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Thread: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

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    Default Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    reading about how bad a coach JOB is. how if he was fired, a new system, suddenly all our pacer players would suddenly improve and magically the pacers would become a 60 win team. maybe not 60 wins but much much better. that strikes me as silly thinking.

    but maybe you all are right. maybe it is JOB. but to be sure I thought it might be fun to look at our players and see where they fall in the pantheon of NBA players at each position.

    danny granger. danny is either a top 5 or top 10 SF. I think we all agree at that. LeBron James, Carmello Anthony, Kevin Durant, Paul Pierce, maybe Gerald Wallace and maybe Rudy Gay are better. but danny is a top player.

    roy hibbert. early in the season, I though roy was a top 10 center. not so sure any more. players that are better: Dwight Howard, Joakim Noah, Brook Lopez, Al Horford, Nene [maybe], Chris Kamen [maybe], Andrew Bogut, Al Jefferson, Andrew Bynum, Shaq, Tim Duncan, Pau Gasol, Marc Gasol [maybe], Tyson Chandler [probably not], JaValle McGee [maybe], Greg Oden [who knows]. the way he is playing now, you could add guys like Demarcus Cousins to the list. there are enough guys here to say that roy is no more than an average starting center in the NBA.

    Josh McRoberts. josh is probably the worst starting PF in the NBA right now. certainly in the bottom 5. if someone wants to find 5 legit starting PF that are worse than josh, be my guest. I don’t think there are 5.

    Brandon Rush/Mike Dunleavy. below average. Joe Johnson, Ray Allen, Stephen Jackson, Aarin Afflalo [???], Ben Gordon, Richard Hamilton, Monta Ellis, Kevin Martin, Eric Gordon, Kobe Bryant, OJ Mayo[ probably not], Dwayne Wade, John Salmons [???], Wesley Johnson [ probably not], Jason Richardson, Andre Iguodala, Evan Turner [???], Vince Carter [???], Brandon Roy [???],Emanuel Ginobili, again, there may be guys I left out or should not have put in, feel free to edit the list, but there have to be at least 20 guys better at the SG position which puts Rushleavy in the bottom third of the league. definitely below average.

    Darren Collison. at the start of the season, I hoped this guy was going to be a top 15 guy. not sure that is true. Rajon Rondo, Derrick Rose, Jason Kidd, Chauncy Billups, Stephen Curry, Baron Davis, Brandon Jennings, Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Steve Nash, Tyreke Evans, Tony Parker, George Hill, Deron Williams and John Wall are definitely better. Mo Williams [???] , Aaron Brooks [???], Kyle Lowry [???], Mike Conley [???], Jameer Nelson [???], Gilbert Arenas [???], Jrue Holiday [???], Andre Miller [probably] are maybe/maybe not better. my list makes Darren just below average and if any of the maybes are really better, that puts him into the bottom third.

    , no wonder the pacers suck. right now, our players are not very good. I do not think any coach, including larry brown, could win with this bunch. to have more wins, the pacers need better players, or the player they have now have to get much much much better.
    Last edited by xIndyFan; 01-05-2011 at 09:18 PM.

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    reading about how bad a coach JOB is. how if he was fired, a new system, suddenly all our pacer players would suddenly improve and magically the pacers would become a 60 win team. maybe not 60 wins but much much better. that strikes me as silly thinking.

    but maybe you all are right. maybe it is JOB. but to be sure I thought it might be fun to look at our players and see where they fall in the pantheon of NBA players at each position.

    danny granger. danny is either a top 5 or top 10 player. I think we all agree at that. LeBron James, Carmello Anthony, Kevin Durant, Paul Pierce, maybe Gerald Wallace and maybe Rudy Gay are better. but danny is a top player.

    roy hibbert. early in the season, I though roy was a top 10 center. not so sure any more. players that are better: Dwight Howard, Joakim Noah, Brook Lopez, Al Horford, Nene [maybe], Chris Kamen [maybe], Andrew Bogut, Al Jefferson, Andrew Bynum, Shaq, Tim Duncan, Pau Gasol, Marc Gasol [maybe], Tyson Chandler [probably not], JaValle McGee [maybe], Greg Oden [who knows]. the way he is playing now, you could add guys like Demarcus Cousins to the list. there are enough guys here to say that roy is no more than an average starting center in the NBA.

