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Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

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Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

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  • #61
    Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

    Originally posted by CableKC View Post
    I'll let Seth expand on this....but my initial response is that he has some solid passing skills for a Big Man and good offensive awareness. To me, he is a good enough Player to be considered IMHO a "1st Big Man off the Bench / Emergency Starter" on any Team...essentially a 7th/8th Man rotational Player.
    I agree. If anyone thinks McRoberts is not in the NBA in 5 years, they will be proven wrong. I see him as at least a 7-10 guy on a .500 team.

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    • #62
      Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

      Originally posted by CableKC View Post
      I'll let Seth expand on this....but my initial response is that he has some solid passing skills for a Big Man and good offensive awareness. To me, he is a good enough Player to be considered IMHO a "1st Big Man off the Bench / Emergency Starter" on any Team...essentially a 7th/8th Man rotational Player.
      josh does lots of things ok. but nothing really good. until he is a good defender and rebounder, he will have trouble cracking any decent NBA rotation.

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

        Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
        I agree. If anyone thinks McRoberts is not in the NBA in 5 years, they will be proven wrong. I see him as at least a 7-10 guy on a .500 team.
        Don't get me wrong....I don't think that he's anywhere near the "Legend of McBob" that we all wish that he would be....but to say that he's one doesn't "see anything other than dunking that would qualify McRoberts to be on an NBA roster" is short-sighted.
        Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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        • #64
          Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

          Originally posted by CableKC View Post
          I'll let Seth expand on this....but my initial response is that he has some solid passing skills for a Big Man and good offensive awareness. To me, he is a good enough Player to be considered IMHO a "1st Big Man off the Bench / Emergency Starter" on any Team...essentially a 7th/8th Man rotational Player.
          Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
          I agree. If anyone thinks McRoberts is not in the NBA in 5 years, they will be proven wrong. I see him as at least a 7-10 guy on a .500 team.
          He might catch with another team running some sort of passing offense, if more of those guys get hired in the league.

          But I don't think a lot of teams would put a premium on a big man who's best attributes are dunking, passing, and awareness.

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

            Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
            I put this out pre-draft, statistically Tyler DID NOT CHANGE his final 3 years at UNC. His rebounding went down his senior year.
            This was factually inaccurate when you arguing it 18 months ago and remains so now. Which is one of the reasons why this argument goes no where.

            Is any one else having trouble following these rules?

            1) College is irrelevant, unless you are pointing out statistical decline.

            2) Being older with less professional experience is clearly more advantageous than being younger with more professional experience.

            3) Your statistics when you are injured and have missed training camp are relevant. Your statistics when you are riding the pine and only getting 8 minutes a game unfairly represent you as a player.

            4) Passing, dunks, and handling skills are critical intangibles for your 4 to possess. Toughness, strength, and power are not.

            Honestly, I'm mostly disappointed in myself for getting sucked back into this conversation 18 months later.

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            • #66
              Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

              Simply put the positive impact that Tyler had on the Spurs game was far superior to anything Josh is capable of doing.

              We can spend forever disecting stats ever since Josh and Tyler were born, but if it isn't obvious by just watching the games, then I have no way to convince you
              Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-09-2011, 09:16 PM.

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              • #67
                Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

                Josh suffers from lack of game definition. And with a coach who lacks consistent role definitions, this is even more disruptive to Josh's development.

                And yes a player like Josh needs development. He didn't come out of the womb ready to contribute. And you can show me the flawed per36 stats all you want.
                Last edited by Major Cold; 01-10-2011, 12:29 PM.

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                • #68
                  Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

                  Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                  Simply put the positive impact that Tyler had on the Spurs game was far superior to anything Josh is capable of doing.

                  We can spend forever disecting stats ever since Josh and Tyler were born, but if it isn't obvious by just watching the games, then I have no way to convince you
                  Tyler played great in that game. That is indisputable. Really made Jim look foolish.

                  He was put in the lineup to improve the offense. The Pacers scored 87 points. I wouldn't call that a huge improvement. He got buckets, which the team needs, but he really doesn't add anything that improves the offense. To say simply that Tyler has a superior impact to Josh based on one game would be misleading.

