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Thread: Warriors after Granger: Old and dead rumor

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Ahhh, the grass is always greener. Granger for Ellis is a lateral move that accomplishes nothing.
    It is a positional move though that allows us to better fit Monta ( at the Starting SG spot ) next to PG ( at the SF spot ) with BRush backing the both of them up.

    But realistically, getting Granger and Monta on the same Team is unlikely for both the Warriors and the Pacers
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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Hummm... after all of this trade talk I am thinking that we Really should hold on to Danny... If we want to rebuild he would be a good peace to keep around. His 3 point ability and him being able to play the 4 at times will really be valuable later in his career.

    p.s. not touching Ellis if we did do a trade with GS I would rather want Curry.

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    It is a positional move though that allows us to better fit Monta ( at the Starting SG spot ) next to PG ( at the SF spot ) with BRush backing the both of them up.

    But realistically, getting Granger and Monta on the same Team is unlikely for both the Warriors and the Pacers
    And thats so much better than DC, PG, and DG? Doubt it, plus defensively the combo of PG and DG is much better than Ellis and PG.

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Ahhh, the grass is always greener. Granger for Ellis is a lateral move that accomplishes nothing.
    He's 2 years younger. Thats huge for the primes of of core. In 5 years, Granger is out of his prime, while Ellis, Hibbert, Collison, and George will be at or near their primes.

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by flox View Post
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    He's 2 years younger. Thats huge for the primes of of core. In 5 years, Granger is out of his prime, while Ellis, Hibbert, Collison, and George will be at or near their primes.
    You do know why the Warriors are contemplating trading either Ellis or Curry, right? Because they are a horrible defensive combination that gets lit up by opposing backcourts. You trade Danny for Ellis and all of a sudden you have Ellis and Collison in the backcourt, replicating that same problem Golden State has. Yeah, he's two years younger, and that's great, but basketball wise I'm not sure it makes a great deal of sense.

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    You do know why the Warriors are contemplating trading either Ellis or Curry, right? Because they are a horrible defensive combination that gets lit up by opposing backcourts. You trade Danny for Ellis and all of a sudden you have Ellis and Collison in the backcourt, replicating that same problem Golden State has. Yeah, he's two years younger, and that's great, but basketball wise I'm not sure it makes a great deal of sense.
    Then you get rid of Collison. It's simple. I'd much rather have Ellis/Rush/George and whoever we get for Collison than the status quo.

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by flox View Post
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    Then you get rid of Collison. It's simple.
    Simple and stupid. You make a largely lateral move trading away your best player for another team's best player, but this guy you traded for isn't a great fit. So to accomodate this guy, you trade another member of your core away for what? You are creating a lot more problems than you are solving here.

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Simple and stupid. You make a largely lateral move trading away your best player for another team's best player, but this guy you traded for isn't a great fit. So to accomodate this guy, you trade another member of your core away for what? You are creating a lot more problems than you are solving here.
    Lets be honest here, is Collison an elite point guard or someone you could build a team around?

    I'm not saying Monta or Granger are, I don't think they are either, but I feel like if you don't think Collison or Monta can coexist, you trade the lesser of the two.

    I personally think they can exist, but if they can't, you trade Collison. I feel confident that a lineup of Collison/Ellis/George/Player/Hibbert would work well.

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by flox View Post
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    Lets be honest here, is Collison an elite point guard or someone you could build a team around?

    I'm not saying Monta or Granger are, I don't think they are either, but I feel like if you don't think Collison or Monta can coexist, you trade the lesser of the two.

    I personally think they can exist, but if they can't, you trade Collison. I feel confident that a lineup of Collison/Ellis/George/Player/Hibbert would work well.
    Or you have a little bit of foresight and realize that Monta isn't a great fit and you don't trade for him. It's really that simple. If you are going to trade Granger, you are going to do it to fill holes you already have, not creating more.

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Why are so many writers in love with the fact that the Pacers will be in rebuild mode after this season because we'll be way under the salary cap?

    Newsfalsh, we've been rebuilding for a while. Why would we want to rebuild and give away our best pieces for rebuilding sake now that we can build a competitive team, which is something we've suffered years for? How can that make even remotely sense, I mean, even if you don't watch the P's it's pretty much common sense.

    We're closing in to the end of the rebuilding process, not the other way around. Looks pretty clear to me.

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Ellis is a bit overrated, IMO.

    Yeah racks up a bunch of points every game, but he's not a team player.

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Or you have a little bit of foresight and realize that Monta isn't a great fit and you don't trade for him. It's really that simple. If you are going to trade Granger, you are going to do it to fill holes you already have, not creating more.
    It depends on how you feel about the shooting guard position, and whether or not you believe that Paul George in the future is a 2 or a 3. If you think he's a 2- we have no problems. If you think he's a 3- we have a huge hole at shooting guard.

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Well with that 30 million Bird thinks you can get two quality players. That could make a difference.

    What I don't get is, unless they DO use the expirings before the deadline, I don't think they do have all this money they are talking about.

    One, they aren't getting 30 million under the Salary Cap, they are losing existing salary to get further below the LUXURY Tax threshold.

    Two, who knows how the new Salary alignments will work under the new CBA.

    So '30 million this summer' always looks really, really wrong to me.

    Maybe, count55 will do an updated article on this whole idea to supplement his work on the Salary cap sticky thread.

