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Thread: If Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

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    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default If Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    Simple question and discuss.

    I think he could be a Gerald Wallace- caliber defender. Not Ron-esque at all, even though he would have some huge games on that side of the ball.
    Last edited by BringJackBack; 02-03-2011 at 10:08 PM.

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    Default Re: I Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    the thing that pisses me off about granger is how he takes his time running back when the other team is on a fast break, he doesnt try!

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    Batman's New Side Kick Psyren's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    I don't know what player I'd compare him to, but he could be very good.

    He has the size and athleticism to defend multiple positions and be a great defensive stopper.
    Stop quoting people I have on ignore!

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    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?


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    Default Re: I Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    Yeah ......... I thought one of his positives WAS his defense. Seems like he's turned into a scorer - well, maybe a shooter - and has let the D slide. That's why he didn't get much time on the USA team - Coach K said his defense wasn't good enough.

    And IIRC, he did play pretty good D his first year or so - until he fell in love with the 3-ball. But then, his first year he had Artest here and Ron kind of pushed him - coincidence ?? I think not but I digress ...............

    He has the physical tools to be a pretty good defender. Long arms, quick feet ............. but defense is played more by desire than anything else.

    So, to answer - he could be pretty dern good if he wanted to and put the effort into it.

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    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    What in the **** are you talking about? I'm not blaming anything on him, I could have posted this two months ago.. Lightning rod my ***.

    ..If you're trying to say that I'm blaming the bad defense on Granger than you're sadly mistaken. That would be like me starting a thread asking, "If Jim ran more PnR what would our record be?" It wouldn't make any sense.

    For the record, I think we don't win yesterday had Danny not been there for the fourth quarter. Nice try Nostradamus.


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    You Did It Joseph!!!! AesopRockOn's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    I don't think he's as talented on defense as some posters make him out to be.

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    On the Vogel Wagon gummy's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    Not quite sure what "full effort" means. People do have limited stamina, and I don't think Danny can be 100% dialed in on the defensive end and also deliver 20+ points night in and night out. The ability to do that regularly and/or on command is part of what separates the elite from the very good in this league and Danny's ceiling is below elite.

    That said, I suspect that if he played consistently good (not even great, because he's probably not capable of that, just good with bursts of very good) defense and his scoring dropped a bit it would be a net gain for the team. Collision has stepped up his scoring, George can score, Hibbert can score if he can get completely back on track. Hans and Dun are going to contribute some points, albeit somewhat inconsistently. I'm interested to see how Rush performs in the post-JOB era (I think he basically is what he is but there's a chance he'll improve a bit). So maybe we don't need Danny going for 20+. I'm not sure yet, but if I were Coach V I would certainly try selling Danny on the idea of returning to his early season defense.
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    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    Alright. But I assure you with PG getting the press and DG not. He is and will be the next JO.

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    Alright. But I assure you with PG getting the press and DG not. He is and will be the next JO.
    Overrated and overpaid diva who never lived up to his promise or hype?
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    Default Re: I Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    defensively, I think Danny should strive for something more along the lines of James Worthy, circa 1987-1989.

    offensively, Paul Pierce.
    Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team. -- Scottie Pippen

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    Default Re: I Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    2.0 BPG and 1.5 SPG...

    Personally, I rather have 3 solid defenders in the backcourt, instead of just one great defender.

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    Default Re: I Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Overrated and overpaid diva who never lived up to his promise or hype?
    He was a diva, but the issue at hand is that we all try to find the reason for failure in a singular source. Rick>JO>Murphy>JOB>Danny now.

    Failure is shared.

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    Default Re: I Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    If Danny had a killer instinct in any bone in his body, how good would he be? Kevin Durantesque!


    2006 WORLD CHAMPION INDIANAPOLIS COLTS

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    Default Re: I Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    Quote Originally Posted by gummy View Post
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    Not quite sure what "full effort" means. People do have limited stamina, and I don't think Danny can be 100% dialed in on the defensive end and also deliver 20+ points night in and night out. The ability to do that regularly and/or on command is part of what separates the elite from the very good in this league and Danny's ceiling is below elite.
    I don't buy into this you can only be good at one side of the ball crap. If you aren't capable of giving 100% at both ends of the court for 30+ minutes you shouldn't be playing 30+ minutes until you have worked up the stamina to play 30+ minutes. I would rather have a Granger who gave it all on both ends of the court for only 20 minutes a game than one who only gives a crap on the offensive side for 36 minutes a game.

