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Thread: So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

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    Default So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't each of their contracts be expired on July 1st?

    If so, what happens during the summer and during the lockout?

    Let's break this down two ways:

    1) Let's assume Herb wants both of them back, or at least he wants Larry and then Larry wants Jim.

    Okay, in that scenario, would we see one or both of them signing an extension sometime in April or May, or would we see them get an extension in July?

    I would almost have to assume April/May because is it even legal to sign a GM or coach with no CBA/during a lockout? Surely they wouldn't work without a contract for X months?

    2) Let's assume either Herb doesn't want Larry back, or Larry just doesn't want to stay.

    When would we expect to hear about this definitively? April/May, or July 1st+?

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    Member Speed's Avatar
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    Default Re: So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

    I'd guess after the season, but before the draft analysis. So sometime in May. You have to have someone in place for the draft. I don't think they'll change until after the season.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

    I think coaches contracts expire right after the team is done for the season. April or May

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    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

    Why does this even matter when the issue at hand isn't for another 4 months? I mean geez this board is straight obsessed with firing JOB and now Bird.

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    Default Re: So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Why does this even matter when the issue at hand isn't for another 4 months? I mean geez this board is straight obsessed with firing JOB and now Bird.
    I would defer to your knowledge about obsessing, for sure. Oh, the irony.

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    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

    man you straight triflin, good for nothing.

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    Default Re: So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

    It matters because when we know, it's an important moment in what to expect next, and I realized that I wasn't exactly sure when I would hear of a decision.

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    Default Re: So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

    i dont think bird is leaving

    he'll come to his senses and jim will be fired

    bird enjoys his position and the fact that its here in indy
    In 49 states it's just basketball, but this is Indiana!

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    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

    Hicks, you raise a few interesting points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I would almost have to assume April/May because is it even legal to sign a GM or coach with no CBA/during a lockout? Surely they wouldn't work without a contract for X months?
    The CBA is basically a contract between the league and the Player's Association. It doesn't affect the GM or coach contracts. My understanding is that even if there is a lockout, GMs and coaches who are still under contract would continue to get paid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    If so, what happens during the summer and during the lockout?
    The lockout makes things very interesting. After the draft, there won't be any basketball activities until a new CBA is negotiated. If you're Herb Simon, do you really want to hire a new GM and coach to twiddle their thumbs during the dead months?

    I think the current management team (Bird and Morway) will be asked to stay on at least until the draft. If the Pacers plan on retaining them, I think new contracts would in place long before the end of the season though.

    Now I'm not rabid proponent of Obie's firing, but I can't imagine anyone on the Pacers (including Bird) giving him a new contract. He's a caretaker coach whose contract will have run out at season's end. At some point after the season they'll simply announce that his contract won't be renewed.

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    Default Re: So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

    He was signed in May 2007 to a three-year, with a 4th as an option, which we took up...so May 2011 should be the extent of it?? An announcement right after our season ends would seem right.
    [~]) ... Cheers! Go Pacers!

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    Default Re: So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

    IMO the impending lockout only impacts lame duck coaches. As we're seeing in the NFL with Houston and San Diego, and possibly others like Miami, there's little point in paying the salary of two coaches when there may be no games to coach.

    Now granted, while it may be tempting to go coachless in such a scenario, I don't think it's feasible from a PR standpoint. You're already going to take a popularity hit because of the lockout, you want your fans to feel there's some stability in the interim, even something to look forward to. And remember with the last lockout, there was very little time to sign free agents, you don't want to add even more instability to the mix.

    Lastly, it should be remembered that PS&E is not exactly an austere organization. Really no point when you can always get more money from the CIB.
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

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    Default Re: So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    The lockout makes things very interesting. After the draft, there won't be any basketball activities until a new CBA is negotiated. If you're Herb Simon, do you really want to hire a new GM and coach to twiddle their thumbs during the dead months?

    If the Pacers plan on retaining them, I think new contracts would in place long before the end of the season though.

    I can't imagine anyone on the Pacers (including Bird) giving him a new contract.


