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Thread: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

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    Default "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    I see that comment a lot, and I think to myself, "Who does?"

    Like right now that comment applies to Derrick Rose tonight.

    My question is: Who can guard Derrick Rose?

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    Member Dr. Awesome's Avatar
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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    Brandon Rush is our best bet.

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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    Oklahoma City, Boston, Miami, and possibly Utah.

    That's basically it. He is a very special player. It isn't being overly pessimistic to say we don't have anybody for him, most teams don't.

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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    Brandon Rush is our best bet.
    Maybe, but I mean what point guards can guard Derrick Rose in this league?

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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Maybe, but I mean what point guards can guard Derrick Rose in this league?
    Russell Westbrook.

    I'm getting close to the point of thinking Westbrook will be a better player than Rose.

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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    Brandon is prolly to slow for him, I think we should just double team him when he has the ball, and triple his *** in the post since no joakim.
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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    Brandon Rush is our best bet.
    Having Collison got at him at the other end woulden't hurt either.
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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Oklahoma City, Boston, Miami, and possibly Utah.

    That's basically it. He is a very special player. It isn't being overly pessimistic to say we don't have anybody for him, most teams don't.
    Right now, Rose averages 24.1 points per game.

    OKC:

    28 points on October 27th. 11 points on December 6th.

    BOS:

    18 points on November 5th, 20 points on December 3rd, 27 points on January 8th.

    MIA:

    Surprisingly haven't played yet, but I'm assuming you're not referring to a point guard here? I was looking for point guards.

    UTA:

    Also not yet played.

    By the way, he had 17 points against Indiana on December 13th.

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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Right now, Rose averages 24.1 points per game.

    OKC:

    28 points on October 27th. 11 points on December 6th.

    BOS:

    18 points on November 5th, 20 points on December 3rd, 27 points on January 8th.

    MIA:

    Surprisingly haven't played yet, but I'm assuming you're not referring to a point guard here? I was looking for point guards.

    UTA:

    Also not yet played.

    By the way, he had 17 points against Indiana on December 13th.
    With regards to Miami, I think Wade and/or Lebron could match-up with him.

    John Wall has the potential to be able to contain him in Washington, but he probably isn't there yet.

    Frankly, the guy has a crazy combination of size, handles, and athleticism. He's a freak. It isn't anything to be ashamed of if he beats you. He is a legitimate MVP candidate.

    I think Westbrook, Rondo, and Deron Williams are the best point guard match-ups for him, but I don't think anyone can really stop him. You have to concentrate on holding him in check as much as possible, while not allowing the other guys on his team to beat you.

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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    Of current PG's two immediately come to mind

    Derron Williams and Russel Westbrook
    Sittin on top of the world!

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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    Why not just let him do his thing and worry about Boozer and Deng?

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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I see that comment a lot, and I think to myself, "Who does?"

    Like right now that comment applies to Derrick Rose tonight.

    My question is: Who can guard Derrick Rose?
    It isn't an either you do have someone or you don't. There are guys who can do a better job on Rose than others - a healthy Rondo can guard Rose better than Collison can. (but can Rondo guard him - better than most but probably not. No one can guard him one-on-one - but you don't need to guard him one-on-one that is why it is 5 on 5

    I reject the whole notion of anyone ever saying, "We don't have anyone who can guard him" that isn't the question. The question is how much attention do you want to or have to pay to Rose. I guarantee if the pacers really wnted to "stop Rose" they could. Likely take two and three guys on him, trapping, stunting, and the Bulls other players would get layups and easy shots, but Rose could be stopped. The balance is how best to guard someone and stay within your normal defense. That is what a good defender allows teams to do.

    Great example is when the Celtics with a healthy Kendrick perkins guards Dwight Howard - he does a great job one-on-one and the magic struggle against the Celtics.

    So whenever I hear a commendator say "they have no one who can guard him" I cringe wish they would explain more than just that (see Barkley)

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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    Quote Originally Posted by IUfan4life View Post
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    Why not just let him do his thing and worry about Boozer and Deng?
    Because he might single-handedly beat the Pacers?

    Seriously though, I think it's more important for the Pacers to control the boards and limit Boozer to taking tough, well contested shots. If they can do that they can keep up with the Bulls despite what DRose does but they still need to lock him down and keep him from penetrating deep into the lane.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    GOOD GOD THAT'S LARRY BIRD'S MUSIC!

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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    I think too many here have an over inflated view of a point guard's defense that they don't see regularly. In general most point guards have issues guarding each other. They are for the most part the quickest players in the NBA, and the best ball handlers. This isn't the NBA where players could hand check and it gave them a chance at slowing down the quickest players.

    I think unless we had Rondo, most would complain about our point guards defense. Just as most fans think their coach sucks, the same could be said for their PG defense as well.

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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    nobody. certian players are unguardable. Kobe, Lebron, Rose, Durant, etc.

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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    With regards to Miami, I think Wade and/or Lebron could match-up with him.

    John Wall has the potential to be able to contain him in Washington, but he probably isn't there yet.

    Frankly, the guy has a crazy combination of size, handles, and athleticism. He's a freak. It isn't anything to be ashamed of if he beats you. He is a legitimate MVP candidate.

    I think Westbrook, Rondo, and Deron Williams are the best point guard match-ups for him, but I don't think anyone can really stop him. You have to concentrate on holding him in check as much as possible, while not allowing the other guys on his team to beat you.
    Agreed. Really, the reason I bring this up is I see/hear this comment a lot, and maybe I'm just reading too much into it, but it often comes across to me as though people say it to cite a reason for the Pacers or a specific Pacer not being 'good enough'.

