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Thread: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

  1. #76
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

    Am I the only one who likes it when Josh & Tyler are on the floor together?

    Jim sometimes just baffles me with his ideas. We must bench a big now every game because we are going small? Really? There is a law that you can not play four wing players a game?

    How much you wanna bet that James Posey is one of those that never see's street clothes?

    Anyway as Seth pointed out there is an easy way to play the four wings and still have a backup center & power forward.

    But if O'Brien can't bring himself to do that then why not use Josh who can play both spots.

    I don't mind a player being benched and sometimes when you are losing you throw things against the wall to see if they stick, this I don't blame Jim for per say.

    But to take a guy who started all season and now make him DNP-CD for no real reason is just another in a long line of baffeling things.

    BTW I don't hate that Tyler played well. I hate the fact that O'Brien has waited 32 games to see that he could play well.

    I'm sorry but I'm going to disagree with the usuals here (again) but you won't convince me that this is some miracle of two days of practice that Jim decided that Tyler had earned a spot.

    This is Tylers game, nothing different from the Spurs game that we haven't seen from his first game in the NBA other than his jump shot was falling.

    To try and pretend that he was so bad that he could not find a single min. of play vs. the N.Y. Knicks to all of a sudden his practice was so good that he should not only start but play extended min. is just insulting to all of our intellegence.

    My opinion is that this is Jim just once again being a mad scientist and throwing things together and over coaching again.

    However there is a very slight possibility that the Knicks game may have been a breaking point for some of the upper ups in management.

    There is no secret that Jim talks to Larry Bird every day, this his by his own words, about the direction of the team. While Larry is probably never going to tell him what players to play or use he certainly would tell him the direction he wants the team to go. Notice as well that at the same time this happened Brunner put out a p.r. piece about going younger and trying to improve?

    Let's just say it is a possiblity that we weren't the only ones who watched that Knick game shaking our heads that James Posey played every single min. of the 4th quarter.

    While I don't think my latter scenario is out of the question I still believe that Jim is just mixing and matching.

    But to be honest I don't know anymore, that is if I ever did.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  3. #77
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    Default Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Pretty sure he was (accurately) referring to Shabazz.
    Hmmmmm....the quote was from Seth though, maybe he just hit quote on the wrong thread.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Am I the only one who likes it when Josh & Tyler are on the floor together?
    Absolutely not. I have said on several occasions that I really enjoy watching them both out there together. Their games complement each other very well, and it is very effective when they play together.

    Unfortunately we have only seen it for an extended period a couple times. In the first home game against Philly, and then in the game at Washington. Both times it was effective.

    I would like to see it more often, but since it is effective, and that it would make sense to try it more often, I don't expect to see it ever again.

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  6. #79
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    Default Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    This is Tylers game, nothing different from the Spurs game that we haven't seen from his first game in the NBA other than his jump shot was falling.

    Picking on one sentence, I realize, but its something, I've been meaning to post.

    I thought Tyler did show some different/added things these past two games. He went to his left twice, maybe even three times against the Spurs. That's maybe 2 or 3 more times than I've ever seen him do it. Also, he hit a baseline fade jumper in a one on one situation in both the Spurs and NY game, very impressive, I've never seen that one either.

    It's not a trend, but it was two really important things I was hoping to see from him because I thought made the difference in him being a valid offensive threat or a one trick ineffective pony.

    Oh ya, one other thing he didn't get to the line like he had in the past, these last two starts. Seems like a bad thing, but honestly, I'm not sure it is. The way he was getting to the line historically he was getting completely clobbered, taking punishment to the head and shoulders. I think Hansbrough can still get to the line effectively, but I'll sacrifice some of that, for some longevity.

    If Tyler can hit the 19 footer, go left just a little to keep defenders honest, not take 3 or more shots to the head a game, you really maybe have a player...imo.

    Now if they get in a playoff scenario and Hansbrough wants to go Psycho T, fine, but theres just no way to have him do it and stay healthy over a long season, imo.

  7. #80
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    Default Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

    I too saw a different Tyler - he did some things I had not seen before. Remember last season when the Pacers coached remarked how Tyler had no idea how to be the pick man in a pick and roll - well that he has learned and he and Collison ran that play rather well Saturday night. Obviosuly his midrange shooting was on, but I suspect that is to at least a certain degree be his norm.

    He also didn't force shots against bigger defenders, he picked his spots, didn't hold the ball.

    I saw a different player offensively and defensviely he looked better

    Note: I did not watch the Hawks game

  8. #81
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    Default Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I too saw a different Tyler - he did some things I had not seen before. Remember last season when the Pacers coached remarked how Tyler had no idea how to be the pick man in a pick and roll - well that he has learned and he and Collison ran that play rather well Saturday night. Obviosuly his midrange shooting was on, but I suspect that is to at least a certain degree be his norm.

    He also didn't force shots against bigger defenders, he picked his spots, didn't hold the ball.

    I saw a different player offensively and defensviely he looked better

    Note: I did not watch the Hawks game
    Or did you just see a player get extended min. who happened to have his jump shot falling that game?

    Obviously any player should improve with practice and dare I say coaching, but to say that there was some fundamental change in his game that made it so that he got zero min. one game and starting with extended min. the next game just doesn't add up to me.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

    No, I disagree with anyone who says Tyler is the same as last year.

    He's playing (by his previous standards) a more calm game, a more intelligent game (picking his moments/battles instead of just trying to force his favorite move every time), he's running the pick and pop well, he's starting to go left. The turnaround fadeaway he did have last year, but he didn't use it much. As long as he can knock them down, obviously I hope he goes to that a little more often.

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    Default Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    No, I disagree with anyone who says Tyler is the same as last year.

