great playoff team that was just waiting to be unleashed. This is more like a batch of seeds that someone finally decided to put water and fertilizer on.

    Don't get p****d when the mistakes by Price, George, Josh and Tyler cost them games. Don't get PO'd when Roy slumps it up or Collison is killing them. Don't get on the emotional rollercoaster of the W-L record which is tied closely to the whims of the schedule.

    Even when these kids lose it will be attempting to play the right way with the right rotation.

    I now return you to your and Vogel's viewings of .

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    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    I'll choose to keep living in the now, thank you very much. It was crappy living with O'Brien this long, and I'm going to enjoy every second of this 3-0 start, even if it ends Sunday. I'm not going to temper it because something bad is inevitably coming; I'll worry about the bad when it's actually bad.

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    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Their star player wasn't out there and hasn't been for some time.
    Sure he was. Lamarcus Aldridge played.

    Brandon Roy is no longer a star, and will probably never be one again.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    Even if we start losing games after this honeymoon period, the team is playing the right way. Until that happened, there was not going to be progress.

    ...and while the victories are nice, this is just the beginning of this team learning how to play together. It's really priceless. Jim O'Brien had nearly 4 years to get these guys playing together and he never did get that done.

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  9. #5

    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Look, I have to be the #1 most thrilled person in the entire world when it comes to the coaching change. People called to congratulate me like I'd accomplished something, they knew how much it meant to me.

    I'm really happy to see how Vogel is running the rotations and what type of plays and style they are trying to run.

    Everything is green grass and blue skies.


    BUT...this was Toronto on the road, Cleveland on an epic losing streak, and Portland who was just in Portland playing on TUE, in Denver on WED, and then Indy today all while traveling through/behind one of the worst winter storms in a long time. Their star player wasn't out there and hasn't been for some time.


    And the Pacers let these teams get back into games, to the point of risking what would have been a humiliating loss to the Cavs to halt their streak.

    So while I'm all for the enthusiasm of Vogel and the good vibes of the change in general, this does not make this a good team or a drastically altered team. The coaching change was needed so they can START the process of learning to be a good team, and that carries the implication of a lot of rough terrain ahead of us.


    You've got to temper your joy just a bit so you don't get washed out by the eventual hard losses to come. The focus of excitement shouldn't be on the wins, at least for us (vs the team I mean), but on the change in who you get to see play and how they play EVEN WHEN THEY LOSE.

    I'll be much more interested to see the post game thread after that first loss, or 2nd loss even, when reality comes back and reminds everyone how we got here.

    In other words, I don't think we can view this as some great playoff team that was just waiting to be unleashed. This is more like a batch of seeds that someone finally decided to put water and fertilizer on.

    Don't get p****d when the mistakes by Price, George, Josh and Tyler cost them games. Don't get PO'd when Roy slumps it up or Collison is killing them. Don't get on the emotional rollercoaster of the W-L record which is tied closely to the whims of the schedule.

    Even when these kids lose it will be attempting to play the right way with the right rotation.

    I now return you to your and Vogel's viewings of .

    Hey, Cleveland and Toronto were wins the team needed with all things considered and they came through. Tonights game was a big win because it served notice that this is not the same team as it was under Obie. Now, I don't think anyone would realistically predict the Pacers to become Eastern Conference Champions, but the playoffs look like a real strong possibility. I like the way this team plays now - blue collar, hard working - effort!

    As you suggested, this team is young and will make mistakes. I am glad that the young guys are playing and will get the opportunity to work through some of their struggles. But most importantly, this is a team I enjoyed watching tonight. I did not feel cheated by their effort one bit. They seem to be worth the price of admission. How long has it been since any of us could say that? I am optimistic but not in dreamland.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    Good points for both of you, though of course we all know that losing Roy reduces what Portland is. LA is awesome, but so are Love and Griffen and their teams are well below .500. Takes more than one guy.


    As for living in the now, I can't fault you that. I'm worried more about when the sugar high crash comes along. I'm just saying that going the right direction is not the same as being there. You kids are all busting with excitement 20 miles down the road on the way to DisneyWorld, and then by Tennessee the mood sours.

    Remember the joys of today 10 minutes after that first loss.



    They seem to be worth the price of admission.
    Many of them always were, except once you were admitted you found out they weren't playing or weren't playing the right part.



    Sorry guys, the whole thing is just the pragmatist in me. Step 1 is YAY, I'm with you on that, I spent a lot of money on that. But the wins aren't what the YAY is about, right? That's just the gravy here.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 02-05-2011 at 12:25 AM.

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    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    Enjoy it we will. When the great basketball minds alter their approach to this simplistic coaching, we will fade slightly.

