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Thread: Vogel quick to show he's no O'Brien clone (Indystar)

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Vogel quick to show he's no O'Brien clone (Indystar)

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    You just made JOB look like a very poor coach. If what he does is similar to wht Larry Brown does, Larry Brown must do it INFINITELY more effectively.
    Because the Bobcats are worse now than they were at the beginning of the season?
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

    - Salman Rushdie

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Vogel quick to show he's no O'Brien clone (Indystar)

    Here is confimation by one of the Pacers insiders about the Inside Information that we got two weeks ago from Mackey-Rose

    New Pacers coach Frank Vogel also told me he wants to continue his open communication w/players and not have assistants deliver messages.
    about 24 hours ago via web

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    Default Re: Vogel quick to show he's no O'Brien clone (Indystar)

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    It probably should be pointed out that a coach who deferred to the players' feelings and wishes was NOT what was needed when the previous coach was hired.

    Vogel is in a position to be successful because he (so far) has players who are reasonable in their feelings and actions.

    Other than that, I am happy to see a coach who communicates well with players. We'll see how well that translates to the Media after the honeymoon is over.
    Bill makes an excellent point here. When O'Brien was hired, the makeup of the roster was vastly different.

    O'Brien's style obviously didn't mesh all that well with the personalities on this team. This doesn't mean that his way of doing things is wrong, terrible, or stupid.

    On the same wavelength, different is not always better. Vogel looks and sounds like a better fit for this roster right now, but that doesn't make him a better coach than O'Brien.

    A change was made. Things will be different. Jim O'Brien is a good guy and a good basketball coach, but it didn't work out. I'm sure that Frank Vogel is a good guy and a good basketball coach, and I hope it works out better for the team.
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

    - Salman Rushdie

  4. #29

    Default Re: Vogel quick to show he's no O'Brien clone (Indystar)

    Quote Originally Posted by DonSwanson View Post
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    They ran with the same tired narrative about how O'Brien supposedly didn't listen to Dick Harter, without providing any context that O'Brien and Harter collaborated in the creation of a team defensive style that they used in Boston, Philly, and Indiana, a defensive system which is proven in generating overachieving outcomes. This season's Pacers are yet another example of this.
    The Pacers part is inaccurate, according to my (and several other) sources.

  5. #30
    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vogel quick to show he's no O'Brien clone (Indystar)

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    Because the Bobcats are worse now than they were at the beginning of the season?
    No, I'm talking about the entire body of work. I would list all of Brown's accomplishemtns and compare them to JOB, but you and I both know it would be like comparing JOB's one story ranch to Brown's Empire State Building.

  6. #31

    Default Re: Vogel quick to show he's no O'Brien clone (Indystar)

    So far I like what I've heard and seen from Vogel, though it's still early of course.

    Part of that is that I believe that an NBA coach is/should be more of a communicator/manager/teacher than a dictator like in college.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Vogel quick to show he's no O'Brien clone (Indystar)

    Isn't Vogel the youngest current head coach in the NBA right now at 37?

  8. #33

    Default Re: Vogel quick to show he's no O'Brien clone (Indystar)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersalltheway10 View Post
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    Isn't Vogel the youngest current head coach in the NBA right now at 37?
    Yup, replaced Spoelstra as the youngest.

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    Default Re: Vogel quick to show he's no O'Brien clone (Indystar)

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    No, I'm talking about the entire body of work. I would list all of Brown's accomplishemtns and compare them to JOB, but you and I both know it would be like comparing JOB's one story ranch to Brown's Empire State Building.
    The list of good players that Brown has coached compared to O'Brien would be similar in stature.

    I know that O'Brien is not as good a coach as Larry Brown. The point is that good and talented people, working as hard as they can, often fail. That's just the way life works.
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

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    Default Re: Vogel quick to show he's no O'Brien clone (Indystar)

    It also should be pointed out that Larry Brown is asked to leave each team, because his team hates him.

    Does everyone forget his and Reggie's clashes?

    Larry Brown is useful, but he quickly runs himself out of town, and he needs a certain type of team. Jim was here long enough, and he had a type of team that his style wasn't fit for.


    And honestly, who in the F cares about Larry Brown anymore? It's been 12years, and his replacement is the one who took that team to the Finals, because he wore out his welcome even with that team.

    It's time to move on from the Larry Brown lovefest.

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  12. #36
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    Default Re: Vogel quick to show he's no O'Brien clone (Indystar)

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    It also should be pointed out that Larry Brown is asked to leave each team, because his team hates him.

    Does everyone forget his and Reggie's clashes?

    Larry Brown is useful, but he quickly runs himself out of town, and he needs a certain type of team. Jim was here long enough, and he had a type of team that his style wasn't fit for.


    And honestly, who in the F cares about Larry Brown anymore? It's been 12years, and his replacement is the one who took that team to the Finals, because he wore out his welcome even with that team.

    It's time to move on from the Larry Brown lovefest.
    They say in "Winning Time" that the team hated Brown and they rallied together around that.

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    Default Re: Vogel quick to show he's no O'Brien clone (Indystar)

    Quote Originally Posted by BPump33 View Post
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    They say in "Winning Time" that the team hated Brown and they rallied together around that.
    True, and it's sad, and obviously it doesn't last.

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    Default Re: Vogel quick to show he's no O'Brien clone (Indystar)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    True, and it's sad, and obviously it doesn't last.
    No joke. Larry Brown shouldn't be a role model for coaches who want to actually keep a job.

  15. #39

    Default Re: Vogel quick to show he's no O'Brien clone (Indystar)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerfan View Post
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    Yup, replaced Spoelstra as the youngest.
    actually, I think the NO coach is younger than Spoelstra

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    Default Re: Vogel quick to show he's no O'Brien clone (Indystar)

    Quote Originally Posted by koVe View Post
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    actually, I think the NO coach is younger than Spoelstra
    Monty Williams is 39, Spoelstra is 40, so yeah, you are right.

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    Default Re: Vogel quick to show he's no O'Brien clone (Indystar)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    I really like what I saw last night.

    This team revolves around the core guys.

    Mike saw limited minutes and Danny didn't play to point where he was breathless.

    I like where this half of the season is going.
    Danny played right at his season average of 36 MPG. Mike was slightly under his average of 30 MPG playing 26. I wouldn't call that limited minutes.

  19. #42

    Default Re: Vogel quick to show he's no O'Brien clone (Indystar)

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Damn the more I read about the way the clown was dealing with the team the more I question Larry Birds decision making for letting this go for this long.

    I'm not really sure Bird would know. Remember, he thought Harter was still doing the "D" when he wasn't.

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