    Josh McRoberts. josh is probably the worst starting PF in the NBA right now. certainly in the bottom 5. if someone wants to find 5 legit starting PF that are worse than josh, be my guest. I don’t think there are 5.

    Brandon Rush/Mike Dunleavy. below average. Joe Johnson, Ray Allen, Stephen Jackson, Aarin Afflalo [???], Ben Gordon, Richard Hamilton, Monta Ellis, Kevin Martin, Eric Gordon, Kobe Bryant, OJ Mayo[ probably not], Dwayne Wade, John Salmons [???], Wesley Johnson [ probably not], Jason Richardson, Andre Iguodala, Evan Turner [???], Vince Carter [???], Brandon Roy [???],Emanuel Ginobili, again, there may be guys I left out or should not have put in, feel free to edit the list, but there have to be at least 20 guys better at the SG position which puts Rushleavy in the bottom third of the league. definitely below average.

    Darren Collison. at the start of the season, I hoped this guy was going to be a top 15 guy. not sure that is true. Rajon Rondo, Derrick Rose, Jason Kidd, Chauncy Billups, Stephen Curry, Baron Davis, Brandon Jennings, Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Steve Nash, Tyreke Evans, Tony Parker, George Hill, Deron Williams and John Wall are definitely better. Mo Williams [???] , Aaron Brooks [???], Kyle Lowry [???], Mike Conley [???], Jameer Nelson [???], Gilbert Arenas [???], Jrue Holiday [???], Andre Miller [probably] are maybe/maybe not better. my list makes Darren just below average and if any of the maybes are really better, that puts him into the bottom third.

    , no wonder the pacers suck. right now, our players are not very good. I do not think any coach, including larry brown, could win with this bunch. to have more wins, the pacers need better players, or the player they have now have to get much much much better.
    theres kobe, dwight howard, chris paul, amare, derrick rose, monta ellis dirk, deron williams, rajon rondo....all those are better than danny...but danny is still good

    But I definately agree with everything else you said.
    Last edited by PacerPenguins; 01-05-2011 at 09:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    reading about how bad a coach JOB is. how if he was fired, a new system, suddenly all our pacer players would suddenly improve and magically the pacers would become a 60 win team. maybe not 60 wins but much much better. that strikes me as silly thinking.

    but maybe you all are right. maybe it is JOB. but to be sure I thought it might be fun to look at our players and see where they fall in the pantheon of NBA players at each position.

    danny granger. danny is either a top 5 or top 10 player. I think we all agree at that. LeBron James, Carmello Anthony, Kevin Durant, Paul Pierce, maybe Gerald Wallace and maybe Rudy Gay are better. but danny is a top player.roy hibbert. early in the season, I though roy was a top 10 center. not so sure any more. players that are better: Dwight Howard, Joakim Noah, Brook Lopez, Al Horford, Nene [maybe], Chris Kamen [maybe], Andrew Bogut, Al Jefferson, Andrew Bynum, Shaq, Tim Duncan, Pau Gasol, Marc Gasol [maybe], Tyson Chandler [probably not], JaValle McGee [maybe], Greg Oden [who knows]. the way he is playing now, you could add guys like Demarcus Cousins to the list. there are enough guys here to say that roy is no more than an average starting center in the NBA.

    Josh McRoberts. josh is probably the worst starting PF in the NBA right now. certainly in the bottom 5. if someone wants to find 5 legit starting PF that are worse than josh, be my guest. I donít think there are 5.

    Brandon Rush/Mike Dunleavy. below average. Joe Johnson, Ray Allen, Stephen Jackson, Aarin Afflalo [???], Ben Gordon, Richard Hamilton, Monta Ellis, Kevin Martin, Eric Gordon, Kobe Bryant, OJ Mayo[ probably not], Dwayne Wade, John Salmons [???], Wesley Johnson [ probably not], Jason Richardson, Andre Iguodala, Evan Turner [???], Vince Carter [???], Brandon Roy [???],Emanuel Ginobili, again, there may be guys I left out or should not have put in, feel free to edit the list, but there have to be at least 20 guys better at the SG position which puts Rushleavy in the bottom third of the league. definitely below average.