    But I won't say that Frank can't adjust his game plan. I would love to see some curls for Dun/Granger more. But do not structure the offense around it. Wrinkles will arise more in the coming weeks....oh wait we won't have time.

    We will begin to slow down, this will be the greatest test for the team. Can they still play hard when they are outplayed?

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    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    I still say O'Brien would've found a way to lose that Cleveland game.



    But anyway, like Hicks said. I know it's not going to last forever, but I'm staying on this ride until the absolute end.



    And then I'm going to want to go on it again.

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    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    I feel people are drawing sides in the same way they did with JOB, at least they like to view it that way. People see in the moment posts of enthusiasm/disgust and interpret it as "Vogel's the answer" or "Obie's the devil incarnate" when neither's the case (outside of a few cases). Some perspective is certainly valuable but I don't think even Vogel's biggest supporters so far, if asked in the middle of a few off days, would actually think he's some savior.

    I dunno, just seems to me people are seeking out polarization sometimes.

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    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    They haven't had Roy, even when he was playing as we know. He's played in less than half of their games, but God he played badly.

    However they're still a .500 team in the West even without him. In the East and not playing the competition in the West as often they're probably in the range of an Atlanta or Orlando team in the East. This is still a quality win.

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    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    Damnit Seth let me be happy! At least until we get beat badly by Miami.

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  20. #12
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    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I feel people are drawing sides in the same way they did with JOB, at least they like to view it that way. People see in the moment posts of enthusiasm/disgust and interpret it as "Vogel's the answer" or "Obie's the devil incarnate" when neither's the case (outside of a few cases). Some perspective is certainly valuable but I don't think even Vogel's biggest supporters so far, if asked in the middle of a few off days, would actually think he's some savior.

    I dunno, just seems to me people are seeking out polarization sometimes.
    Compare Jim and Frank's systems and philosophies and tell me they are not polarized.

    I believe some people are truly fans of Frank's style and methods. Yes it is the honeymoon...so we can give it a few months. But there is also truly a recognition of fundamental differences, not an explicit effort to seek polarization.

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    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Compare Jim and Frank's systems and philosophies and tell me they are not polarized.

    I believe some people are truly fans of Frank's style and methods. Yes it is the honeymoon...so we can give it a few months. But there is also truly a recognition of fundamental differences, not an explicit effort to seek polarization.
    He models his coaching after Hubie Brown of course i am a fan of his methods

    this is a winning brand of basketball i will always be a fan of coach V if he countuines to coach like Hubie.

    benching Paul for taking a bad shot gained him a lot of prasie for me. Hopefully he will do that with all the player 2
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 02-05-2011 at 12:34 AM.

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    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    BUT...this was Toronto on the road, Cleveland on an epic losing streak, and Portland who was just in Portland playing on TUE, in Denver on WED, and then Indy today all while traveling through/behind one of the worst winter storms in a long time. Their star player wasn't out there and hasn't been for some time.
    I've been having similar thoughts of course.. but I didnt agree with much you said in the post game thread.. it didnt warrant any thanks from me anyways,
    and now i see here that you're telling people to relax a little bit.

    I did that to someone today in another thread.. and i thought about deleting it immediately after. Who am I to tell a certain individual how they should feel at that particular time on that particular day.

    We're all entitled to our opinions and feelings and while I admit most of us are getting a bit carried away, its a welcomed relief to the drivel thats been getting posted on here of late.
    Last edited by Roaming Gnome; 02-05-2011 at 07:25 AM. Reason: fixing quote coding
    Reggie Miller is a God. Period.

    Passion. Pride. Pacers.

    It's ALWAYS Miller Time.
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    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Look, I have to be the #1 most thrilled person in the entire world when it comes to the coaching change. People called to congratulate me like I'd accomplished something, they knew how much it meant to me.

    I'm really happy to see how Vogel is running the rotations and what type of plays and style they are trying to run.

    Everything is green grass and blue skies.


    BUT...this was Toronto on the road, Cleveland on an epic losing streak, and Portland who was just in Portland playing on TUE, in Denver on WED, and then Indy today all while traveling through/behind one of the worst winter storms in a long time. Their star player wasn't out there and hasn't been for some time.


    And the Pacers let these teams get back into games, to the point of risking what would have been a humiliating loss to the Cavs to halt their streak.

    So while I'm all for the enthusiasm of Vogel and the good vibes of the change in general, this does not make this a good team or a drastically altered team. The coaching change was needed so they can START the process of learning to be a good team, and that carries the implication of a lot of rough terrain ahead of us.


    You've got to temper your joy just a bit so you don't get washed out by the eventual hard losses to come. The focus of excitement shouldn't be on the wins, at least for us (vs the team I mean), but on the change in who you get to see play and how they play EVEN WHEN THEY LOSE.