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    Default Re: If Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    Yeah, I think BJB and I have had this conversation in another thread. Not only has Danny's intensity level on the defensive end dropped from the beginning of the season, but his willingness to drive to the hoop and not settle for contested jump shots has seemingly gone down as well. I don't know if he is preserving his body (he's been amazingly healthy this year) or what, but this team's success depends largely on him. If he brings it on both ends of the court and busts his butt, the other players (most of them impressionable younger guys) will look up to him and feed off his example. We need to him to play the defense he's capable of playing, and we need him to be a good leader for our younger guys. He and Roy Hibbert are our two most important players, as far as success is concerned.

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    On the Vogel Wagon gummy's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I don't buy into this you can only be good at one side of the ball crap. If you aren't capable of giving 100% at both ends of the court for 30+ minutes you shouldn't be playing 30+ minutes until you have worked up the stamina to play 30+ minutes. I would rather have a Granger who gave it all on both ends of the court for only 20 minutes a game than one who only gives a crap on the offensive side for 36 minutes a game.
    Well it's not necessary to buy into it since it is not what I said! Nowhere in there did I say that a player can only be good at one side of the ball. I am puzzled as to how you extracted that from my words - the only thing I would change in that first paragraph would be to add that players not only have different levels of stamina, but there are also differences in athletic ability and mental focus that will necessarily impact how good they are overall. So let me try and re-state my argument.

    I said that an ability to be consistently very good on both sides of the ball is part of what separates the elite from the good to very good players in the NBA. I also said I do not believe Danny has the physical tools and mental fortitude to be one of those elite players. However, I think he can focus more on the defensive end, improve, and become consistently good to very good on that end but I also suspect that his scoring average would drop a bit as a result. I did not say that if he improved his defense he would suck at offense. Let me say state that again - saying that his offensive production might decrease a bit is not the same as saying Danny would no longer be able to function offensively. It's not even close. So the position you are disagreeing with is much more extreme than the one I articulated. Please re-read what I said, thank-you.
    Last edited by gummy; 02-04-2011 at 05:49 PM.
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    Member presto123's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    Quote Originally Posted by gummy View Post
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    Well it's not necessary to buy into it since it is not what I said! Nowhere in there did I say that a player can only be good at one side of the ball. I am puzzled as to how you extracted that from my words - the only thing I would change in that first paragraph would be to add that players not only have different levels of stamina, but there are also differences in athletic ability and mental focus that will necessarily impact how good they are overall. So let me try and re-state my argument.

    I said that an ability to be consistently very good on both sides of the ball is part of what separates the elite from the good to very good players in the NBA. I also said I do not believe Danny has the physical tools and mental fortitude to be one of those elite players. However, I think he can focus more on the defensive end, improve, and become consistently good to very good on that end but I also suspect that his scoring average would drop a bit as a result. I did not say that if he improved his defense he would suck at offense. Let me say state that again - saying that his offensive production might decrease a bit is not the same as saying Danny would no longer be able to function offensively. It's not even close. So the position you are disagreeing with is much more extreme than the one I articulated. Please re-read what I said, thank-you.


    I still disagree. His offense shouldn't suffer at all if he's in game shape for the season. These guys get paid mega-money to give that effort on Both sides of the ball. I see his lack of hustle for one thing a lot and there is no excuse for that. Kobe plays great defense And offense and plays a ton of minutes. It's a mindset more than anything and our guys have to get back to realizing just how far defense can go to get wins. But I'm not putting it all on Granger. A lot of our guys need to step up their defense and hustle.

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    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
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    Default Re: If Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    I think Danny Granger is in the mold of Scottie Pippen. Maybe its because they have similar mechanics to some degree, atheliticm, and form.

    I am not a believer that Pippen was a great player, anyone MJ had next to him was going to appear better than he really was.

    only i think Granger is naturally a little better offensively, and slighty worse defensively than Pippen.

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    Default Re: If Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    I think Danny Granger is in the mold of Scottie Pippen. Maybe its because they have similar mechanics to some degree, atheliticm, and form.

