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Thread: Just a friendly reminder...

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    I got on board as a kid when they were winning. My expectations, I think, are higher than those of you who survived the 80's with this team because of that.

    But regardless, I think by sticking around after the Finals and continuing to do so today proves that I'm willing to stick with the team when they're not exactly contending.

    With that said, I need something to hold onto while I'm dealing with the losing, and I feel like I'm not getting much.

    During the Isiah years, it was fun and rewarding watching our new, younger guys step up and start to contribute after sitting on the end of the bench in 2000, or in JO's case coming in from being on Portland's bench. Then it was adding Ron and Brad to that. It was fun to see these guys start to come into their own.

    But this time, it's just not like that. We get to watch some youth, but not enough, usually inconsistently, and combined with the coaching that I just don't care for, it's just a pain in the *** to stay interested, let alone excited.

    With that said, this won't make me walk away a la "Spider-Man, no more!" but if Jim comes back again I'll probably have to go into the fan equivalent of cryo-freeze until he and Bird are out. When this era is over, I'll thaw out, whether they're winning or not, and give the next administration a chance.

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  3. #27
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    Dude....you're letting a basketball team affect your relationships?? Do you not see what is wrong with this picture?
    I do. JOB is ruining Since's life. I left when it became painfully apparent that Larry was trying to ruin mine. (It's up to the reader if this should have been written in green.)

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  5. #28
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    They're on two completely different levels, but they are not two completely different things.

    What Jim does on the basketball court, I definately consider abuse. No, not on the level of phsyical domestic violence, but emtional abuse none-the-less. I literally get pissed off watching him coach. Everyone knows the feeling I'm talking about, where you can feel your heart beat faster and you start to scowl.

    The freaking Pacers shouldn't be able to get that type of reaction out of someone that has no vested interest in the team other than pure emotion. I don't hang around people who **** me off, and I'm certainly not going to put people I do like through my ****ty moods over a freaking basketball game.

    If you want to think that I'm not a true fan because of it, then that's your choice. But I don't need to sit through it and keep my mouth shut just to make you think otherwise.

    EDIT: And I say it's emotional abuse because the feeling I get when I watch him coach is the same feeling I get when someone starts running their mouth, either with intimidation or belittling.

    I understand I might have a little too much emotion involved, but I'm not going to ruin other relationships I have because I have too strong of feelings for the Pacers and Jim.

    Sorry, but I refuse.
    Abuse? Abuse of who?
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-03-2011 at 02:46 PM.

  6. #29
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    Dude....you're letting a basketball team affect your relationships?? Do you not see what is wrong with this picture?
    Dude....yes. Which is why I don't watch most of the game. I don't want it too, so I stop watching.

    That's my whole point. It is stupid. So I'm not going to continue letting it.

  7. #30

    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    Well said, Duke.

    I admit I've gotten down on this team alot recently, but I'm still watching games and I'm still hopeful they can turn things around in short order. I know alot of blame is always placed on the coach - some of it well deserved - but players still have to execute plays, they still have to play smart basketball and not give up on plays, they still have to defend at a high level and they still have to put the ball in the basket.

    Now, maybe we don't like coach O'Brien's rotation patterns, maybe they make much sense to many of us, but at the end of the day, a coach has to work with what he's got, and a player has to execute plays the way the coach draws them up. Either we don't have the right players out there who are smart enough to execute or be consistent or we have the wrong coach. Mgmt will have to decide which is more true. Personally, I'm leaning more towards the coach being the problem, but I'd wrong to think this was all coach O'Brien's fault.

    Our core group of PFs aren't strong enough nor experienced enough to contend with most PFs out there. So, that's certainly an area that needs to improve. Hibbert can't be the only scoring/defending Center we have. To that, I don't see Solo as a solid backup Center; a decent PF maybe...

    Our Guards/SF have got to start putting the ball in the basket! There's no two-ways about it. Hopefully, they'll take the next 4-5 days off, review film, go through tons of shooting and layup drills and make the adjustments to their shot. In the meantime, I hope coach O'Brien and his coaching staff are looking at ways to tweak the rotations.

    I'd start with sticking with the same starters barring injuries. Next, I'd stop the Stretch-Fwd experiment; that would mean stop trying to force Jmac into being a long-ball shooter, as well as, using Posey only for late-game, defensive purposes. From there, go with a better mix of experience and youth. You went for more athletic players for a reason. It's beyond time to start putting some of that athleticism to use. If speed and quickness is what JOB wants:

    C-Hibbert/Solo
    PF-Jmac/Hans
    SF-Granger/Dunleavy
    SG-BRush/George
    PG-Collison/TJ/AJ

    Benchwarmers: Stephenson, Dahntey, Foster, Posey

    If he wants a good mix of skill at every position w/speed and quickness:

    C-Hibbert/Foster/Solo
    PF-Foster/Jmac/Hans
    SF-Granger/Dunleavy
    SG-BRush/George
    PG-TJ/Collison/AJ

    Benchwarmers: Stephenson, Dahntey, Posey

    (Notice the only things that change are the mix of our front-court and our starting PG due to his experience.)