    I'll be much more interested to see the post game thread after that first loss, or 2nd loss even, when reality comes back and reminds everyone how we got here.

    In other words, I don't think we can view this as some great playoff team that was just waiting to be unleashed. This is more like a batch of seeds that someone finally decided to put water and fertilizer on.

    Don't get p****d when the mistakes by Price, George, Josh and Tyler cost them games. Don't get PO'd when Roy slumps it up or Collison is killing them. Don't get on the emotional rollercoaster of the W-L record which is tied closely to the whims of the schedule.

    Even when these kids lose it will be attempting to play the right way with the right rotation.

    I now return you to your and Vogel's viewings of .
    You gotta believe or no one else will. What I wanna know is why everyone wants to put these limitations on these youngsters? Where I come from we call those kind of people haters. They always want to tell you what you can't do.

    Sometimes I feel like even if we had a young Russell Westbrook it wouldn't even matter. We would be too busy telling him he can't play point and over analyzing every turnover. Let the kids play and put them in position to succeed. Let's see what we have.

    While you are busy playing it safe your opportunity passes you by.

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  28. #16

    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    This probably doesn't belong in this thread, but man I wish we could somehow acquire Aldridge. I just like the way he plays. He used to be too timid and soft in my eyes, but he has really shown how effective he can be especially since all the pressure is on him with so many other injuries to their team.

    Slip him in at PF, bring Tyler off the bench, and then move Josh to backup center once Foster retires/gets traded.

    But I can live with what we got right now

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    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter1105 View Post
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    This probably doesn't belong in this thread, but man I wish we could somehow acquire Aldridge. I just like the way he plays. He used to be too timid and soft in my eyes, but he has really shown how effective he can be especially since all the pressure is on him with so many other injuries to their team.

    Slip him in at PF, bring Tyler off the bench, and then move Josh to backup center once Foster retires/gets traded.

    But I can live with what we got right now
    If we had Lamarcus we would be a top 4 seed in the east

  30. #18

    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    I don't really mean this, but I kind of wish their team had a worse record so they could then go into full rebuild mode and at least we would have a shot at getting him with all of our expirings/offer up some picks.

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    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    If we had Lamarcus we would be a top 4 seed in the east
    Over who? Boston, Miami, Chicago, Orlando, Atlanta? Which of those teams would we be better than?

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    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Over who? Boston, Miami, Chicago, Orlando, Atlanta? Which of those teams would we be better than?
    Atlanta with Vogels pd it in the post style that would be a perfect fit.

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    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Atlanta with Vogels pd it in the post style that would be a perfect fit.
    Ehhh, not sure I agree with that, but it's possible. We would certainly have an extremely bright future.

  34. #22
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    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    As most have said, I'll live in the now.

    I'm not going to let anyone rain on my parade with the "OMG these teams suck. You just wait" comments. (<-- Not anyone here on PD in particular. Just the general mood of some)

    Yes, I will just wait. And when it gets bad, I'll worry about it then.

    And as BlueNGold said, this team is playing the right way. If we lose, we lose. So be it. It's not fun, and I won't enjoy it, but I do enjoy watching them at least play the right way.

    Better days are ahead.
    Stop quoting people I have on ignore!

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  36. #23

    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    I shouldn't have mentioned it, now all I am going to do is envision him in a Pacers uniform every time I see him lol.

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    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    I still believe!

  38. #25
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    Default Re: Slow your roll everyone

    I'm with Seth on this one. The coaching change is great and the overall philosophy is very welcome, but let's not get ahead of ourselves quite yet. There are still a lot of ballgames yet to be played and this is still a young team. Do I think we are headed in the right direction? Absolutely I do, but I'm also being realistic when I say that this team isn't going to turn into a power now that we've changed coaches.

    So far I like what I am seeing out of Vogel and really like what I am hearing out of him. This could be the change that this team needed to start to turn the corner. I sure as hell don't want to see improvement that they can take into next season, I want to see improvement this season that they can take with them for seasons to come. I don't think that we stood a snowball's chance in hell of seeing with with O'Brien as the coach, but I also realize that it isn't going to be roses and rainbows the rest of the year either.

    I understand everyone being pumped up about the last 3 games, and it is a perfectly understandable feeling after the past few years, but I also know that this isn't going to last forever either. It's not like they just beat the Heat, the Spurs and the Lakers to get to 3 straight wins. Now if that happens, I'm not only on the "Happy Bus", I'm driving the damn thing!

    This is a start and it's a good one, but we still have a long way to go. I think we can pretty much all agree that we're better off now than we were a week ago. And that is something we can all be united on.

    Go Pacers!

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