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Thread: Nice article by Kravitz

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Nice article by Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    well I agree with that. And he tinkers too much and yet many on this board say he is stubborn
    The stubborness comes from Jim's default setting.

    Hey look I'll give him credit, he gave it a valiant go this year. I was pretty happy with the way things started off. He had a center and a power forward in the game for the most part (I do not consider Posey a power forward).

    But how many of us new that once things didn't go well that his answer would be this? I've said it before & I'll say it again, he can coach almost any type of way you want to play. He can coach half court slog ball or fast breaks with motion offense.

    However at the end of the day he has one style that he prefers more than any other and by default he will switch to it.

    Now by itself that is not really a big fault, we all have our security blankets in life. But the problem is when he does it to such an extent that he limits his other options that he becomes stubborn.

    Example, you and I both know that there is/was no way in hell that Lance was getting off of that bench the other night. So why did he have to have Lance active and Solomon inactive?


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  3. #102

    Default Re: Nice article by Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    all?

    even if it was 50% that leaves the coaching staff 50%
    75% Troy leaving
    20% Hibbert's improvement
    5% Danny's improvement (or it was..he's slowed down there some too)

    But, I never blamed JOB for defense in the first place. Other than the fact that he'd play Troy instead of Josh..or the ridiculous small ball.

    Your defense isn't going to be good with Roy and Troy in the middle. No matter what sort of system the coach thinks up.

    I'll go on record as saying that I don't think JOB is that bad of a coach off the court. As in, his offensive system isn't bad, it's a little complicated, but it's paul ball mixed with philly style motion offense. It's probably better run in the college game (perhaps even with women) because I think team chemistry and bball IQ is necessary to run it.

    His defensive system isn't bad.

    It's always been the in game stuff (well..and his comments to the press.) I've repeated that his issues are player adjustments, player rotations, and in game play calls. (The TJ iso..the Darren Iso..The Danny iso....I think I saw an AJ iso in preseason..that all needs to stop..jesus call a pick or something)

    That along with a few hangups (VET MUST PLAY)

    My problem is, I consider the latter stuff to be far more important. I think..unless they are just plain awful, most offenses and defenses can work with the right players (and I do think we have some players that this motion offense works with. Unfortunatly, now we don't play two of them..)

    Which is why I can honestly say, I don't know that I've seen a worse coach than O'brien. Because the player adjustments, substitution patterns, and in game calls are SO bad.

    as for the recent changes..I think..Larry Bird suggested to JOB that he wanted his first round picks to get some time. And with JOB playing small ball, meaning Dun/Danny/Posey are all playing minutes at the 4, he probably figured he'd activate either Lance or AJ just in case he needed them to play a few minutes at SG.
    Last edited by Sookie; 01-13-2011 at 04:34 PM.

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  5. #103
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    Default Re: Nice article by Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    The stubborness comes from Jim's default setting.

    Hey look I'll give him credit, he gave it a valiant go this year. I was pretty happy with the way things started off. He had a center and a power forward in the game for the most part (I do not consider Posey a power forward).

    But how many of us new that once things didn't go well that his answer would be this? I've said it before & I'll say it again, he can coach almost any type of way you want to play. He can coach half court slog ball or fast breaks with motion offense.

    However at the end of the day he has one style that he prefers more than any other and by default he will switch to it.

    Now by itself that is not really a big fault, we all have our security blankets in life. But the problem is when he does it to such an extent that he limits his other options that he becomes stubborn.

    Example, you and I both know that there is/was no way in hell that Lance was getting off of that bench the other night. So why did he have to have Lance active and Solomon inactive?

    In case it was a blowout either way, he could get some burn.

    Once again, Kravitz shows why I don't like Indy Star coverage.

  6. #104
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    Default Re: Nice article by Kravitz

    Maybe while Jim's at it with the youth movement, he can move TJ to the bench and give AJ his minutes.

  7. #105

    Default Re: Nice article by Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by greenway84 View Post
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    Cant Area 55 even get .5%
    I'll give you Danny's 5% since his defense went missing

  8. #106
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    Default Re: Nice article by Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I'm constantly amazed how so often I see things completely different.

    I think Kravitz is full of it.
    I think you and Peck are both on drugs.

    You can't say it's the same rotation when Posey gets a DNP-CD.
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  9. #107
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    Default Re: Nice article by Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I think you and Peck are both on drugs.