    Darren Collison. at the start of the season, I hoped this guy was going to be a top 15 guy. not sure that is true. Rajon Rondo, Derrick Rose, Jason Kidd, Chauncy Billups, Stephen Curry, Baron Davis, Brandon Jennings, Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Steve Nash, Tyreke Evans, Tony Parker, George Hill, Deron Williams and John Wall are definitely better. Mo Williams [???] , Aaron Brooks [???], Kyle Lowry [???], Mike Conley [???], Jameer Nelson [???], Gilbert Arenas [???], Jrue Holiday [???], Andre Miller [probably] are maybe/maybe not better. my list makes Darren just below average and if any of the maybes are really better, that puts him into the bottom third.

    , no wonder the pacers suck. right now, our players are not very good. I do not think any coach, including larry brown, could win with this bunch. to have more wins, the pacers need better players, or the player they have now have to get much much much better.
    rudy gay and melo arent even top 10 players melo might be 10. Danny is no where close to top 10.

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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    I think he meant that Danny is a top 5-10 SF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    rudy gay and melo arent even top 10 players melo might be 10. Danny is no where close to top 10.
    sorry i didn't make it clear. top 10 at his position.

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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    reading about how bad a coach JOB is. how if he was fired, a new system, suddenly all our pacer players would suddenly improve and magically the pacers would become a 60 win team. maybe not 60 wins but much much better. that strikes me as silly thinking.

    but maybe you all are right. maybe it is JOB. but to be sure I thought it might be fun to look at our players and see where they fall in the pantheon of NBA players at each position.

    danny granger. danny is either a top 5 or top 10 player. I think we all agree at that. LeBron James, Carmello Anthony, Kevin Durant, Paul Pierce, maybe Gerald Wallace and maybe Rudy Gay are better. but danny is a top player.

    roy hibbert. early in the season, I though roy was a top 10 center. not so sure any more. players that are better: Dwight Howard, Joakim Noah, Brook Lopez, Al Horford, Nene [maybe], Chris Kamen [maybe], Andrew Bogut, Al Jefferson, Andrew Bynum, Shaq, Tim Duncan, Pau Gasol, Marc Gasol [maybe], Tyson Chandler [probably not], JaValle McGee [maybe], Greg Oden [who knows]. the way he is playing now, you could add guys like Demarcus Cousins to the list. there are enough guys here to say that roy is no more than an average starting center in the NBA.

    Josh McRoberts. josh is probably the worst starting PF in the NBA right now. certainly in the bottom 5. if someone wants to find 5 legit starting PF that are worse than josh, be my guest. I don’t think there are 5.

    Brandon Rush/Mike Dunleavy. below average. Joe Johnson, Ray Allen, Stephen Jackson, Aarin Afflalo [???], Ben Gordon, Richard Hamilton, Monta Ellis, Kevin Martin, Eric Gordon, Kobe Bryant, OJ Mayo[ probably not], Dwayne Wade, John Salmons [???], Wesley Johnson [ probably not], Jason Richardson, Andre Iguodala, Evan Turner [???], Vince Carter [???], Brandon Roy [???],Emanuel Ginobili, again, there may be guys I left out or should not have put in, feel free to edit the list, but there have to be at least 20 guys better at the SG position which puts Rushleavy in the bottom third of the league. definitely below average.

    Darren Collison. at the start of the season, I hoped this guy was going to be a top 15 guy. not sure that is true. Rajon Rondo, Derrick Rose, Jason Kidd, Chauncy Billups, Stephen Curry, Baron Davis, Brandon Jennings, Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Steve Nash, Tyreke Evans, Tony Parker, George Hill, Deron Williams and John Wall are definitely better. Mo Williams [???] , Aaron Brooks [???], Kyle Lowry [???], Mike Conley [???], Jameer Nelson [???], Gilbert Arenas [???], Jrue Holiday [???], Andre Miller [probably] are maybe/maybe not better. my list makes Darren just below average and if any of the maybes are really better, that puts him into the bottom third.