    Both lineups have Posey on the bench. Why? Because IMO he's a situational player and likely won't be on the roster next year. So, why take away playing time from George or Hans just because he can make a 3-pt shot or take a charge? Foster and Dunleavy take charges just as well, and Dunleavy's 3PA avg is no worse than Posey's at this point. I'd even say his defense is better at this point.

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  9. #31
    A happy Roy is a good Roy DaveP63's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    I will support them absolutely and without question. That does not mean, necessarily, that I will watch them if he's still here.
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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  11. #32
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    I think someone has anger issues, but I know someone who does the same thing when he's getting beat at Halo online. Gets mad like it's everyone around him that caused it. That's like me getting into a debate with someone on here, and yelling at my g/f because I'm mad about it. Although I might have done it when I was a kid, I watched my mom die over a few month period, and I was a pretty pissed off SOB for a while.

    If you have your priorities in order, and lack anger issues, I don't believe this happens. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd sure like to have a free chat with a psychologist about it. It's interesting to me. Even if I'm mad as hell about something, if it wasn't my g/f that caused it, she won't get the repercussions from it either.

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  13. #33
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    I don't take it out on other people, and I don't intend to. Which is why I turn off the game before it ever reaches that point.

    EDIT: And for the recod, I don't get off work til atleast 9pm, so I DVR the games and usually watch them by myself. Usually about 1am.
    Last edited by Since86; 01-03-2011 at 05:29 PM.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I don't take it out on other people, and I don't intend to. Which is why I turn off the game before it ever reaches that point.
    Taking out on people, affecting people around you...pretty much the same thing.

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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    I didn't know this was going to turn into a Dr. Phil episode. Don't quit your day jobs.

    I know it's the internet and all, but seriously, I don't have a problem. I'm a very laid back person, which is why I turn off the TV. I don't need to be mad, so I turn it off. Problem solved.

    And even if I did have one, you're using the freaking internet and my half-assed descriptions as the basis of diagnosis, with no training in the field. Lighten up.

    And I pinky promise you, that I say that in the most relaxed tone of voice that anyone can possibly muster.
    Last edited by Since86; 01-03-2011 at 05:35 PM.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    If you turn off the TV, how come it affects the people around you?
    Because my roommate's bedroom wall is directly against the back of the couch. The head of his bed is literally 5ft away from where I sit and make my off-color remarks. Usually some cuss words that are considered loud at 2am, when he's been in bed for quite a while.

    When it wakes him up I apologize for being loud.

    Let's not act like they ask if I need another drink and I verbally belittle them with some mean comment laced with obsenities.

    And also, I will be attending the game Wed. the 12th with the girl I'm dating and some friends. I'll post my seat location when I find out where they are, so if Heywoode or anyone else that brings their cameras to the game wants to either photograph or record my behavior for evidence.

    EDIT: To be fair, I should also admit that when DC dunked on Williams from Philly, I woke everyone up in the house from yelling "OH ****." So maybe in your diagnosis summary you can conclude I'm really bipolar with extreme mood swings going from extreme happiness to extreme anger.

    Gotta make sure we get all the "facts" in there.
    Last edited by Since86; 01-03-2011 at 05:55 PM.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    A couple of years ago, I was travelling a lot with out of state contracts. The timing of that work was perfect because I had just had it with the Tinsleys, Jacksons and O'Neals. We had too many turds on the team and it was driving me nuts.

    So I took 12-16 months off. I needed the makeup of the team to change before I could bring my mind back into being a fan.

    I had Jose Slaughter PM me about coming back and posting more. My response was that I wasn't in the right frame of mind... that my posts had become much more argumentive and mean-spirited and that I simply did not want to be "that guy". I was not proud of the way that I began to interact with others here on the forum... we can all re-invent ourselves through our posts to be anyone we care to be here on the forum... but I was not liking the poster that I was becoming.

    And... please don't talk to me about being a "true fan", because I guarantee you that I've attended as many games and held season tickets for as many years as probably anyone on here.... dating all the way back to age 15 in 1967. Looking back on all those years, it is downright embarrassing how much money I've spent on tickets and sports apparel... enough to buy a decent house or pay for a couple of additonal college educations... I will tell you only that.