    I am not a believer that Pippen was a great player, anyone MJ had next to him was going to appear better than he really was.

    only i think Granger is naturally a little better offensively, and slighty worse defensively than Pippen.

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    Default Re: If Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    I am not a believer that Pippen was a great player, anyone MJ had next to him was going to appear better than he really was.
    You're kidding right? The year Jordan retired to play baseball, Pippen didn't have Jordan, right? Pippen still averaged 22 points, 8.7 rebounds, 5.6 assists, and 2.9 steals.

    Oh, and the Bulls still won 55 games. The year before with Jordan they won 57.

    Pippen is so freaking far beyond Granger it's not even funny.

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=58098

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    Default Re: I Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    I still disagree. His offense shouldn't suffer at all if he's in game shape for the season. These guys get paid mega-money to give that effort on Both sides of the ball. I see his lack of hustle for one thing a lot and there is no excuse for that. Kobe plays great defense And offense and plays a ton of minutes. It's a mindset more than anything and our guys have to get back to realizing just how far defense can go to get wins. But I'm not putting it all on Granger. A lot of our guys need to step up their defense and hustle.
    That's cool. I definitely agree that Danny could hustle more and that there is no excuse for not trying harder on the defensive end. I also agree that given a certain baseline of physical tools, defense is mostly mental (although some extraordinary physical gifts can make the difference between a really good defender and an elite level defender). Where I disagree is that I am not sure Danny has all the tools to play at an elite level on both sides of the ball - I think he could be pretty good but not great, which is why I expect that his offensive production might drop a bit if he were to dedicate himself to defense. Your referencing of Kobe ties in well to my argument - that the ability to be very good on both sides of the ball consistently is what separates the good from the great.

    But I do appreciate your taking the time to disagree with what I actually said rather than argue with a caricature of what I said.
    Last edited by gummy; 02-04-2011 at 06:35 PM.
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    Default Re: If Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?



    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    I think Danny Granger is in the mold of Scottie Pippen. Maybe its because they have similar mechanics to some degree, atheliticm, and form.

    I am not a believer that Pippen was a great player, anyone MJ had next to him was going to appear better than he really was.

    only i think Granger is naturally a little better offensively, and slighty worse defensively than Pippen.
    This thread just took a turn towards the ridiculous.
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    Droppin' knowledge, yo. Mackey_Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    He was a diva, but the issue at hand is that we all try to find the reason for failure in a singular source. Rick>JO>Murphy>JOB>Danny now.

    Failure is shared.
    Can you honestly say that you believe Granger fully exerts himself on the defensive end?

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    On the Vogel Wagon gummy's Avatar
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    Default Re: If Danny would put full effort into his defense, how good would it be?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    I think Danny Granger is in the mold of Scottie Pippen. Maybe its because they have similar mechanics to some degree, atheliticm, and form.

    I am not a believer that Pippen was a great player, anyone MJ had next to him was going to appear better than he really was.

    only i think Granger is naturally a little better offensively, and slighty worse defensively than Pippen.
    Wow. Huh. I think Pippen is one of the best defensive players I've seen play the game (I've been watching since the end of the Bird-Magic era). He's a 10 time All-Defensive First Team guy. I can buy the argument that MJ's presence and talent might have made Pippen a better offensive player simply because of all the attention Jordan commanded on offense (though as has been stated, Pippen alone still put up really good offensive numbers). But Pippen was a beast on the defensive end because of his physical tools - length and athleticism - and his focus and desire. He was great at it all - man to man (perimeter and interior), playing the passing lanes, help defense, steals and deflections, even blocked shots and charges. There's a crap ton of quotes out there from a variety of other NBA players gushing about Pippen's defense and the big role it played in the Bulls' success and of course there is a lot of game footage out there too. I've no time to dig all that up though, so I'll leave it for someone else to fetch.

    But I'm a little flabbergasted by these statements. I'm a Pacers fan through and through and I'm glad to have Danny on our team. But Scottie Pippen was a much, much better defensive player than Danny has shown himself to be thus far and he was a better shooter (overall - Danny shoots a better 3pt percentage) and scorer than Danny. I like Danny a lot. But he has not performed on a level that would make me say he's close to being as good as Scottie Pippen overall on offense or defense.
    Last edited by gummy; 02-04-2011 at 06:50 PM.
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