    He's playing (by his previous standards) a more calm game, a more intelligent game (picking his moments/battles instead of just trying to force his favorite move every time), he's running the pick and pop well, he's starting to go left. The turnaround fadeaway he did have last year, but he didn't use it much. As long as he can knock them down, obviously I hope he goes to that a little more often.
    How can any of us make any real judgement about his game based on the inconsistant and limited min. he has played. I'm not saying he hasn't added or taken away basic concepts of his game, I just think overall he is still the player I first saw in his first game.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    No, I disagree with anyone who says Tyler is the same as last year.

    He's playing (by his previous standards) a more calm game, a more intelligent game (picking his moments/battles instead of just trying to force his favorite move every time), he's running the pick and pop well, he's starting to go left. The turnaround fadeaway he did have last year, but he didn't use it much. As long as he can knock them down, obviously I hope he goes to that a little more often.

    But that isn't a different Tyler. It was a more effective Tyler, but he played the game the same way he always does.

  13. #85
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    Default Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

    I think we are getting mired in semantics.

    Is Tyler different? To a certain degree yes - if nothing else he is in his second year.

    Is he still the same player as we first saw a year ago? yes. Of course. Thankfully he is still full of energy, spirit, fight, hustle. So yes he is still the same player. Better yes, but he is the same.

    The original point was brought up to make the claim that he didn't change enough to go from DNP-CD to 36 minutes played in 1 game. OK, probably not, what do you want - except - the coach is an idiot. (we could probably close half the current threads if everyone just repeated the line, "the coach is an idiot" But what fun would that be

  14. #86
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    Default Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I think we are getting mired in semantics.

    Is Tyler different? To a certain degree yes - if nothing else he is in his second year.

    Is he still the same player as we first saw a year ago? yes. Of course. Thankfully he is still full of energy, spirit, fight, hustle. So yes he is still the same player. Better yes, but he is the same.

    The original point was brought up to make the claim that he didn't change enough to go from DNP-CD to 36 minutes played in 1 game. OK, probably not, what do you want - except - the coach is an idiot. (we could probably close half the current threads if everyone just repeated the line, "the coach is an idiot" But what fun would that be

    Nope, that's all I wanted.

    Let it be known from this day forward that it is decreed that "the coach is an idiot" per Uncle Buck.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    But that isn't a different Tyler. It was a more effective Tyler, but he played the game the same way he always does.
    Semantics.

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    Default Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Semantics.
    I would normally agree but we have some poseters on here that say Josh is a "different" player than last year and they don't mean just more efficient.

    I'm just trying to make sure we're all on the same page, and we're not talking about the different definitions of different.

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    Default Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

    Whats funny is last year, Obie was mad in November that he didn't have Tyler available for enough minutes (shin splints) that he wanted to play him.

    This year he just didn't play him... I mean yes he didn't get much experience in his rookie year, but did he become LESS of a player than the one he wanted to play more than 20 mins a game as a true rookie.

    If anything with your double/double security blanket in NJ, you should have wanted to play him 40 mins a game.

    It doesn't make sense, why the two ideas.....don't make me go into 'A few good men' monolog here.

    Even if Tyler is or is not different, he certainly isn't WORSE now, is he?

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    Default Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

    Josh was the better player last year. I think that's changed.

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    Default Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    That's kinda becoming a popular insulting word with you, isn't it?
    To my knowledge that is the first and only time I have used that word in this forum, and defiantly the first time I have used it in so long that I can't even remember the last time I used it prior to this instance.

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    Default Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

    Anyways, this shouldn't be an argument about who is better. There is no real way to accurately judge them as they are two completely different players. The question should be who is most effective in which situation. To be more specific who is more effective with the starters, and who do you want to have come in for the starters.

    To me the obvious answer is McRoberts fits best with the starters as he isn't looking for score every time he touches the ball, he is just as likely to be trying to put the ball in the best spot for Granger, Hibbert, or Dun/Rush to score as he is to look to score himself. Outside of Foster he is probably the least selfish player, and he is the best PF/C at getting the ball to the best option at that moment.

    When the scorers on offense go to the bench that is when Tyler becomes the better option because he is more of a scorer than McRoberts. At the same time since he will more than likely be playing against other back-ups he will have a much easier time scoring the ball more efficiently.

    This is what it comes down to.

    McRoberts brings flow
    Hans brings scoring

    Starters have plenty of scoring
    Bench needs more scoring


    McRoberts, Hansbrough, and Hibbert should be the 1st three bigs on this team. With Hibbert being the full time C, McRoberts switching between PF and C, and Hansbrough being full time PF, then throw in Foster for any left over minutes or if one of the players is just playing like complete ****.

    In some ways this is kind of like Dale Davis and Antonio Davis. AD was the better offensive player, and always would have been better as the center of attention in the post than DD. DD though fit with the starters better though, he may not have been as much as an offensive threat, but the starters didn't need another offensive threat. It was the bench that needed the better offensive threat. Now granted this isn't a perfect comparison. McRoberts is no Dale and conversely Dale was no McRoberts, but that isn't my point here, my point is that the best scorer shouldn't always been the player who starts. If you already have 3 or 4 players who can score, more times than not it will be better to play the player who does something different than to play another scorer.

    McRoberts is a glue guy, where as Hans is a focal point, and you can only have so many focal points playing at 1 time.

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    Default Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

    Well said Eleazar. Josh and Tyler are different players. They both have roles to fulfill on this team. The fact the O'Brien cannot find a place for them both, anymore, says more about Jim O'Brien than it does about either Josh or Tyler.

    It isn't about who is better, it is about who is the better fit for the necessary role.

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