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Thread: why would the hawks deal josh smith

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    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
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    Default why would the hawks deal josh smith

    im posting this cause im tired of reading worthless trade rumors for garbage players. landry is okay but folks on here think the nba is a video game and we should make deals every week.

    i believe in being patient and waiting for the right player/deal to come along. which hopefully Bird continues to do.

    how do we not know a deal is already in place, but the teams will not finalize until the all-star break, for example the hawks may deal smith, but want the pacers record to be as bad as possible b/c a first could be involved. just saying.

    anyways, since so many are gung ho for doing a deal, the only PF that realistcally might become available and i would be actually thrilled to see us acquire is smith. these other garbage players are not going to make any bit of difference for us.

    so my question is, why would the hawks consider dealing smith. my guess is smith and horford play the same position, and also financial reasons, but im not quite fully understanding a move for financial reasons since it appears the hawks are in good shape after bibby's contract expires.

    so i guess this post is asking.. IS THERE ANYWAY ON GODS GREEN EARTH WE CAN ACQUIRE JOSH SMITH?

    am hoping some of you know more about this than i do, regarding financial reasons why the hawks would do this and so on...

    blatche or landry are just aerage players to me,, if were gonna discuss players who can make a difference and might be available, smith is the man i wanna see wearing blue and gold.. but is it even possible.

    ie. i think iggy is no longer available as was originally reported a couple months ago. additionally, im cool with waiting on PG24 anyways to gain experience, but we need a PF and if Smith seems like the one most likely available and would be a game changer.

    Thanks.

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    IS THERE ANYWAY ON GODS GREEN EARTH WE CAN ACQUIRE JOSH SMITH?
    No

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    He's not an option.
    We need better than solid. No JJ Redicks, Andray Blatche, Mike Dunleavy type guys to have big roles on our team.

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    now that they have Horford locked up on a nice deal I dont see them trading Jsmith. I just dont think they will resign Jamal Crawford and maybe trade him to the MAVS at the all-star break.

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    Only if we trade away Foster and TJ will the Hawks do that

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    that takes care of my question. I still feel smith/horford at the PF creates a jam at the position.

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    that takes care of my question. I still feel smith/horford at the PF creates a jam at the position.
    they are so verstile. They both can play 2 postions. The only reason they were gonna trade him was so they could give Horford a max deal. They didnt need to he signed 5 yr 60mil now they can afford both.

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    they are so verstile. They both can play 2 postions. The only reason they were gonna trade him was so they could give Horford a max deal. They didnt need to he signed 5 yr 60mil now they can afford both.
    If the CBA doesn't change much, they'll have to seriously go into the luxury tax to keep them both, and field a decent roster. They have 63 million dollars tied up in 8 players next year. That's 7 more players still remaining to be signed. Even the year after that they have 58 million tied up in 7 players.

    Pretty hard to go that far into luxury tax range for a team that has attendance to rival our own, and that's sad because they're much better.

    Arena: Philips Arena ▪ Attendance: 240,968 (22nd of 30)
    Arena: Conseco Fieldhouse ▪ Attendance: 237,128 (25th of 30)

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    There are multiple variables, IMO.

    Variables concerning the Pacers:

    In a trade senario, [1] the Pacers would owe the Hawks' forward a $6 million dollar "trade kicker" in addition to a contract exceeding $50 million dollars. [2] The Pacers would have to give the Hawks talent in return. After all, the Hawks believe they can compete for a championship. They will not trade Smith in order to dump his salary. Expiring contracts are the only value of Ford and Dunleavy. Who would the Pacers trade for Smith? [3] CBA?

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    Quote Originally Posted by huber14 View Post
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    Only if we trade away Foster and TJ will the Hawks do that
    Fixed

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    Did I mention $6 million dollar trade kicker?

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    $$$$$$$

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    If the CBA doesn't change much, they'll have to seriously go into the luxury tax to keep them both, and field a decent roster. They have 63 million dollars tied up in 8 players next year. That's 7 more players still remaining to be signed. Even the year after that they have 58 million tied up in 7 players.

    Pretty hard to go that far into luxury tax range for a team that has attendance to rival our own, and that's sad because they're much better.

    Arena: Philips Arena ▪ Attendance: 240,968 (22nd of 30)
    Arena: Conseco Fieldhouse ▪ Attendance: 237,128 (25th of 30)
    Including Horford's new salary for 2011/2012, according to Hoopsworld, the Hawks have 64.192M tied up in salary for 8 players. Among the players that are free agents is Jamal Crawford, currently making 10.8M in the last year of his contract, and 6 other players (none of whom currently makes over 2.5M).