                  Tyler scores, but he doesn't do anything to help his teammates. He is the ideal player to bring off the bench when Hibbert, Granger, and Collison are struggling offensively. They have struggled offensively for a month, and O'Brien made the mistake of scapegoating Josh for those struggles. He had Hansbrough on the bench, and should have been using him to supplement his team's struggling offense. It worked in November, but he never thought to try in December. It is entirely perplexing. Then in January, he decided to take a guy he never played, for no reason, and throw him into the starting lineup. He took the starter, and for no reason, decided to nail him down to the bench. Another classic example of Jim O'Brien throwing **** against the wall to see what sticks.

                  There is no method to the madness.

                  Tyler played 36 minutes and took 19 shots. Josh has never played more than 30 and has only taken double digit shots twice, his most attempts being 12. They aren't the same players. They don't have the same roles. You should not act like they do.

                  Tyler had more plays run for him in the Spurs game than Josh has had run for him all season. The truth is, Josh has probably not had a single play run for him. There is no reason for O'Brien to be unable to find a place, on this team, for both Josh and Tyler. The fact that he is not capable of that is a major black mark on his resume. They both should be getting at least
                  25-30 minutes every single night. The only reason they aren't is because JOB in incapable of putting this roster in the best position to be most successful.

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                  • #69
                    Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

                    I don't see what the big deal is Josh was only holding down the spot until Tyler got healthy and up to speed. Don't get me wrong he should dress and play some but I honestly can't see how anyone thinks he's better than Tyler and JMac would never even got any real burn here if Tyler didn't have so many things happen to him since getting drafted in the first place.

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                    • #70
                      Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

                      Originally posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
                      He was put in the lineup to improve the offense. The Pacers scored 87 points. I wouldn't call that a huge improvement. He got buckets, which the team needs, but he really doesn't add anything that improves the offense. To say simply that Tyler has a superior impact to Josh based on one game would be misleading.

                      Tyler played 36 minutes and took 19 shots. Josh has never played more than 30 and has only taken double digit shots twice, his most attempts being 12. They aren't the same players. They don't have the same roles. You should not act like they do.
                      I wasn't the one in this thread who started the comparison between Josh and Tyler, I was just responding to it.

                      I fuind your comment about Tyler not adding anything to the offense a little off base. How about his offensive rebounding, and the fact that teams will start to cover Tyler a lot closer than they would have. Another big thing teams know they have to have size on Tyler so maybe that might allow Roy to play against a smaller guy

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                      • #71
                        Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

                        Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                        I wasn't the one in this thread who started the comparison between Josh and Tyler, I was just responding to it.

                        I fuind your comment about Tyler not adding anything to the offense a little off base. How about his offensive rebounding, and the fact that teams will start to cover Tyler a lot closer than they would have. Another big thing teams know they have to have size on Tyler so maybe that might allow Roy to play against a smaller guy
                        I'd like to add onto this and say Tyler's help defense against the Spurs was very good. I believe he took at least one charge, maybe two. He also altered several shots after Manu beat his man. I did not watch the Atlanta game, so I cannot comment there.

                        I believe Larry needs to add a starting PF with size, who can play minutes at the 5. We can then essentially run a 3 man frontcourt rotation with that player, Roy, and Hans. If the Melo deal goes through, Nene comes to mind.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

                          Originally posted by purdue101 View Post
                          I'd like to add onto this and say Tyler's help defense against the Spurs was very good. I believe he took at least one charge, maybe two. He also altered several shots after Manu beat his man. I did not watch the Atlanta game, so I cannot comment there.

                          I believe Larry needs to add a starting PF with size, who can play minutes at the 5. We can then essentially run a 3 man frontcourt rotation with that player, Roy, and Hans. If the Melo deal goes through, Nene comes to mind.
                          i totally agree. especially the bolded parts. nene looks to be a guy that might fit the pacer needs and is available.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

                            Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                            I wasn't the one in this thread who started the comparison between Josh and Tyler, I was just responding to it.

                            I fuind your comment about Tyler not adding anything to the offense a little off base. How about his offensive rebounding, and the fact that teams will start to cover Tyler a lot closer than they would have. Another big thing teams know they have to have size on Tyler so maybe that might allow Roy to play against a smaller guy
                            I don't think he really adds much of anything to the offense with the starters. He just changes it. He gets shots up like they are going out of the style, so I suppose it is just a matter of preference. Do you want Granger, Hibbert, and Collison being the main offensive threats and shot takers? That is my preference, but if not, then do you want Hansbrough being the main shot taker?