    You can't say it's the same rotation when Posey gets a DNP-CD.
    I wonder if they should change it to DNP-LBD.

  10. #108

    Default Re: Nice article by Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    The reason Roy is getting inconsistant min. is two fold. 1. He's just sucked so he doesn't deserve the min. 2. He is not that good when he has to be the only big on the floor, he is much better off with a power forward who can help bang and patrol the paint.
    Actually I'd also like to introduce a third reason. Roy is either still committing stupid fouls, or he's still getting called for the ticky-tack fouls. I supposed the former may fall under your first reason, Peck. Either way, having to get pulled early is going to limit your minutes. I wonder what UB's "minutes breakdown" for Roy would look like if we took out the games with him in foul trouble. For the sake of discussion, maybe any games where Roy picked up 2 fouls in the first quarter. I seem to recall there being 2 or 3 games like this already, and he may have actually picked up the fouls in the first 7 minutes or so.

  11. #109
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    Default Re: Nice article by Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by joeyd View Post
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    Actually I'd also like to introduce a third reason. Roy is either still committing stupid fouls, or he's still getting called for the ticky-tack fouls. I supposed the former may fall under your first reason, Peck. Either way, having to get pulled early is going to limit your minutes. I wonder what UB's "minutes breakdown" for Roy would look like if we took out the games with him in foul trouble. For the sake of discussion, maybe any games where Roy picked up 2 fouls in the first quarter. I seem to recall there being 2 or 3 games like this already, and he may have actually picked up the fouls in the first 7 minutes or so.
    You know that would be interesting to look up.

    Also I would be interested in seeing what Roy's fouls were with Josh on the floor vs. when he is not on the floor?

    I still believe that Roy picks up fouls covering for beat players and while Tyler is a decent man to man defender he is not a protector of the rim. Josh often times would be the man to rotate over and try and get the driver.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  12. #110

    Default Re: Nice article by Kravitz

    I think Josh used to pick up fouls for Hibbert. Remember Josh was getting into foul trouble quite often.

  13. #111

    Default Re: Nice article by Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I think Josh used to pick up fouls for Hibbert. Remember Josh was getting into foul trouble quite often.
    i know this sounds stupid, but this is a good reason to start josh.

  14. #112

    Default Re: Nice article by Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    i know this sounds stupid, but this is a good reason to start josh.
    You know, you may be on to something. I think that the foul issue may be what is hindering Roy's game. He seems really cautious backing players down close to the basket on offense, for fear that he will pick up an offensive foul. On defense, I'm not saying that he shys away from trying to play good hard defense, but he needs to realize that he is not going to get the calls or no-calls that a veteran is going to get, and he also needs to just let guys (that have clearly beaten him to the basket) just get their layup, especially early in the game.

  15. #113
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    Default Re: Nice article by Kravitz

    Roy hasn't been the same since Howard hit him in the head.
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  17. #114
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    Default Re: Nice article by Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I'm constantly amazed how so often I see things completely different.

    I think Kravitz is full of it.

    Lets look at what is really going on here. Is Jim playing the young guys or is he going small? Many of you think like Kravitz that Jim is playing the young guys. I don't see it.

    Is AJ Price playing at all? No

    Josh has gone from averaging over 20 minutes and starting every game to either not playing or in two cases not even being on the active roster.

    Lance hasn't seen anytime.

    Is Foster playing more than ever? Yes.

    Is Dunleavy playing as much or more than ever? Yes. Ford is still playing.

    So where is the change. Tyler is starting but he replaced a younger player so the net change there is basically none. George is getting some time -that is the only real change as far as going from vets to young players. But George hasn't averaged 15 minutes per game lately. Posey is getting fewer minutes.

    This one paragraph in particular got under my skin


    As I mentioned Foster is playing more than ever, Mike as much as ever and Posey is still getting some minutes. Plus one of the biggest reasons why the Pacers have played better in 3 or the past 4 games is precisely because of Jeff and Mike. So I say Kravy is full of it.

    So I think the statement "He's playing the young guys" is simply false.