    , no wonder the pacers suck. right now, our players are not very good. I do not think any coach, including larry brown, could win with this bunch. to have more wins, the pacers need better players, or the player they have now have to get much much much better.
    I disagree with the premise here.

    I don't think anyone believes we will win 60 games by firing JOB.

    I do think it will improve the team by:
    1. creating stable rotations which will create more consistent playing time and thus more consistent play.
    2. providing playing time to younger players who need to develop if they are ever expected to perform like we would like them to.
    3. Move the offense from a spread PF 3 point shooting non-sensical cluster ****.
    4. Improve team morale (I don't think any of our players enjoy playing for this guy.)
    5. Allow the point guards to play to there strengths.
    6. Maybe allow the team to run a pick or roll or 2

    We won't be an elite team, but at least our players may play up to their potential or develop, which is not happening under JOB.

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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    I'm pretty sure he ment top 10 out of small forwards.

    My problem with JOB isn't the players, but how he uses them. Hibbert and Collison best talents aren't really used well on this team. I think both can be very good with a different coach and (in hibbert's case, at least) some added muscle.

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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    For the record, I believe this team's talent is in the 40-45 win range in the East.

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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    We possess the talent to be better than our record indicates, is there really more than needs said.

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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    When ranking the centers, keep in mind that Roy doesn't get injured for twenty-thirty games a season like Andrew Bynum, Andrew Bogut, and Joakim Noah. I'm not saying he's better than them, I personally prefer him to Bynum due to injuries and playmaking ability, but just wanted to point that out.
    Last edited by BringJackBack; 01-05-2011 at 09:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    We're more talented than our record shows. There has been really good coaches and players in this league that have come out and said the Pacers are a playoff team this year, yet we keep inching closer to being out of the playoff picture.

    Yeah I know it's early in the season still, but it's tough if you feel like you're wasting talent.

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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    They are young, and they haven't played much, so I can't answer that.

    I think Hibbert will end up being a top 5 Center, Danny is a borderline all star.

    I think Brandon, Collison, AJ, Josh and Tyler all have the potential to be good starters

    I think Dun is a solid player and Posey brings a few intangibles.

    I think Paul George has the potential to be the best player on the Roster, and the best player in Indy since Reggie Miller.

    I don't know what Lance could bring to the table. And everyone else is irrelevant.

    Essentially, I think we are a few years of developement another borderline all star player (like Iggy) and the right coach/system away from being a top team in the East. And I think with solid basketball and playing the right guys (Price, Hans, and Paul George, instead of whatever vets) this team would be pretty fun to watch. Despite the fact that they may not win too many more than what they are winning now.

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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    I think this is a .500 team best case ceiling.

    I don't dislike RH, but if he turns out to be a top 5 center, I will jump for joy and eat my hat. He would have to improve his offensive game and rebounding immensely. Not totally beyond the realm of possibility I guess, but his lack of lower body strength is really going to hurt him in both those things. His shot blocking and passing are both good.

    DG may be top 10 at SF, but if he's the man, that's really not saying much as far as impact/go-to for the team as a whole. I mean with our current roster at this point in time, we need like top 3 at the postion. He's much closer to 10 than to 1.
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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    How good are the Pacers players?

    IMHO.....the Talent level of this Team is average at best FOR NOW. We are broken up along the following lines:

    - 2 Starting quality Players ( Granger and Hibbert ) on a very good Team along
    - a bunch of "Starting quality Players on a bad Team / Backup Rotational Players on a very Good Team" ( Dunleavy, McBob, BRush and Foster ) .
    - a bunch of Players with potential that will make mistakes ( because they are young ) but aren't allowed to make mistakes and therefore are not benefitting from the current Coach's rotations ( PG, Hansbrough, AJ and Lance )
    - a bunch of rotational Players that IMHO are mediocre to decent Players that only has their Experience to rely upon ( TJ, Solo and Posey ).

    Add all of this up and we have IMHO a Team that is average at best that can either underperform or overperform based off of how the Coach guides this Team. Our performance in November is an example ( to me ) how JO'B can make the most of the talent to "overperform"...whereas December is an example of how JO'B can make the Team "underperform" based off of how he Coaches the Team.