                            Because when he is on the floor, he has to be the main offensive option in order to be effective. Other than scoring for himself, he doesn't contribute enough offensively in other areas. He can't and doesn't pass, he can't and doesn't dribble, he doesn't try to set up his teammates through screens. He sets screens to try to free himself up for a shot. I don't think it is an issue of selfishness, I think that's just the only way he knows.

                            He does get offensive rebounds. Many of them come off of his own misses and blocked attempts when under the basket, but he gets them nonetheless.

                            When McRoberts was not being asked to float along the three-point line like Troy Murphy 2.0, he was getting offensive rebounds at a very high rate. Probably too high of a rate for him to be able to maintain it over a full season, but that dimension of his game was there, and was taken away from him when O'Brien changed strategy out of the blue.

                            Dejuan Blair is one of the few guys in the league that is an ideal matchup for Hansbrough, and he took advantage of his opportunity. Boozer in Chicago, Millsap in Utah, also immediately come to mind. I don't think he can be as successful against the taller, longer, more athletic players that are on a majority of the teams, but we are going to get a chance to find out. I have not yet watched the Hawks game, but I don't think he matches up well with Josh Smith at all, so I'm curious to see how he does. I've checked the box score, but I don't believe that you can ever truly judge a player by numbers alone. I have it recorded and will try to watch it tonight after work.

                            In the first game of the season against the Spurs, McRoberts had 11 points on 6 shots, and 6 rebounds in 24 minutes as the Pacers scored 109 points. On Friday night, Hansbrough had 23 points on 19 shots, and 12 rebounds in 36 minutes as the Pacers scored 87 points. Give McRoberts a full quarter more of playing time, and triple his shots, and who is to say that he doesn't come close to equaling the numbers that Hansbrough produced? There is no way to know, because he has never had that opportunity.

                            Regardless, I think McRoberts' skills as a passer, ball handler, and screener offensively, are a better fit as a member of the starting lineup. Hansbrough is the ideal scoring punch to bring off the bench. It worked in November, and I still can't understand why O'Brien decided he needed to change things up in December, but he did. He dug himself into a hole by making that move, and now I think he is just digging himself deeper with this January change.

                            Right now, we are 14-20. There are 11 games to go in January, 5 at home and 6 on the road. If we win more than 3 games this month, I will be pleasantly surprised. We could easily be looking at 17-28, or worse, by the time the calendar flips, and becomes time for O'Brien to make another mystery change. If, we do indeed, slip more than 10 games below .500, will O'Brien make the same mistake he made before and scapegoat Hansbrough as the reason for the problem? Then what? Does Posey become the starter? Does he decide to permanently shift Granger to PF? Do Hansbrough and McRoberts both end up in suits behind the bench? Where does it end?

                            Since December 1st, and the strategy change, we have played 18 games. We have lost 13 of them. The only teams we have beaten? Toronto, Charlotte, Cleveland, New Orleans, and Washington, all of them at home. That isn't exactly a Murderer's Row of opponents. Things have been ugly, but they are likely to get much worse. The only consolation to all this losing would be a change at the top. That is unlikely to happen, so I hope everybody is prepared for a lot of disappointment.

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                            • #74
                              Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

                              Originally posted by spazzxb View Post
                              Given his post count and timing of his visit to our boards This guy seems to be more of a Tyler fan than a pacers fan. I wouldn't bother trying to persuade him about whats good for the team. He reminds me a lot of the poster Phsyco T. (who isn't here anymore). Also the NC/ Duke thing needs to be differentiated from the nba Josh and Tyler comparisons because the college fans turn this debate into one big cluster____.
                              Wait, did you just say that Naptown Seth was a Tyler Hansbrough fanboy?

                              hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahah!!!!!!!!!

                              You might want to go back in history and review that comment.


                              Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

                                Originally posted by Peck View Post
                                Wait, did you just say that Naptown Seth was a Tyler Hansbrough fanboy?

                                hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahah!!!!!!!!!

                                You might want to go back in history and review that comment.
                                Pretty sure he was (accurately) referring to Shabazz.

                                Comment

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