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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Agreed. Really, the reason I bring this up is I see/hear this comment a lot, and maybe I'm just reading too much into it, but it often comes across to me as though people say it to cite a reason for the Pacers or a specific Pacer not being 'good enough'.
    Yeah, I actually said it in the "Rough stretch coming up" thread earlier today, so I was thinking maybe that was what spawned this thread.

    I didn't say it to rag on Collison or anybody else specifically. But big point guards are always going to give us fits. I don't think Collison is big enough to really bother D. Rose defensively. Same with TJ Ford. That's the problem with playing Collison and Ford. They are both really small. Against a big point guard like Rose, that is always going to be a mismatch.

    I'd like to see AJ Price be the every night back-up, but especially against Chicago, I think he gives us a better chance at containing Rose than either of the other two point guards, simply because he is bigger and stronger.

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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Yeah, I actually said it in the "Rough stretch coming up" thread earlier today, so I was thinking maybe that was what spawned this thread.

    I didn't say it to rag on Collison or anybody else specifically. But big point guards are always going to give us fits. I don't think Collison is big enough to really bother D. Rose defensively. Same with TJ Ford. That's the problem with playing Collison and Ford. They are both really small. Against a big point guard like Rose, that is always going to be a mismatch.

    I'd like to see AJ Price be the every night back-up, but especially against Chicago, I think he gives us a better chance at containing Rose than either of the other two point guards, simply because he is bigger and stronger.
    I actually think that small defenders can be the best defenders at the PG position.

    Why, because they are annoying. If they are actually good at pressure defense. Now..Collison isn't that good at it, and TJ doesn't care to do it all the time. (Collison could very well improve.)

    But essentially, no one can really guard D.Rose...but if you annoy him the entire game he may be more likely to make some mental mistakes/miss some shots ect...

    That said, I feel like TJ is just a really poor man's version of Collison. They both have the same build, similar strengths and weaknesses (except Collison is good at the PnR) Just TJ makes dumber mistakes, stalls the offense, and doesn't score or shoot as well.

    I think AJ brings a different set of skills, and a different personality (Collison's fiesty and AJ's more..calm) which is complimentary to Collison.

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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    If you can't have a freak like Westbrook or Rose, I like that we have waterbugs because they should be able to cut off the drive better with their speed, and if nothing else, you should be able to abuse said freaks on the other end because they're bigger/slower. Make'em work.

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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    DC is starting too look better defensively too.

    He has good hands and is quick.

    He did a decent job keeping Kidd away and staying outside the arc.

    It'll be interesting to see what happens if he's the one guarding Rose tonight.

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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    DC is starting too look better defensively too.
    Agreed. He's at least greatly improved from where he was. Maybe a difference is we have better bigs guarding the PnR like more Foster and Hansbrough with less Posey and Josh (not hating on Josh, but he fouls a lot).

    Of course he'll have problems with DRose, Westbrook, etc.. But with us actually running pick 'n rolls now, hopefully we can make those guys work on the defensive end instead of just watching DC spot up.. DC is very underrated right now in my opinion.. If he had a premier power forward he'd really be racking up assists and points.

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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    There is a huge emphasis on PGs playing the passing lanes as well on defense. Some look like great defenders because they can use their quickness to get turnovers, while they struggle immensely guarding another PG straight up. Rondo is great at playing the passing lanes and is quick around his man in one-on-one. He does struggle with bigger PGs though even though he is tall, he doesn't have the strength of DWill. It is somewhat easy to mask the weaknesses PGs have defensively, because they are the first point of attack defensively. You adjust from there and hopefully aren't trying to compensate too much for a PGs deficiencies. Some slow, some short, some quick, it just depends. Collison struggled with Lowry quite a bit because Lowry is broad and strong. Lowry will struggle with a lot taller PGs who can use their length for passing and shooting over him. Collison needs to use his quickness as his main weapon. He is shifty and can get in between people well, which he utilizes to make passes. I think Collison needs to make other PGs change direction as much as possible. He is more apt to cut off driving lanes by using his quickness. I think that is something he does pretty well, but he doesn't utilize it enough to get over screens effectively.

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    Pacers fan in FL Deadshot's Avatar
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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    On Wednesday night Paul Silas had the Bobcats run a full court press against Rose the whole first quarter and it really threw Rose out of synch. He played relatively poor the rest of the game until the 4th quarter when their offense became "stand and watch DRose drive to the basket and score." I thought it was strange that Silas used the strategy in the first, but it worked, so realistically I was surprised he didn't go back to it. After all, they built up a 20 point lead in the first half. But a part of me also wonders how good of a full court press we could set up (I'd love to see PG in it).

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    Default Re: "We don't have anyone who can guard him." Well, who does?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadshot View Post
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    On Wednesday night Paul Silas had the Bobcats run a full court press against Rose the whole first quarter and it really threw Rose out of synch. He played relatively poor the rest of the game until the 4th quarter when their offense became "stand and watch DRose drive to the basket and score." I thought it was strange that Silas used the strategy in the first, but it worked, so realistically I was surprised he didn't go back to it. After all, they built up a 20 point lead in the first half. But a part of me also wonders how good of a full court press we could set up (I'd love to see PG in it).
    It will be interesting to see if O'Brien scouted that game just to get an idea. It would be worth giving a shot.

    I wouldn't even be oppose to having TJ Ford start the game, just to play the first 5 minutes ALL OVER ROSE. If he can wear Rose out for 5 minutes, Collison could still get the bulk of the minutes with a more tired Rose.

    Fords only job this game should be to "Darrell Armstrong" Derrick Rose.

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