    Let's assume for a moment that those 6 players are re-signed at the same salaries or that their replacements make no more than the 6 did this season. That would take another 6.78M total, bringing the total commited salary up to nearly 71M... and they haven't re-signed Jamal Crawford yet. If they re-sign Crawford at his present salary, then they are up to 81.8M.

    It's pretty obvious that something has to give for the Hawks. Both Crawford and Smith have played very important roles for their team. But they will have Johnson and Horford making 18M and 12M next season, with Smith in line to make 12.2M. If they re-signed Crawford, then they would have about 43M tied up in 4 players.

    The Hawks can get a lot more in return for Smith than they can for Crawford. I suspect they would be looking for less salary in return, comprised of young, partially proven players on rookie contracts and a combination of draft choices.

    The Pacers would probably like to have Crawford too, but with the players we have, there isn't enough difference in Crawford's talent level and the potential of our players to warrant shelling out 10M for Crawford. Besides, Rush also plays much better defense than Crawford.

    So, Smith would be our choice and I'd bet the Pacers are just waiting to see which player the Hawks might be willing to give up - Smith or Crawford. If it is Smith, the Pacers would probably try to get involved.

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    It would cost $6 million plus his contract. I don't think it will happen. Simon won't be interested.

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    I think Smith becomes available only if Atlanta acquires an athletic center (better than Zaza). One day-dream: the Nuggets decide to blow their team up after trading Melo, and agree to a three-team trade where they get young talent and/or a pick, Atlanta gets Nene, and we get Smith.

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    They would be dumb to resign Crawford. SGs are a dime a dozen in this league and they draft a decent shooting guard.

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    Quote Originally Posted by ryheathco View Post
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    It would cost $6 million plus his contract. I don't think it will happen. Simon won't be interested.
    His contract is 25.6M over 2 years. If Smith is willing, the 6M can be negotiated. And if it is the difference between paying luxury tax and not paying luxure tax, Atlanta may also be willing to kick some cash into the deal. You suddenly cut that 6M down to maybe 2M and I don't think the Pacers would blink to get a player of Smith's abilities.

    The only responsibility the Pacers would have would be to cut Smith a check for the full amount of the negotiated trade kicker within 30 days. There is nothing that stipulates where the funds must come from.

    Get it down to 2M, and that is like paying Smith 27.6M over the next 2 years.

    These amounts could be affected by the new CBA if player salaries are reduced across the board. But, no matter how the salaries are affected, the salary cap will probably also be affected in a similar manner, so the Hawks will continue to be well above the luxury tax limit as they fill out their roster.

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    i have another question then, what would the hawks realistically want in return for Smith. lets be realists about it, and could the pacers offer them the kind of deal needed.

    it sounds as though they want a center, obviously Hibbs is not apart of any deal for Smith, but perhaps a third team could get involved.

    i guess i dont think bringing in landry, randolph, or blatche is really even worth discussing. if were gonna get a PF, Smith is the one we need that could be available.

    im guessing it could take 2 first round picks, and a young player such as Paul George to get a deal done.

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    i have another question then, what would the hawks realistically want in return for Smith. lets be realists about it, and could the pacers offer them the kind of deal needed.

    it sounds as though they want a center, obviously Hibbs is not apart of any deal for Smith, but perhaps a third team could get involved.

    i guess i dont think bringing in landry, randolph, or blatche is really even worth discussing. if were gonna get a PF, Smith is the one we need that could be available.

    im guessing it could take 2 first round picks, and a young player such as Paul George to get a deal done.
    Roy Hibbert and TJ

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    ...i guess i dont think bringing in landry, randolph, or blatche is really even worth discussing. if were gonna get a PF, Smith is the one we need that could be available.

    im guessing it could take 2 first round picks, and a young player such as Paul George to get a deal done.
    From a money standpoint, the Pacers will be able to afford Smith. However, from a trading standpoint, I agree with you... I'm not certain that we would be willing to give up everthing they want. They will want our best young players that are still on their rookie contracts I would think. So probably George and Rush? They would probably want at least 1 first round pick; I think the Pacers would balk at 2 first round picks.

    I totally agree with you assessment of Randolph. Way too costly on a seasonal basis even with a new contract. Plus off-court issues.

    I disagree about Landry, but not as much as you might think. I think that Landry is a very productive player who is a vast improvement over any of our present true PFs. He could help us get to the playoffs this season and would be an exceptional player in a second unit next season. Obviously the limiting factor is what it might cost to re-sign him. He's making $3M now but is now comes off the bench, which might help lower his contract expectations. If not, he is still a very desirable asset that can be used to help us land a free agent this summer.

