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Thread: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

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    Default Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Is This Mixed Up or What?


    Here are some interesting stats taken off the Pacer web site for this season to date on Posey, McRoberts, and Hansbrough.


    Total game minutes to date:


    Posey 684 McRoberts 678 Hansbrough 465


    Games Played In:


    Posey 37 McRoberts 32 Hansbrough 30


    Minutes Per Game:


    McRoberts 21.2 Posey 18.5 Hansbrough 15.5


    Rebounds Per Game:


    McRoberts 5.3 Hansbrough 4 Posey 3.3


    Shooting Percentage:


    McRoberts .481 Hansbrough .453 Posey .357


    Points Per Game:


    Hansbrough 6.5 McRoberts 6.3 Posey 5.5


    Total Points For the Season:


    Posey 203 McRoberts 202 Hansbrough 196


    Questions that come to my mind looking at the stats is why is Posey getting all of these minutes and especially finishing out almost every game. Is he a better shooter? Is he a better scorer (he has scored 7 more points than Hansbrough but in 219 more minutes of playing time)? Does he rebound better? Is he that much better than both Tyler and Josh? What does he do that I do not see that allows him to get all of this extra time on the floor over Tyler in the second half almost every game? And, I might add, as you well know, we have been winning all these games in the second half.


    Why finish up the game against Portland without your starting 5 on the floor? The starters took care of business both the first quarter and the third quarter but about half way through the third Jim starts subbing again and from there on out forget a starting 5. Why not get Roy and Tyler both in the game at the same time and for the rest of the game when things are going well with you when you had them in together at the start of the game and during the start of the second half? Another name for "small ball" seems to me to be "losing ball." I guess there is such a thing as matching up but it seems like we are always matching up against the other team rather than them matching up against us.


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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Our small ball lineup only works when Granger is at PF. Posey isn't effective there at all. Until JOB realizes this, we will continue to see Posey at the PF. Small ball is good in small doses with Danny at the PF. Run that when the traditional line up is struggling a bit. But run it with Granger only.

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    I am pasting what I posted in the last game thread when someone was angry about Posey taking Josh's minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    Thats the thing. Posey keeps granger from playing 40+ minutes. To play Mcroberts at the 4 you have to go back to the traditional lineup. Its not Josh vs. Posey because they fill different roles. Mcroberts backs up Hansboros role on this team. you can argue that you want the traditional line up back but that would more than likely mean Hansboro coming back in the game. Wether its a good move Posey is played to maintain the type of offense we run with Granger at the 4. Posey plays because he is the only player other than granger than can fill the small ball 4 role.

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Read my post above. Posey at the 4 is ineffective. It's pointless to run small ball with him. I'd much rather see a traditional lineup with PG and JMac at the 3 and 4, than see small ball with Posey.

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    Our small ball lineup only works when Granger is at PF. Posey isn't effective there at all. Until JOB realizes this, we will continue to see Posey at the PF. Small ball is good in small doses with Danny at the PF. Run that when the traditional line up is struggling a bit. But run it with Granger only.
    Nice, concise and 100% accurate.

    Small ball is not my preference, but Danny is a big enough SF for it to work pretty well in some situations. In fact, we beat the Celtics early last year with Danny guarding KG.

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    Read my post above. Posey at the 4 is ineffective. It's pointless to run small ball with him. I'd much rather see a traditional lineup with PG and JMac at the 3 and 4, than see small ball with Posey.
    George is in competition with Rush and Dunleavy, so thats really a different discussion. Making the argument that you prefer a traditional line up to Posey small ball (when danny rests) is completely reasonable argument however if the traditional lineup is failing to generate points with Tyler I am doubtful Josh will make much of a difference.

    If the traditional lineup is getting the job done, Posey doesn't see the floor. If Hansboro gets the job done Tyler and Granger should take all of the minutes at the 4. I am not against Josh, but realistically its Danny or Tyler that he needs to outplay for minutes. To get minutes, Josh needs to be good enough that we don't need danny at the 4.

    This is just my opinion, since we haven't scene foster and Josh play together much. I can't say what would happen for sure, However Foster/Mcroberts looks to be a horrible front-court on offense. If our problem on a particular night is scoring I don't think a Foster/Mcroberts front-court is what you bring into the game.

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    George is in competition with Rush and Dunleavy, so thats really a different discussion. Making the argument that you prefer a traditional line up to Posey small ball (when danny rests) is completely reasonable argument however if the traditional lineup is failing to generate points with Tyler I am doubtful Josh will make much of a difference.