    I think what happened is Jim decided Josh just wasn't getting it done. I think Tyler has been playing well in practice. I think George has been showing improvement, and Jim wants to spread the floor more, wants to go small - and one way to do that is play George some. Also with the offense struggling, one way to help the offense is to go small. Play Danny, Mike and Rush more together. (that has been the biggest change IMO)

    back to the point of going young. I will predict if you map out the minutes of young vs. old. Old I guess is Mike, Jeff, Posey and Ford - young is everyone else except Granger I would bet you the young are getting marginally more minutes now than they were 7 or 8 games ago. maybe an average of 2 or 3 minutes more per game. But no real change - I don't see a big youth movement.
    Fair enough, but whether it's the youth or the small line up or both, I find it exciting and enjoyable. Let's just keep winning.

    I suspect Lance and Josh may not be ready to contribute as much now/yet. Perhaps they never will be. Posey's minutes are down at least.

    You have no choice but to play Foster when healthy, IMO. He's closest thing to a 2nd legit 5 on the roster.

    AJ's the only "youngin" I want to see more of. Overall, TJs play of late would seem to have warranted it so I don't know what the hold up is. TJ actually played fairly well by his recent standards against Dallas I thought.
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  18. #115
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    Default Re: Nice article by Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I don't really feel like getting off on a Josh tangent. But I thought he played a few decent games, but I still don't think he is very good.

    A lot of you think I should like Josh because I like Jeff, afterall aren't they similar players? Jeff is much better rebounder, one-on-one defender, Jeff has extremely quick hands and feet, he has an uncanny nose for the ball and feel for the game. Josh can run and jump, good passer and I see nothing else at all. I don't feel Josh brings energy to the game like Jeff and Tyler do and if Josh doesn't bring that than what does he bring?
    Well, Jeff is also a bona fide interior player. He knows how to D up and board down low. Josh has athleticism, but Jeff -although maybe not the quintessential "power" big - brings more "power" to the PF/C.

    I'm not against McBob seeing some time as backup 4/5, but for me only in the absence of Jeff. If he's banged up, minutes consideration in back to back, or foul trouble. Otherwise it should be limited to no minutes for the time being.

    Plus, if the small line up is working, I concur with your statement about having three of Dun, DG, George, Rush on the floor simultaneously. Wing is our most talented position. Of course, we need to be willing to adjust if we play a big front line and it's not working, but you want to get your best players on the floor to the extent that you can.
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  19. #116
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    Default Clueless article by Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Kravitz View Post
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    Maybe Jim O'Brien had a moment of clarity, a sudden thunderbolt of enlightenment.


    Their paper should send Mr. Kravitz (and his editor) back to the first semester of journalism school. It shouldn't be very hard to request a response from the subject of an article, and if you're implying that the man's an idiot it is contrary to journalistic ethics not to, and if the subject refuses to answer, Mr. Kravitz is obliged to tell us. We can only assume that he didn't bother, and prefers promoting his notional narrative to actually calling Jim O'Brien and asking what he thinks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Kravitz View Post
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    Maybe team president Larry Bird, who generally maintains a hands-off approach with his coaches, got in his coach's ear.


    He could also talk to the Pacers' front office. What, exactly, is the barrier? Pick up the phone and get a quote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Kravitz View Post
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    But the Indiana Pacers' perpetually embattled coach seems to have gotten the message and, at this point, I don't care how or from whom he got it: He's playing the young guys.

    Finally.


    Is Kravitz not paying attention? His interpretation of the facts is one thing, but he's got his facts almost completely wrong - in most cases, 180 degrees wrong. The players he says are finally getting the minutes they should be getting are: Paul George, Tyler Hansbrough, Brandon Rush, Darren Collison, and "even Roy Hibbert".

    Roy Hibbert got rotation minutes in his rookie year, and starter's minutes in his second year. He has LOST minutes recently (including in the two recent victories that Kravitz thinks are a turning point), and those minutes (including crunchtime minutes) have mainly gone to Jeff Foster. So the idea that Roy is "Finally" getting minutes is absurd; he's gotten them for two and a half years, and furthermore he's just been demoted.

    Darren Collison has played starter's minutes since arriving.

    Brandon Rush played the most minutes on the team last season (and averaged the third most); he's actually down slightly per game, but let's be straight about it: O'Brien has had him on a fast track since he arrived.

    Tyler was force-fed rotation minutes last year before the injury ended his season. It's true that he's playing more right now than he was at the beginning of the season, but the guy he sent back to the bench, Josh McRoberts, is even younger than he is.

    The only player who's playing more at the expense of an older player is Paul George, who's taking mainly James Posey's minutes, but he's gotten those minutes because of what he's doing now, on the court, not because he'll be good some day.