    I think those that follow teams for many, many years do get emotionally involved in their teams. I certainly could not fault anyone there.

    And, at times, just to achieve balance in one's life it can become necessary to temporarily tune it out. That gives you the time and opportunity to re-prioritize.

    So, for anyone who reaches that point. Good luck... and hope to see you back... eventually.

  18. #38
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    Yeah, I suspect I have more of a Pacers Problem than Since86, because when they p**s me off and screw up my mood, I not only come back for more I defend them against criticism.

    Do we have a smiley for "co-dependent"?
    BillS

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  19. #39
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    Duke, I've had season tickets longer than you have been alive. Don't tell me how I should be a fan. I've been through many ups and downs with this team.

    I will b*tch, protest, yell and if comes to it; with regret turn my back on the team I love and never look back. It's really gotten to that point. TPTP are the ones that are forcing these choices.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    Great posts by all. I know it can get frustrating with teams. I decided at least a decade ago that I was not going to let any sports team or game affect my mood. I used to get down for days after a tough playoff loss or something. Then I thought....I'm not out there playing and screwing up so why am I letting somebody else control my well being.... Nothing I can do about the outcome so I just take it as it comes and don't get too high or too low. Sure I want the Colts to win the Super Bowl and the Pacers to win the Title. But I'm not going to get devastated if they don't.

  21. #41

    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    Hey, the only reason that I am here is for and the only reason I am a STH is to see Paul George, Danny Granger, Brandon Rush, Roy Hibbert, Darren Collison, AJ Price, Josh McRoberts, Tyler Hansbrough, and to a much lesser extent Jeff Foster and Lance Stephenson.

    Our expiring contracts, JOB, and James Posey can go to hell for all I care; I can't stand any of them besides Mike Dunleavy and Jeff Foster (even though Jeff shouldn't be playing anymore). The fact that these guys that very, very few even consider a part of the nucleus get a majority of PT really ticks me off and grind my gears. We don't go to the games to see rotting players play for their next contract, we go to the games to see the team win and see our future guys develop chemistry and improve before our very eyes.

    The main issue isn't even that the young players aren't developing, the main issue is that the young players are our best option to win, we aren't playing our best players appropriate minutes, and philosophies of a brain dead coach are getting in the way of a franchise that is ready to turn the corner. We aren't playing winning fundamental basketball and old players that are over the hill like James Posey, Mike Dunleavy, and Jeff Foster are closing out games which is a disgrace to this franchise and its fanbase.

    However, unless if Jim is extended which is probably a 2% chance, I will always be a fan of the Pacers and I will continue to buy season tickets annually. I understand the privilege of having a pro team here and I can't imagine not having a pro team here. I know that James Posey was the deal-breaker in the Collison trade, I know that Murph and Dun were the hands that were dealt to Larry, and I really do understand the reasoning to keep JOB for another couple of months. Through this rough patch I just have to close my eyes when Posey and TJ are in, avoid most JOB talk, and not watch the games in the past 6 minutes if it is a close one.

    So yes, Duke, I won't let Jim ruin my relationship with the Indiana Pacers that has been going strong ever since I moved here.
    We need better than solid. No JJ Redicks, Andray Blatche, Mike Dunleavy type guys to have big roles on our team.

  22. #42
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Do we have a smiley for "co-dependent"?
    Here ya go:

    .

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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  23. #43
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Because my roommate's bedroom wall is directly against the back of the couch. The head of his bed is literally 5ft away from where I sit and make my off-color remarks. Usually some cuss words that are considered loud at 2am, when he's been in bed for quite a while.

    When it wakes him up I apologize for being loud.

    Let's not act like they ask if I need another drink and I verbally belittle them with some mean comment laced with obsenities.

    And also, I will be attending the game Wed. the 12th with the girl I'm dating and some friends. I'll post my seat location when I find out where they are, so if Heywoode or anyone else that brings their cameras to the game wants to either photograph or record my behavior for evidence.

    EDIT: To be fair, I should also admit that when DC dunked on Williams from Philly, I woke everyone up in the house from yelling "OH ****." So maybe in your diagnosis summary you can conclude I'm really bipolar with extreme mood swings going from extreme happiness to extreme anger.

    Gotta make sure we get all the "facts" in there.
    What does that have to do with your job?

  24. #44
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
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    Duke, I've had season tickets longer than you have been alive. Don't tell me how I should be a fan. I've been through many ups and downs with this team.

    I will b*tch, protest, yell and if comes to it; with regret turn my back on the team I love and never look back. It's really gotten to that point. TPTP are the ones that are forcing these choices.
    If you've been through it all and you're willing to turn your back on them now we've got a problem.

