Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 49

Thread: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

  1. #1
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    19,930

    Default "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    Pacers' new blue-collar mentality is a hit

    MIAMI -- The only things missing when the Indiana Pacers take the court are their hard hats, jeans and lunch pails.

    The Pacers may not look like blue-collar workers, but they are playing with that spirit lately.

    The days of being a finesse, jump-shooting team are slowly going away. They have replaced that style with a more rugged mentality.

    It seems to be working, too, as the Pacers are 4-0 since Frank Vogel took over as coach for the fired Jim O'Brien last week.

    The Pacers will have their hands full tonight, though, when they take on the Miami Heat.

    "I've been trying to figure out the best use of our talent for 31/2 years," Vogel said.

    "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working. This is an approach I think is necessary to try. I believe it's working."

    Pacers forward Danny Granger was dressing after Sunday's victory over the New Jersey Nets and pointed across the locker room at the players he feels are responsible for changing their style -- Josh McRoberts and Tyler Hansbrough.

    "They're rugged, smash-mouth players," Granger said. "We're using them to our advantage, where previously power forward was looked at as our weakness."

    McRoberts is an athletic, highflier who can handle the ball like a guard. Hansbrough has a motor that never stops and is known to get under the skin of opponents.

    Hansbrough and McRoberts team with centers Roy Hibbert and Jeff Foster in the frontcourt.

    "Since the coaching change, they're not looking to shoot the 3(-pointer) as much," New Jersey coach Avery Johnson said of the Pacers' new approach.

    "They're still capable, but they're looking to play more inside out than outside in. With the four horses they have inside, those guys understand what their jobs are. There's no child's play inside the paint with those guys."

    The Pacers are holding teams to 41 percent shooting and outrebounding them by 14.5 during the past four games.

    It was that style that helped the Pacers get off to a solid start.

    "The old adage in the NBA is that you win with defense and rebounding," swingman Mike Dunleavy said.

    "That's what coach is trying to stress to us. We need to win in the trenches. That's what we did at the start. I think we're trying to take advantage of our strengths."

    Vogel said the Pacers are still an offensive-minded team. They have scored at least 100 points in each of his games as coach.

    It's how they get those points that's different.

    Vogel simplified the offense and moved Hibbert from the foul line area to the low post.

    "We're in the process of changing the identity of our team," Vogel said. "We're not just a defensive team. We're going to have poise and patience offensively."

    Who gets Wade?

    Vogel said he has not decided who will guard Miami's Dwyane Wade.

    O'Brien often moved Dunleavy to the bench when the Pacers faced an explosive scorer on the wing. That could open the door for rookie Paul George to start.

    Indy Star- Mike Wells

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2011...|text|Sports|p
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  2. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Bball For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    7,351

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    How do you guys think our rebounding vs. their rebounding will play into this game?

  4. #3
    '12 PD Sunshiner awardee Kemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    A-Town , Indiana
    Age
    39
    Posts
    4,968

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    If Danny and Paul can somewhat contain Lebron and Wade, we will really need Roy and the "Bruise Bros." to impose their energy, hustle, and will in the paint if we are to win this game..

    I think it can be done, as Miami really wouldn't have an answer for us at the 4 and 5 spot IMO ...
    I don't think Bosh is much to worry about, as long as we can keep out of foul trouble.. He is gonna go for the easy buckets.... aka ft's from drawing fouls.. since he is somewhat injured and not even close to 100%


    Not to mention our P.G. position is CLEARLY better than theirs by leaps and bounds..

    I think Dahntay can really help in this game at the wing to try and contain Lebron and/or Wade since Rush is gonna be out as far as I know.. I think after his performance last game , DJ has earned some minutes tonight IMHO
    .
    Last edited by Kemo; 02-08-2011 at 05:39 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kemo For This Useful Post:


  6. #4

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    I'm calling it right now. We will beat the Heat. We will out rebound them and hold them to around 41% shooting.

  7. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MaHa3000 For This Useful Post:


  8. #5

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    Who is this man?!? Is he a basketball angel?