    If the traditional lineup is getting the job done, Posey doesn't see the floor. If Hansboro gets the job done Tyler and Granger should take all of the minutes at the 4. I am not against Josh, but realistically its Danny or Tyler that he needs to outplay for minutes. To get minutes, Josh needs to be good enough that we don't need danny at the 4.

    This is just my opinion, since we haven't scene foster and Josh play together much. I can't say what would happen for sure, However Foster/Mcroberts looks to be a horrible front-court on offense. If our problem on a particular night is scoring I don't think a Foster/Mcroberts front-court is what you bring into the game.
    Posey never ggets it done he should never see the floor

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Posey never ggets it done he should never see the floor
    I could bring statistics to say your wrong, but I am just going let you have your opinion.

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    George is in competition with Rush and Dunleavy, so thats really a different discussion. Making the argument that you prefer a traditional line up to Posey small ball (when danny rests) is completely reasonable argument however if the traditional lineup is failing to generate points with Tyler I am doubtful Josh will make much of a difference.

    If the traditional lineup is getting the job done, Posey doesn't see the floor. If Hansboro gets the job done Tyler and Granger should take all of the minutes at the 4. I am not against Josh, but realistically its Danny or Tyler that he needs to outplay for minutes. To get minutes, Josh needs to be good enough that we don't need danny at the 4.

    This is just my opinion, since we haven't scene foster and Josh play together much. I can't say what would happen for sure, However Foster/Mcroberts looks to be a horrible front-court on offense. If our problem on a particular night is scoring I don't think a Foster/Mcroberts front-court is what you bring into the game.
    The traditional line up doesn't get enough use to see if its failing most the time. Jim is very quick to put in Granger at the 4. Once he does that he doesn't look back. Then when Granger comes out, Posey comes in. Why not go back to the traditional line up then? It can't do any worse than small ball with Posey at the 4.

    Danny shouldnt play many minutes at the 4 because we shouldn't use small ball for an extended period of play. Fill the rest of the minutes with Josh and Tyler. I see what your saying when the traditional line up is struggling we go to small ball. And it works with Danny. BUT its a gimmick offense that can't work long. And thats what JOB needs to realize. The traditional line up works better than small ball with Posey. Its that simple.

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    I could bring statistics to say your wrong, but I am just going let you have your opinion.
    let me see them his great 35% shooting is that it? or his great defense on Amare?

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    let me see them his great 35% shooting is that it? or his great defense on Amare?
    I don't want to go there again. Look at my defense of Posey thread. I joined this discussion to point out that even if Posey plays 0 minutes it doesn't mean Josh gets to play. Even though it is the same position Josh cannot do what Posey is brought in to do. Whether Posey should be brought in to do it or not is debatable.

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    I could bring statistics to say your wrong, but I am just going let you have your opinion.
    http://www.82games.com/1011/1011IND2.HTM

    Here are some stats from 82games.com There is only one 5 man lineup where Posey is playing the 4 that is in the top 20 5 man lineups that have been used this season.

    Our best lineups consists of Granger, Hansbrough and JMac at the 4. And when Granger is at the 4, its in small amounts.

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    I don't want to go there again. Look at my defense of Posey thread. I joined this discussion to point out that even if Posey plays 0 minutes it doesn't mean Josh gets to play. Even though it is the same position Josh cannot do what Posey is brought in to do. Whether Posey should be brought in to do it or not is debatable.
    THIS is exactly where people are arguing with you at. IT SHOULDNT BE DONE. Regardless of whether Posey stretches the floor better than JMac and Tyler. Sure he does. But that offense isn't as efficient as the traditional line up!

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    Thats the thing. Posey keeps granger from playing 40+ minutes. To play Mcroberts at the 4 you have to go back to the traditional lineup. Its not Josh vs. Posey because they fill different roles. Mcroberts backs up Hansboros role on this team. you can argue that you want the traditional line up back but that would more than likely mean Hansboro coming back in the game. Wether its a good move Posey is played to maintain the type of offense we run with Granger at the 4. Posey plays because he is the only player other than granger than can fill the small ball 4 role.
    posey sightings are a sign of poor pacer play. not the cause, but the symptom. if the pacers start playing better, posey will play less.