    That is why I do not FULLY blame JO'B for where we are now....we aren't that talented in the first place....but he should share a large part of his blame based off of what he decides to do with the rotations.
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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    I think this team can be like the Bucks.

    We don't need a superstar player to make us a good playoff team. We need a good coach who is willing to work with the young players we have and run a system that suits everyone and one where we let the PG (DC) play like he knows and slow it down on the offense.

    This team is very inconsistent and that's how it's been with this team.
    Last edited by Trophy; 01-05-2011 at 10:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    I think a .500 team.

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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    Xindyfan this is not meant as a slam at you I am just using your post as a jumping point to get up on my high horse. Your question is valid & I’m glad that you asked it so when I say some of you, I am not talking about you.

    Now that I have that out of the way I want to say this.

    What some of you fail to understand and this I think is really where the biggest divide between people here on the board is this.

    Some of us don’t give a damn about what our record is or will be this season. I said in my first posting trying to give O’Brien a break that I wasn’t going to judge this season on wins or losses but on development and a changing of the style of play.

    Let us all concede this right now so that we can all give Jim O’Brien a break and an excuse if you will. There is not enough talent on this team right now to be a contender.

    There might be enough talent on this team right now to be a peripheral playoff team, but I doubt that it has the talent level to go very far.

    To me and I’m sure others that is not and has never been the point.

    We understand that they may lose. We understand that they are losing right now.

    It is how they are losing and the players that are losing that we have issues with.

    Yes, I’m sure if he played Josh & Tyler at the four with Roy & Jeff at the five and Brandon, Danny & Paul at the wings with Collison getting the majority of min. at the point guard spot someone would complain if we weren’t winning.

    But at the end of the day most of us understand this isn’t a finished product.

    So with that in mind nobody that I have ever read or seen on here has suggested that getting rid of Jim O’Brien will somehow magically turn the club into a juggernaut that no one can stop.

    Our problem is that we do understand that the talent level is not good enough to compete right now for anything of real significance so what we are looking for is development of players who will be here when we are possibly contending again. We don’t want to see massive amounts of minutes by (I’m just going to go ahead and say it) James Posey while Tyler Hansbrough sits and does nothing on the bench or while Josh McRoberts gets sometimes 12 min. or less a game.

    So to answer the question in general, no a new coach will not have a significantly better record than what we have right now however what we are wanting is for other players to be the focus of the team and a different style of play.

    Here is another big secret. We are losing now we are losing with Jim’s style of play and have lost with his style of play for over three years. We have lost 11 of our previous 16 games and each game during that spell we seem to revert more and more to his old faithful.

    A new coach may not change the overall record although I will say I don’t think they will do any worse, but they damn well will change the direction of the game and the players who are playing.


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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

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    Xindyfan this is not meant as a slam at you I am just using your post as a jumping point to get up on my high horse. Your question is valid & Iím glad that you asked it so when I say some of you, I am not talking about you.

    Now that I have that out of the way I want to say this.

    What some of you fail to understand and this I think is really where the biggest divide between people here on the board is this.

    Some of us donít give a damn about what our record is or will be this season. I said in my first posting trying to give OíBrien a break that I wasnít going to judge this season on wins or losses but on development and a changing of the style of play.

    Let us all concede this right now so that we can all give Jim OíBrien a break and an excuse if you will. There is not enough talent on this team right now to be a contender.

    There might be enough talent on this team right now to be a peripheral playoff team, but I doubt that it has the talent level to go very far.

    To me and Iím sure others that is not and has never been the point.

    We understand that they may lose. We understand that they are losing right now.

    It is how they are losing and the players that are losing that we have issues with.

    Yes, Iím sure if he played Josh & Tyler at the four with Roy & Jeff at the five and Brandon, Danny & Paul at the wings with Collison getting the majority of min. at the point guard spot someone would complain if we werenít winning.

    But at the end of the day most of us understand this isnít a finished product.

    So with that in mind nobody that I have ever read or seen on here has suggested that getting rid of Jim OíBrien will somehow magically turn the club into a juggernaut that no one can stop.