    You like Smith. I give West the nod simply because we wouldn't have to part with much, if anything at all, to get him. West is not the defensive presence that Smith is away from the lane, but is just as good in the paint. He does not have Smith's offensive range, but is a very good mid-range and in player... let's just say he would never be used as a stretch 4.

    My goal would be to get Landry AND West. Not just one, but both. We not only need a starter at PF, we also need quality depth at PF... just as much as we do at center. I believe that West is one of very available PFs that could also give us minutes at center in relief of Hibbert.

    With respect to Smith... I think it is realistic that they could simply choose to let Crawford expire rather than re-sign him. Doing so would cause their depth to take a major hit. It seems that if they chose to re-sign Crawford and get good young players for Smith, they would at least salvage something.
    Last edited by beast23; 01-04-2011 at 12:36 AM.

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    If we can get Smith without gutting our core you have to do it. I just dont see it happening though, unless Atlanta is forced to do a salary dump if a new CBA happens.

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    From a money standpoint, the Pacers will be able to afford Smith. However, from a trading standpoint, I agree with you... I'm not certain that we would be willing to give up everthing they want. They will want our best young players that are still on their rookie contracts I would think. So probably George and Rush? They would probably want at least 1 first round pick; I think the Pacers would balk at 2 first round picks.

    I totally agree with you assessment of Randolph. Way too costly on a seasonal basis even with a new contract. Plus off-court issues.

    I disagree about Landry, but not as much as you might think. I think that Landry is a very productive player who is a vast improvement over any of our present true PFs. He could help us get to the playoffs this season and would be an exceptional player in a second unit next season. Obviously the limiting factor is what it might cost to re-sign him. He's making $3M now but is now comes off the bench, which might help lower his contract expectations. If not, he is still a very desirable asset that can be used to help us land a free agent this summer.

    You like Smith. I give West the nod simply because we wouldn't have to part with much, if anything at all, to get him. West is not the defensive presence that Smith is away from the lane, but is just as good in the paint. He does not have Smith's offensive range, but is a very good mid-range and in player... let's just say he would never be used as a stretch 4.

    My goal would be to get Landry AND West. Not just one, but both. We not only need a starter at PF, we also need quality depth at PF... just as much as we do at center. I believe that West is one of very available PFs that could also give us minutes at center in relief of Hibbert.

    With respect to Smith... I think it is realistic that they could simply choose to let Crawford expire rather than re-sign him. Doing so would cause their depth to take a major hit. It seems that if they chose to re-sign Crawford and get good young players for Smith, they would at least salvage something.
    im going to agree with most of this. i overlooked west and he would be a nice fit. we need a vet in here, and he is around 30 or so im guessing. the salary it would take to land him is the question for me.

    what do you guys think.. 7-9 million range. i dont think we need landry as well, with hansbrough and mcbob here. i know its nucking futs buts let go after oden.

    i like west, and like you said, wouldnt gut our roster. i think west will be the big FA sign for us over the offseason. then we can focus on the draft, would love to see us make a move to get into the top ten somehow and acquire another stud PF with the potential of PG24.

    if smith becomes available, its worth looking into, but your right in that the asking price may be too high.

    west can be the stop-gap solution for 3-4 seasons at a reasonable contract price. we can continue to build through the draft and FA from there. would really like to see one more stud draft pick before we become a top 4 team in the east.. alas the bender pick.

    im in agreement completely, west should be the target. my issue with landry is he is undersized, and we already have a PF in hansbro who has the same issue.

    anyone disagree with the west idea.?

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    Default Re: why would the hawks deal josh smith

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    anyone disagree with the west idea.?
    I love David West, as a player. I think he would be a great fit here. He's also one of the more underpaid players in the league right now.

    However, while it seems likely to me, it isn't even a given that he will be a free agent after this season. He has a $7.5 million option for next year. He may decide that it will be a better choice to exercise that option and ride out his current deal, especially with the impending lockout, and then see what he can get as a free agent in the 2012 off-season.

    There is also the Chris Paul issue. If I'm David West, I try to maximize my time playing alongside CP3, at all costs. Talk about a value booster. Maybe CP3 decides to bolt New Orleans in the 2012 off-season. Who can blame him if he does? But I think West would be better off staying in New Orleans for one more season. Once Paul makes his decision, and either takes off for New York, LA, or insert other glitzy destination here, or decides to ride the storm out (too soon?) in New Orleans, then West can go about his business of cashing in.

    I have no idea what he will do. Just wanted to point out that, it is far from a certainty that David West will even be on the market, after this season. He might have the toughest player option decision in history. There are so many unknown variables that he will have to consider.

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