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    THIS is exactly where people are arguing with you at. IT SHOULDNT BE DONE. Regardless of whether Posey stretches the floor better than JMac and Tyler. Sure he does. But that offense isn't as efficient as the traditional line up!
    I had that fight, I am not trying to waste my time doing it again. People shouldn't use words like never and always if they want to have a solid position. This team has recovered from deficits with Posey in the lineup. More than once his three point shooting has gotten us back into games. I have defended Poseys utilization since the New York game and find it commical that people are so upset that he is the 10/11th man that wouldn't even play if the coach thought he had a better option. I don't think you have a slam dunk case that Mcroberts/Foster is more effective than Posey/ Foster. If you think Mcroberts is a better center than Foster, I completely disagree with your opinion. The stats for the entire year don't mean a thing when I am only defending his utilization since Tyler was made starter.

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    I had that fight, I am not trying to waste my time doing it again. People shouldn't use words like never and always if they want to have a solid position. This team has recovered from deficits with Posey in the lineup. More than once his three point shooting has gotten us back into games. I have defended Poseys utilization since the New York game and find it commical that people are so upset that he is the 10/11th man that wouldn't even play if the coach thought he had a better option. I don't think you have a slam dunk case that Mcroberts/Foster is more effective than Posey/ Foster. If you think Mcroberts is a better center than Foster, I completely disagree with your opinion. The stats for the entire year don't mean a thing when I am only defending his utilization since Tyler was made starter.
    How many games have we won since then? Thats what it comes down to. Winning and losing. The best winning percentages of 5 man lineups do not involve Posey at the 4. Simple as that.

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    How many games have we won since then? Thats what it comes down to. Winning and losing. The best winning percentages of 5 man lineups do not involve Posey at the 4. Simple as that.
    We lost to Golden state when he had a DNP- CD. You want to blame his utilization for that one? A team does not live and die by the 10th guy in a preferably nine man rotation.
    Last edited by spazzxb; 01-23-2011 at 07:45 PM.

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    We lost to Golden state when he had a DNP- CD. You want to blame his utilization for that one?
    Roy didnt play

  24. #19

    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    You guys are getting trolled if you haven't noticed...

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Roy didnt play
    Just keep in mind I never complained about Posey not playing. I am perfectly. happy with the nine man rotation and Granger and Tyler taking all of the minutes at the 4 on most nights. If Roy starts playing well again we should play less and less small ball. My point is that unless Tyler gets enough minutes to need a rest there aren't minutes there for Josh. If Roy gets his act together then we can play Josh next to him again. Small ball is the effect of having no low post presence.

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    We lost to Golden state when he had a DNP- CD. You want to blame his utilization for that one? A team does not live and die by the 10th guy in a preferably nine man rotation.
    JOB doesn't play him like the 9 or 10th guy in the rotation. He plays him as importantly as anyone off the bench because he is the PF when we are in small ball. He gets eaten alive on defense and isn't efficient enough on offense to make small ball work. We are 2-7 since Jim has used more small ball line ups. The GS loss has been the best one of all of them at least. He only played at the very end of the SA game too and guess what, we almost beat SA that night. He also got a DNP against Philly, we won that game. The best games we have played since the increase of small ball is against Philly, Dallas, SA and GS. Two of those games Posey didn't play, one he was in for our last play against SA. Dallas he actually did well. The rest of the game he has gotten good minutes in and we have lost. It comes down to wins and losses. Less Posey equals more wins.

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by immortality View Post
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    You guys are getting trolled if you haven't noticed...
    so are you calling live sports or Pacers forever a troll.

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    I don't even know what's going on.

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    Just keep in mind I never complained about Posey not playing. I am perfectly. happy with the nine man rotation and Granger and Tyler taking all of the minutes at the 4 on most nights. If Roy starts playing well again we should play less and less small ball. My point is that unless Tyler gets enough minutes to need a rest there aren't minutes there for Josh. If Roy gets his act together then we can play Josh next to him again. Small ball is the effect of having no low post presence.
    The worst part is that Hibbert started to play better in the second half of the Washington game we won. And he played his best along side McRoberts. The small ball was never needed to this extent.

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    Default Re: Interesting Stats: Posey/McRoberts?Hansbrough

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    The worst part is that Hibbert started to play better in the second half of the Washington game we won. And he played his best along side McRoberts. The small ball was never needed to this extent.
    pacers are playing a nine man rotation since . . . idk, since SAS, maybe. but it has been pretty consistent. and neither posey or mcbobs has been in it.

    PG - collison/one of the J's
    SG - dunleavy/rush/george
    SF - granger
    PF - hansbrough
    C - hibbert/foster

    mcroberts or sjones is the 4th big in a 3 big rotation. and posey is danny's backup at the 4. if the rotation players do their jobs, nobody else plays. the problems the pacers are having on offense and defense are the fault of the rotation. not the guys that have to come in and clean up the mess.

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