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by Marlin View Post
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    Why are so many writers in love with the fact that the Pacers will be in rebuild mode after this season because we'll be way under the salary cap?

    Newsfalsh, we've been rebuilding for a while. Why would we want to rebuild and give away our best pieces for rebuilding sake now that we can build a competitive team, which is something we've suffered years for? How can that make even remotely sense, I mean, even if you don't watch the P's it's pretty much common sense.

    We're closing in to the end of the rebuilding process, not the other way around. Looks pretty clear to me.

    Most of the writers are saying that because we are a bad team. Then they look at our roster and realize that the players aren't very good. Coupled with the fact that we just fired our coach, and the GM is openly politic-ing for a contract extension that hasn't come yet.

    It's totally reasonable for people outside of Indiana to think the Pacers are needing to rebuild.

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by Marlin View Post
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    Why are so many writers in love with the fact that the Pacers will be in rebuild mode after this season because we'll be way under the salary cap?

    Newsfalsh, we've been rebuilding for a while. Why would we want to rebuild and give away our best pieces for rebuilding sake now that we can build a competitive team, which is something we've suffered years for? How can that make even remotely sense, I mean, even if you don't watch the P's it's pretty much common sense.

    We're closing in to the end of the rebuilding process, not the other way around. Looks pretty clear to me.
    True and False,

    Have been rebuilding for a while but we still have a long way to go. We still have rebuilding with the players, with the coaching and mindset of the team, I think we still have about 3 yrs left of rebuilding to do where we can become a team that can really compete... it's going to take a couple of years for the players to get really comfortable with the new coach(whoever he/she) may be, and then to get into a winning mentality, and to build up our 2nd team.

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Simple and stupid. You make a largely lateral move trading away your best player for another team's best player, but this guy you traded for isn't a great fit. So to accomodate this guy, you trade another member of your core away for what? You are creating a lot more problems than you are solving here.
    it wouldnt just be Monta bro

    I was saying Ellis, Udoh, and some No 1's

    might not change your opinion though, and I respect that
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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by flox View Post
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    Lets be honest here, is Collison an elite point guard or someone you could build a team around?

    I'm not saying Monta or Granger are, I don't think they are either, but I feel like if you don't think Collison or Monta can coexist, you trade the lesser of the two.

    I personally think they can exist, but if they can't, you trade Collison. I feel confident that a lineup of Collison/Ellis/George/Player/Hibbert would work well.
    Given that we have only seen DC play under a Coach that runs an offense that does not cater to the strength of most Point Guards ( just talking about DCs stint here in PacerLand this season...not last season )....I do not know whether we have an elite PG or not in Collison.

    For now, I will say that we have a solid piece that can complement Granger for now.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by flox View Post
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    He's 2 years younger. Thats huge for the primes of of core. In 5 years, Granger is out of his prime, while Ellis, Hibbert, Collison, and George will be at or near their primes.
    People on this forum are far too caught up with age. Ellis came straight out of high school, they were both in the 05 draft class. Granger's played all of 30 or so games worth of minutes more in his career. Ellis's entire game is based on his speed and quickness. Granger's is anything but.

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    it wouldnt just be Monta bro

    I was saying Ellis, Udoh, and some No 1's

    might not change your opinion though, and I respect that
    The Warriors would be stupid to trade Ellis+Udoh+multiple 1st round picks for Granger That maybe an offer that they send to the Nuggets and/or the Heat for Melo or Lebron...but not for a borderline All-Star like Granger.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    So first I'm agreeing with UB and now in this thread I'm agreeing with Flox?

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by flox View Post
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    It depends on how you feel about the shooting guard position, and whether or not you believe that Paul George in the future is a 2 or a 3. If you think he's a 2- we have no problems. If you think he's a 3- we have a huge hole at shooting guard.
    I think he is a 3, and I agree we have a huge hole at SG. I don't think Monta Ellis is the answer though.

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    it wouldnt just be Monta bro

    I was saying Ellis, Udoh, and some No 1's

    might not change your opinion though, and I respect that
    Yeah, but that is entirely unrealistic. They wouldn't give up that sort of king's ransom for Granger. If they did, I'd probably do it.

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    People on this forum are far too caught up with age. Ellis came straight out of high school, they were both in the 05 draft class. Granger's played all of 30 or so games worth of minutes more in his career. Ellis's entire game is based on his speed and quickness. Granger's is anything but.
    That is a legitimate discussion and a good concern. You are pretty close about the minutes played, 13702 for Granger, 12064 for Ellis. But Ellis is younger- his body is probably in a better shape. Also, Granger is still currently playing worse- while Ellis is playing better- I feel like Granger is in more danger of regressing than Ellis.

    Also, a fastbreak team of Collison/Ellis/George/McRoberts/X would be fantastic to watch.

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I think he is a 3, and I agree we have a huge hole at SG. I don't think Monta Ellis is the answer though.
    Are there better answers out there that we could realistically get? I don't really think so.

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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Yeah, but that is entirely unrealistic. They wouldn't give up that sort of king's ransom for Granger. If they did, I'd probably do it.
    true

    just as I agree with you I would not trade DG for Ellis only
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    Default Re: Warriors after Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by flox View Post
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    Are there better answers out there that we could realistically get? I don't really think so.
    Can we realistically get Monta? I don't really think so. I have backed off on Iguodala, but I'd rather have him than Monta.

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