    Seriously, even beyond this season, this is exactly how our team should play. This is INDIANA. We don't play that wimpy three point, finesse, motion basketball. We play INDIANA basketball. We go straight at you, and never back down. We rule the paint. If you want to win, it's a guarantee you'll have to work for it. The team should represent our city, and in my opinion we are a hard working city.

    This all SHOULD have begun right after DG's teeth were knocked out. I know he's on board. I know Tyler and Josh are on board. PG24 is ready. Big Roy is ready to prove his tougness.

    I'm still unsure if Vogel should be coach next year, but i really really hope his vision of this team continues.

    More now than ever, GO PACERS!!!

  9. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ZepZach For This Useful Post:


  10. #6
    Member sportfireman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Louisiana
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,175
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    If Rush isn't ready to play. Then hopefully we can see D. Jones and P.George on Wade. Please no Dunleavy!!!
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

    Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God. kjv
    Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to sportfireman For This Useful Post:


  12. #7

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    Quote Originally Posted by sportfireman View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

    If Rush isn't ready to play. Then hopefully we can see D. Jones and P.George on Wade. Please no Dunleavy!!!

    So if Dun isn't playing against Wade, are you advocating he not play at all, b/u SF in relieve of Granger against James, or only minimum minutes to rest players?

  13. #8
    Member colts19's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    terre haute indiana
    Posts
    318

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    Quote Originally Posted by sportfireman View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If Rush isn't ready to play. Then hopefully we can see D. Jones and P.George on Wade. Please no Dunleavy!!!
    I'm not off the Dunleavy bandwagon. I think he gets to much of the blame. He was a product of the Jim Obe coaching and his defense has been much better since Vogel took over. It is still his weakness, but it is better. Add to that all the other things that he does and he is still an important part of the team.

    I have been saying for years that this team needs an identity and I think we are now finally getting one. It appears that the only people who new we should be playing tyler and Josh were the people on this board. They are our identity.
    Good is the enemy of Great


    We're changing the identity of our basketball team -- dramatically. We're a power post team -- a blood-and-guts, old-school, smash-mouth team that plays with size, strength, speed and athleticism. We attack the basket. . . . This is the new identity of our team. It was a great effort. I'm very proud of our guys."
    -- Frank Vogel.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to colts19 For This Useful Post:


  15. #9
    Yeah, I'm a Pacers fan. MyFavMartin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    In the Washington DC area
    Posts
    4,302
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    For continuity sake, start Dun... just decrease his minutes and let DWade chase him around the court for a while... then bring in Rush and George to finish him off...

    It'll be interesting if DC2 and Roy step up...

  16. #10
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Free Lance!
    Posts
    8,063

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    Quote Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    "Bruise Bros."
    .
    Hey, that's got potential.

    Animal Crackers is fun, but won't be used publicly, too controversial.

    But Bruise Brothers is fitting, and could even include Foster. All three white guys.

    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to McKeyFan For This Useful Post:


  18. #11

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    it will also be interesting to see how josh and tyler do vs bosh. bosh is not a power player, but he is much more skilled and talented that either josh or tyler. as long as the heat do not try to post the pacer PF, things should be ok. but i am worried that putting bosh in the post [or near post like danny does] will result in easy shots for MIA.

    mike might spend some time guarding mike miller, he is getting 20 mpg.

  19. #12
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583
    Mood

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    Especially in big games, I worry about early foul trouble. Nothing sucks the energy out of the room faster than watching the weaker of the two teams get a bunch of early fouls, essentially ruining their chances at competing. I think if we were to start Paul George tonight, he could easily get hit with 2 quick fouls if he's not very careful.

  20. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Hicks For This Useful Post:


  21. #13

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    Quote Originally Posted by MaHa3000 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm calling it right now. We will beat the Heat. We will out rebound them and hold them to around 41% shooting.
    Man, I love your enthusiasm! Hopefully you will be right!