    A) You truly think GM's and coaches will be doing nothing but twiddling their thumbs during the dead months? You make it sound like they can go take extended vactions until the NBA notifys them a new CBA is in effect. I envision them trying to figure out trades and talking to each as such daily. You can't wait until the 1st day of a new CBA to continue business as normal. They have no idea when the season will start, so they have to be prepared. Not to mention be prepared as to what FA they are interested in going after.


    B) I agree.


    C) How about Herb Simon? I can if he wants to keep them in place one a 1 year contract during the lockout while trying to find new ownership for the Pacers. Then new ownership doesn't have to take on a new FO and coach Simon just hired, but can bring their own in immediately.

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    Default Re: So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

    I doubt we see any contracts until the lockout is resolved. Let's hope that ownership has come to their senses at this point?

    Attract an educated, pedigreed franchise builder with complete autonomy and usable cap space. Let the new guy pick his coach.

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    Default Re: So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I think coaches contracts expire right after the team is done for the season.
    In that case, Jim's contract should already be expired, because this team is already pretty much done for the season.

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    Default Re: So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

    If there were no planned lock-out, I think it would increase the likelihood that Jim would be fired before the end of the season. As it stands, I think the existence of a lock-out helps him keep his job through the end of the season.

    I think a ton of this depends on how the players feel about playing for him because we are not going to hire a new coach. If they will be happier, I think we might see Vogel. Otherwise, I think Jim can relax and keep playing Posey and Solo.

    Edit: ...on the other hand. It might be a good time to pick up a coach...and get them in here to put the footprint down. Yes, there is a risk they will need to pay the guy during a slow period, but there are benefits to giving a new coach this type of backing...and time to put together things....and to be part of picking in the next draft.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 01-03-2011 at 11:40 PM.

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    Default Re: So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

    I don't even ****ing care anymore. Honestly, this board has made me more apathetic towards the Pacers than the actual team has. Flame away.

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    Default Re: So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I don't even ****ing care anymore. Honestly, this board has made me more apathetic towards the Pacers than the actual team has. Flame away.
    I feel the same way!!

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    Default Re: So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

    Remember that article suggesting O'Brien deserved an extension and that he could be a fit for the Celtics or some other playoff team a year from now? To quote Nelly, "It was just a dream...those days are gone".

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    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    A) You truly think GM's and coaches will be doing nothing but twiddling their thumbs during the dead months? You make it sound like they can go take extended vactions until the NBA notifys them a new CBA is in effect. I envision them trying to figure out trades and talking to each as such daily. You can't wait until the 1st day of a new CBA to continue business as normal. They have no idea when the season will start, so they have to be prepared. Not to mention be prepared as to what FA they are interested in going after.
    Talking trades and figuring out how to improve the team is nice and all but ultimately pointless without knowing the implications of a new CBA. I suppose the main activity during this period would be marketing related, i.e. figuring out how to win back lost fans, as Kegboy suggests. Perhaps some scouting to check out the players who decide to play elsewhere during the lockout (though the legality of players under contract playing for other teams is still a question). I do agree with you that waiting until the first day of a new CBA isn't the smartest thing to do, but I'd certainly expect the Pacers to take their time finding a new executive team if that's what they plan to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    C) How about Herb Simon? I can if he wants to keep them in place one a 1 year contract during the lockout while trying to find new ownership for the Pacers. Then new ownership doesn't have to take on a new FO and coach Simon just hired, but can bring their own in immediately.
    That's a scenario that hasn't occurred to me. I think the plan all along is to start with a fairly clean slate after 2011 in terms of management, coaching, and players. If there's a plan to sell the team, this would in fact be the perfect time for a new owner to come in. It seems silly to wait out another lame duck year when it makes much more sense to do it now.

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    Default Re: So when should we know (either way) if Larry and/or Jim are coming back?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    That's a scenario that hasn't occurred to me. I think the plan all along is to start with a fairly clean slate after 2011 in terms of management, coaching, and players. If there's a plan to sell the team, this would in fact be the perfect time for a new owner to come in. It seems silly to wait out another lame duck year when it makes much more sense to do it now.

    Not to mention Simon got the CIB issue this summer settled for a new ownership change as well. Looks like getting ones ducks all put in a row for new ownership. JMOAA

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