    Mike Dunleavy is playing MORE, and I think for obvious reasons, but this doesn't fit with Dr. Kravitz' diagnosis, which is once again 180 degrees off.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Kravitz View Post
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    And it's paying off, first with a road victory Tuesday night in Philadelphia and then again Wednesday night in a 102-89 victory over the Dirk Nowitzki-less Dallas Mavericks.
    Those were good wins, with the offense starting to click the way it should (or to use Dr. Kravitz' word, "Finally"), and the defense, at least in the Dallas game, at the excellent level it's been at all year.

    But come on, two January games against depleted competition... let's not get carried away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Kravitz View Post
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    We've been screaming about this for, um, how long?


    Save your larynx, tough guy. That "um, how long?" is dripping with condescension... It's truly obnoxious for a clueless sportswriter to talk about a seasoned NBA lifer as though he were a backward child that the adults have at long last cajoled into not picking his nose anymore.

    There's a name for this: it's called Dunning Krueger Syndrome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Kravitz View Post
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    At this point, I don't care if the Pacers make the playoffs, although it might be impossible to miss it in the Eastern Conference. It's time, past time, to sink or swim with these young players.
    No, I will never understand it being okay with sports fans to miss the playoffs. That's what you play for. But maybe Kravitz isn't a sports fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Kravitz View Post
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    Nothing against the Pacers' veterans, who have played hard and played reasonably well, but if you're not going to be a .500 team with Jeff Foster, James Posey and Mike Dunleavy getting significant time, what's the point of burying the young players?


    As I say, clueless. In the two games that Mr. Kravitz is heralding, Mike Dunleavy got 73 minutes (probably would've been more if not on a back-to-back), and Jeff Foster got 48 minutes. Their minutes are in fact at a season high right now.

    Once again, 180 degrees off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Kravitz View Post
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    "You see it with a lot of players, they get to their third year and it's like they 'get it,' " Granger said. "Brandon definitely looks like one of those guys.''
    I hope that a lot of us can see Brandon's progress (though the productivity gains are modest, his repertoire is clearly a lot bigger and his body is definitely at another level) - but why does Dr. Kravitz put this quote in his article? Because the point of what Granger is saying, contrary to Kravitz' thesis, is that Rush is playing minutes that he has earned, not because one day some day he'll be a player; in any case, Brandon Rush is not "finally" getting minutes, as pointed out above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Kravitz View Post
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    It's understandably tough for O'Brien, who is in the final year of his contract, to stick with young players through thick and a lot of thin. He's being paid to win, to get the Pacers back to the playoffs for the first time in forever, and his future is on the line.
    It has been tough for O'Brien - welcome to re-building. But an NBA coach's future is always on the line; it's what you signed up for. The job he's done has been superb - for a start, a young team that plays defense like a veteran team is a fine achievement. You may have noticed once again that an opponent praised the Pacers' head coach post-game; this time it was Jason Kidd.

    Kravitz proposes a false choice; of course promising young players need to play, including on the court - but that is so valuable for them precisely because they can learn from more experienced players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Kravitz View Post
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    This, though, is the right approach. Let the kids play. Let them develop. And live with the results.
    This is a common refrain on Pacers Digest, too. Court time is the most valuable developmental tool for young players, but what makes it most valuable is not running around willy-nilly with other rookies, but being mentored on-court by leaders who know what to do; there's just no substitute for experience. And if court time were the only developmental tool, then this might be worthy of discussion; but it is not by a long shot. That's a huge positive, in fact - coaches use court time as a reward for excelling off the court, so it's a huge motivator for a Paul George or a Josh McRoberts.

    I'd like to see journalists get un-interested in gossip and more interested in what it is they're actually covering. Before getting there, though, Bob Kravitz is going to have to first get grounded in reality.

    Enough. I need a shower.

    :
    Last edited by O'Bird; 01-14-2011 at 08:03 PM.
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  21. #117
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    Default Re: Nice article by Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    ...I concur with your statement about having three of Dun, DG, George, Rush on the floor simultaneously. Wing is our most talented position.
    So far the 4 in a small lineup has been either Granger or Posey. In other words, a lineup with Dunleavy, Paul George, and Brandon Rush together is I think not going to happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    Of course, we need to be willing to adjust if we play a big front line and it's not working, but you want to get your best players on the floor to the extent that you can.
    I agree. By the way, one thing that you might not expect is how good the small lineups have been defensively.

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