  22. #14
    Member sportfireman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Louisiana
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,175
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    So if Dun isn't playing against Wade, are you advocating he not play at all, b/u SF in relieve of Granger against James, or only minimum minutes to rest players?
    I don't like Dun's defense at all. And his offense will not make up for his lack defense against LeBron or Wade. I say play him very little. I just don't like Dun. Never have. Use Granger, Jones and George as the wings. IMO
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

    Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God. kjv
    Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to sportfireman For This Useful Post:


  24. #15
    Denim Chicken duke dynamite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Bloomington
    Posts
    13,373
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    I have a feeling we'll compete hard in this game. Maybe not well enough for a win, but we'll give them a run or two.

    With that said, who wouldn't love to say, "We beat the Heat twice on their own floor!"

    Even if we lose, I am still happy to say that we are 4-1 under Vogel. That is impressive by far compared to what we could've been if O'Brien was still at the helm. If that were the case, I'm sure we would've lost the Portland game and Sunday's game at NJ, no doubt.

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to duke dynamite For This Useful Post:


  26. #16
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,534

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    "With the four horses they have inside, those guys understand what their jobs are. There's no child's play inside the paint with those guys."

    This is the greatest compliment an opponet can say about you and this may be the single greatest thing I have read about our team since the day that Walsh broke up the finals team.

    In fact this entire article restores my faith in humanity and somewhat makes me feel somewhat justified for my thoughts about basketball again.

    You see over the past three years we have run a system that is totally and 100% opposite of what I always considered good basketball. Yet there they were, the statiticians, constantly explaining away why what I always thought was right was wrong and that Jim's style was ultimatley the best way to play.

    I had begun to doubt my understanding of the game.

    Now while 4 games does not a season make, I can say that I absolutely understand the way we play now and am 100% behind it.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  27. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Peck For This Useful Post:


  28. #17

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    "With the four horses they have inside, those guys understand what their jobs are. There's no child's play inside the paint with those guys."

    This is the greatest compliment an opponet can say about you and this may be the single greatest thing I have read about our team since the day that Walsh broke up the finals team.

    In fact this entire article restores my faith in humanity and somewhat makes me feel somewhat justified for my thoughts about basketball again.

    You see over the past three years we have run a system that is totally and 100% opposite of what I always considered good basketball. Yet there they were, the statiticians, constantly explaining away why what I always thought was right was wrong and that Jim's style was ultimatley the best way to play.

    I had begun to doubt my understanding of the game.

    Now while 4 games does not a season make, I can say that I absolutely understand the way we play now and am 100% behind it.
    And that's why stats aren't the end all be all. Statistics are A TOOL to measure success. But the eye test is also a good tool. Logic is another one. Basketball players are human beings, not robots. And the best coaches have figured this out.

    We all know the Troy Murphy story. A girl on the Uconn team, Kelly faris (From Indiana) is quite often the second best player on the court. And quite often, if you had looked at the box score..you would have never known it. (She's one to have a box score number of 2 points, 2 rebound, 4 assists..type) Essentially, the exact opposite of Troy. There are constantly players like this..that statistics would show you one thing, but actually watching the game would show you another.

    Not that stats aren't a good tool for measuring something. But they aren't the end all be all.

  29. #18
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,221

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    Quote Originally Posted by sportfireman View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I don't like Dun's defense at all. And his offense will not make up for his lack defense against LeBron or Wade. I say play him very little. I just don't like Dun. Never have. Use Granger, Jones and George as the wings. IMO
    Dunleavy is not as bad defensively as everyone thinks; move him to his natural position of SF and he probably would be okay there gaurding bigger less athletic players.

    Dun is showing he has recovered from the injury. He is a very good player when healthy and could probably start for over half the teams at SF and be very useful.

    15pt, 5assits, 5 boards kinda player with average to above average D. I would be okay with the Pacers re-signing him at a reasonable contract, but do not believe Dun wants to settle for b/u minutes at SF next season, and rightfully so.

  30. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In a Gym
    Age
    21
    Posts
    16,836
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Dunleavy is not as bad defensively as everyone thinks; move him to his natural position of SF and he probably would be okay there gaurding bigger less athletic players.

    Dun is showing he has recovered from the injury. He is a very good player when healthy and could probably start for over half the teams at SF and be very useful.