    Sorry that my 5 years of being an STH isn't good enough to have a valued opinion.

    I will say this:

    Yes, the Pacers have had a major impact on my life in more ways than one. Most importantly the people that I've met in person from this board, Area 55, and in other Pacers-related events. I became good buddies with the couple that sat next to us last season. We went to Indy 500 qualifications together, etc.

    Gnome and I have went to Fever games, hockey games and our families have attended shows and had dinner together numerous times.

    We spent New Year's Eve with a few other couples from Area 55.

    The coach of this team can't and won't take that away, and boycotting or what-have-you does nothing but hinder those relationships because that's the common ground we have, and founded those relationships on.

    So don't be throwing age, experience and etc. in my face thinking I don't know what I'm talking about. All that matters is that I'm valued as a friend and a ticket holder by the staff. 5 years or 25...doesn't matter one bit.

    I'm still a fan.
    Last edited by duke dynamite; 01-03-2011 at 08:13 PM.

  25. #45
    A Magical Place Hoop's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    Whatever, your the one that has several times on here questioned people's fandom. Just throwing back at you.
    Last edited by Hoop; 01-03-2011 at 08:17 PM.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

  26. #46
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    Paying money for tickets is not a requirement for fandom, just as clearly listening to the fans' opinions on why they don't want to pay for tickets is not a requirement for the Pacers brass.

    TPTB can run the team anyway they choose. And I can choose to support or not support those choices with my money.


    OTOH there's no reason to leave PD. This is about one issue with the team, not the overall support. In fact it's my support for the players that has me so upset.


    Really this kind of stuff is a bit like how some people interpreted me (and others) booing the Tyler PICK, as though that was directed at Tyler himself. I understand that at first blush it looks like you are against the person/team, but closer inspection should show that it's a complaint about a specific choice.

    Thus I can think that pick was poor and have doubts about Tyler's chances, yet also revel in his accomplishments as a Pacer too. I'm sure as heck not booing him now and I would only give him constructive criticism if asked. That's not the same as debating the issues with other fans where the IDEA is being attacked.

    So it's the same now with the coaching.



    In fact it's explicitly the level of interest in the team that drives all this hostility. Better to be paying attention and mad than blissfully ignorant of the situation which is where most casual fans remain.


    Seriously. If you KNEW that JOB will get rehired for next year, would you act differently? Can you really blame certain fans—who share my own fears and suspicions—for elevating the protesting and demonstrations?
    I told more than one rep that I was not buying my tickets this year specifically because of the coach. The place is still half empty. The coach remains.

    So it's worse than McKeyFan even suggests. Fans are pulling out money and the team is forcing the issue along. Where's the quick trigger we saw with 3 bad months from a Carlisle team or the fan outrage with Jackson? You couldn't dump the coach of the top West team quick enough, couldn't make a desperation big contract deal quick enough.

    But now it's patience when the only measuring stick is young player development and that's the main thing not getting done?

  27. #47
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    OTOH there's no reason to leave PD. This is about one issue with the team, not the overall support.
    Not quite - that "one issue" is evidently the cause of nearly every other issue, and comments and arguments about JOB work their way into every thread, whether it is about him or not.

    As much as some people might like to actually discuss other causes of our problems - because I don't really think anyone here believes this is a Finals team and all our problems are due to coaching - sooner or later the thread is derailed and the original subject ceases to be discussed except in terms of whether, really, the problem is JOB or not.

    Me, I find that tiring. I'm ready to let the topic go, both because I'm tired of it and because the discussions of the problems are being more specific and using more information than just someone's carry over pre-judgments (that may just be because I've stopped reading some people, though I still manage to see posts with the sound bites like "only chucking 3 point shots" and "only gives lip service to defense". I just try to ignore them.) But it crops up everywhere. I think if we started a thread on the invention of basketball someone would start cursing JOB in it for destroying the beauty of the game and corrupting it forever.

    If I leave PD, it will be due to the fact that it takes too much time to tweeze the interesting and fun stuff out of the overwhelming piling on, thread after thread after thread.
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
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  29. #48
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    There are several really cool features on the forum. If you don't like a thread it. If you find a particular poster really annoying just him/her.

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=59150

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  31. #49
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    A good way to combat one-liners is to ask people specific questions you want answers to that will help steer the discussion in directions you want them to go.

  32. #50
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just a friendly reminder...

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    sooner or later the thread is derailed and the original subject ceases to be discussed except in terms of whether, really, the problem is JOB or not.
    It's like a popsicle that got dropped in the manure pile. You just wanna go back to eating the popsicle like when before it was dropped, but everyone else keeps talking about cleaning the junk off it. They are so annoying.
    .

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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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