    Our problem is that we do understand that the talent level is not good enough to compete right now for anything of real significance so what we are looking for is development of players who will be here when we are possibly contending again. We donít want to see massive amounts of minutes by (Iím just going to go ahead and say it) James Posey while Tyler Hansbrough sits and does nothing on the bench or while Josh McRoberts gets sometimes 12 min. or less a game.

    So to answer the question in general, no a new coach will not have a significantly better record than what we have right no however what we are wanting is for other players to be the focus of the team and a different style of play.

    Here is another big secret. We are losing now we are losing with Jimís style of play and have lost with his style of play for over three years. We have lost 11 of our previous 16 games and each game during that spell we seem to revert more and more to his old faithful.

    A new coach may not change the overall record although I will say I donít think they will do any worse, but they damn well will change the direction of the game and the players who are playing.
    X________________________

    How are we ever going to know if Tyler or Josh can be a real starting 4
    If Hibbert can handle being the main Post threat in a typical offense
    If Collison or Price can truly be a starting PG, and if their bodies can hold up to it
    If Brandon can ever be consistent
    If Danny can be an all star in a typical offense


    We need to see a traditional offense and we need to see these players, along with the Rookies, in it in order to evaluate them and in order for them to learn from their mistakes.

    Posey, Dun, Foster and TJ aren't apart of this team for very much longer. They aren't going to learn from their mistakes, and they aren't going to help us win anything more than our younger players will. Why are they playing?

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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    ...So to answer the question in general, no a new coach will not have a significantly better record than what we have right no however what we are wanting is for other players to be the focus of the team and a different style of play.

    Here is another big secret. We are losing now we are losing with Jimís style of play and have lost with his style of play for over three years. We have lost 11 of our previous 16 games and each game during that spell we seem to revert more and more to his old faithful.

    A new coach may not change the overall record although I will say I donít think they will do any worse, but they damn well will change the direction of the game and the players who are playing.
    I also appreciate what Xindyfan is attempting to point out. I would probably take exception to stating that we have 2 quality starters because I do not include Roy in that classification, at least not yet.

    If I can expound upon what Peck has stated regarding a new coach not winning more games, but probably doing no worse. I think that almost any other coach would look at this team and also recognize that getting into the playoffs would be a challenge.

    Perhaps because of that recognition, I think that most other coaches would emphasize what I always want a coach to emphasize. "WIN THE GAMES THAT YOU ARE CAPABLE OF WINNING". It's that simple; don't tinker around with lineups that have gotten you a lead just because you prefer other other players down the stretch. Go with what got you there. "WIN THE GAMES THAT YOU ARE CAPABLE OF WINNING".

    Every team will miss some opportunities late in a game by making a defensive mistake here or there, or perhaps not executing their offense the best it can be done as the game winds down. That is a loss in games that I believe we would all agree simply got away from us. And, that happens more often with lesser experienced teams or with teams that do not have "quality" at most positions. To me, that is to be expected.

    But what I mean by "WIN THE GAMES THAT YOU ARE CAPABLE OF WINNING" is that you never, never whiz away a game because of a conscious decision to go in a different direction from what has made you so competitive in the game in the first place. These are not games that simply get away from you; these are games that are flat out blown. And quite frankly, I think we've had probably 3-4 games already that I would put into this category. And that is something I do not put on the players, despite the fact that we are often outmanned at most positions on the floor.

    If we could have won those games and executed a little better in others that we did let get away from us, I believe we could be a couple of games above .500 at this point.

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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    RE: Peck's post.......you guys have created a "Thanks" button...why not create a "Post Of the Year" button?

    Cuz if you did....I would nominate your post as a worthy candidate.
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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    I think the fact is we have quality team oriented guys who all have come from winning college programs playing for some great college coaches. I feel that right now they are playing the way they are being coached to play. I don't see how any honest appraisal of how good our players are can be made by a simple comparison to where they rank by position. What I found interesting is that the Spurs players arent at the top of the by position list,best record in the league and all.
    Last edited by HOOPFANATIC; 01-06-2011 at 01:21 AM.
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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    Quote Originally Posted by HOOPFANATIC View Post
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    I think the fact is we have quality team oriented guys who all have come from winning college programs playing for some great college coaches. I feel that right now they are playing the way they are being coached to play. I don't see how any honest appraisal of how good our players are can be made by a simple comparison to where they rank by position. What I found interesting is that the Spurs players arent at the top of the by position list,best record in the league and all.
    I appreciate the perspective you bring to the discussion. However, I think Duncan, Parker, Manu are all much higher on their respective positional lists than anyone we have at those positons. At least for the time being. Actually, I'd say Manu is top 5 among SGs. Arguably top 3 depending on who you include there. For instance do Wade and Pierce qualify as SGs?
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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    X________________________

    How are we ever going to know if Tyler or Josh can be a real starting 4
    If Hibbert can handle being the main Post threat in a typical offense
    If Collison or Price can truly be a starting PG, and if their bodies can hold up to it
    If Brandon can ever be consistent
    If Danny can be an all star in a typical offense


    We need to see a traditional offense and we need to see these players, along with the Rookies, in it in order to evaluate them and in order for them to learn from their mistakes.

    Posey, Dun, Foster and TJ aren't apart of this team for very much longer. They aren't going to learn from their mistakes, and they aren't going to help us win anything more than our younger players will. Why are they playing?
    This^^^^^

    Because they (the younger players) are either the problem or the solution. We need to determine which. In order to do that, we need somebody who will make a roatation and stick to it. Worry less about matchups and worry more about seeing what's there to work with. Work more on emphasizing their strengths and mitigating their weaknesses (if they are to be primary rotation players) and worry less on sitting them down for extended periods of time. If, after all that, we still have a team that has not got enough talent or potential to at least reach the middle level of the Eastern Conference, then we need to look hard at the front office...Right now I think he's trying to ride the veterans to the best possible record (I can't blame him for that. It's his job to win games, bottom line) and the rest of it be damned.
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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    Quote Originally Posted by IndySDExport View Post
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    .
    6. Maybe allow the team to run a pick or roll or 2
    I think that is a common misconception. But saying I think is not good enough.

    I will count the number of pick and rolls the pacers run against the spurs. Anyone want to set the over/under. I think it is a lot more than most realize. Probably should count for 3 or 4 games just so we get a good number. I will count every pick and roll they run whether it is on a delayed fastbreak situation or if they run 2 or 3 on one play.

    Onto the question in this thread. How good are the Pacers players. Right now there are pretty awful - blame the coach if you want, but the evidence is they are bad right now.

    But overall they are better than last season. I am just going to compare last season when the talent level was at an alltime low level (probably a 20 plus year low level for this franchise)

    Essentially the Pacers had added Dunleavy, Collison, an improved Roy, improved Josh, and maybe Jeff and Tyler are more physically able to play. Early on Ford was playing better than last season. The team is more talented than last year. Probably at best this is a .500 team, maybe 42 wins at most.

    Maybe the bigger problem is how the talent is distributed across the roster.

    Point guard is decent, Ford is a good backup, Collison is a legitimate starting NBA point guard.

    Shooting guard and small forward is at a fringe playoff level.

    But the problem is at power forward and center. I love Foster but he is old and cannot physically play many minutes. Josh just isn't very good - on 75% of the NBA teams he is a 10th man at best. Roy is a decent starter, but if he is your best big guy you are in big big big trouble. Solo wouldn't be on most NBA rosters. Tyler, is young and hopefully will develop into something.

    I said last season the pacers 4's and 5's were the worst collection of defenders by far of any NBA team. The improvement of Roy and trading Troy has helped the defense , but the offense is a problem for the bigs. The pacers bigs just aren't even fringe playoff caliber
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-06-2011 at 08:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Just How Good are the Pacer Players??

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    I appreciate the perspective you bring to the discussion. However, I think Duncan, Parker, Manu are all much higher on their respective positional lists than anyone we have at those positons. At least for the time being. Actually, I'd say Manu is top 5 among SGs. Arguably top 3 depending on who you include there. For instance do Wade and Pierce qualify as SGs?
    I agree, that was my point, I was referencing the original posters positional list. I don't like to judge players by whose better at their positions. I'm a firm believer that Basketball is a team sport.
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