    15pt, 5assits, 5 boards kinda player with average to above average D. I would be okay with the Pacers re-signing him at a reasonable contract, but do not believe Dun wants to settle for b/u minutes at SF next season, and rightfully so.
    So ya have him guard LBJ 2 nite

  31. #20
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,221

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And that's why stats aren't the end all be all. Statistics are A TOOL to measure success. But the eye test is also a good tool. Logic is another one.
    Not that stats aren't a good tool for measuring something. But they aren't the end all be all.
    i agree 100%. stats are misleading, its like Rush being a 42% 3 pt shooter, but yet he is not a consistent shooter, although i would like to state otherwise and see him perform well.

    Rush would be the 3rd or 4th best option on this team if a 3 were needed to win the game. how Rush's 3 pt % is that good i have no idea, but when it matters Rush cannot be trusted. Granger, Dun, DC, George, Price, and maybe even Posey with his experience i would want taking a game winning 3 over Rush.

    when was the last time Rush put a 3 in a defenders eye with heavy contest. wide open, sure Rush will splash it, and on occasion give you an airball.

    based on stats, Rush would be the player on this team you would want taking the last second 3 and maybe even shot, but he is not consistent enough for me, would prefer the aforementioned players significantly.

    if Rush isnt open, he doesnt shoot. statistically i would like to see a breakdown of shots contested % vs. open shots %. if that stat were available, it would be be a more accurate illustration of how consistent rush is with his shooting efficiency.


  32. #21
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,221

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    So ya have him guard LBJ 2 nite
    Dunleavy is no where near a franchise level player, and i would like to see Posey gone for financial reasons, but Dunleavy is a good player.

    Not many can gaurd LBJ or Wade. however, if Dunleavy played on another squad, i would not hesitate to have Dun gaurd Bosh if needed.

  33. The Following User Says Thank You to PacersPride For This Useful Post:

    RWB

  34. #22
    Feed the big fella. Infinite MAN_force's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Broadripple
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,237

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    I may have recently trashed D. Jones in another thread, but if Rush isn't ready to go, I say start D. Jones on Wade. I don't know if Paul is quite ready for that sort of assignment. These sort of situations are exactly where having a player like Jones is a big asset.
    "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

    - ilive4sports

  35. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Infinite MAN_force For This Useful Post:


  36. #23
    thx4tehmRys Danny! daschysta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Geist, Indianapolis
    Posts
    1,951
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Cool Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    Don't start paul, he'll pick up two fouls quick and have his confidence blown for the rest of the game.

    Do we not remember him on Melo? He isn't ready, plus the fact that he is a rookie means he will get no help from the officials whatsoever.

  37. The Following User Says Thank You to daschysta For This Useful Post:


  38. #24
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    20,925

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    Using Melo is a horrible comparison, when you take into the account that Jim told the team to leave him open on purpose.

    I agree with the quick fouls though. That not only hurts PG, it starts messing around with the rotation, causing other players to play more minutes in order to make up for PG's lost minutes.

  39. #25
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583
    Mood

    Default Re: "We tried some things with coach O'Brien that I was on board with. Those weren't working."

    I wouldn't be shocked if we just stick with our rotation, but if Frank believes, as Jim did, in bringing in a superior man-to-man defender in these kinds of matchups, it seems like Dahntay would be the man tonight.

  40. The Following User Says Thank You to Hicks For This Useful Post:


Similar Threads

  1. Coach Jim O'Brien: the Bad Outweighs the Good
    By Hibbert in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-16-2010, 06:03 PM
  2. Counting: It's Fun.
    By N8R in forum Market Square (General Non-Sports Discussion)
    Replies: 66943
    Last Post: 07-23-2010, 10:59 AM
  3. Replies: 25
    Last Post: 05-10-2010, 08:28 PM
  4. O'Brien details clashes with Webber (SI.com)
    By avoidingtheclowns in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 01-22-2008, 07:47 PM
  5. Complete Game 2 Coverage From The Detroit News & Detroit Free Press
    By obnoxiousmodesty in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-24-2004, 11:21 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •