Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 41

Thread: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

  1. #1
    Member spazzxb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    fort wayne In
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,828

    Default The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    First, I am not questioning anyone criticism of the end of the game. There are questionable decisions that even I disagree with. I just feel with multiple anger/vent threads this should be highlighted.

    Aside from shooting percentages and free throws we dominated this game. We out rebounded them, made more shots and were superior in every other statistical category. Fouls alone lost us this game. The same coach who made questionable moves at the end also manages a young team that played well enough win. If it weren't for the foul disparity this game wouldn't have even been close. so while you can (and are perfectly welcome) to pick apart every bad move the coach makes he doesn't commit fouls and without the fouls we completely outplayed them today. What ever happened to complaining about the awful or even "awful" officiating?

    http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=310102018

    Indiana New York
    Points 92 98
    FG Made-Attempted 37-99 (.374) 31-73 (.425)
    3P Made-Attempted 7-24 (.292) 7-17 (.412)
    FT Made-Attempted 11-19 (.579) 29-40 (.725)
    Rebounds (Offensive-Total) 21-57 9-45
    Assists 19 16
    Turnovers 14 11
    Steals 10 7
    Blocks 4 12
    Fast Break Points 11 8
    Fouls (Tech/Flagrant) 26 (1/0) 17 (3/0)
    Largest Lead 9 6
    Last edited by spazzxb; 01-02-2011 at 07:41 PM. Reason: citing source

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to spazzxb For This Useful Post:


  3. #2

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    I think you figure you are going to not get the call favor in MSG. You don't figure your own coach is going to make it difficult for you to win in the crucial moments of the game.
    Last edited by rock747; 01-02-2011 at 06:27 PM.

  4. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Evansville, IN
    Posts
    1,078

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    Tough to draw fouls when your offense consists of long distance jump shooting

  5. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to purdue101 For This Useful Post:


  6. #4
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,820

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    Did you notice how often N.Y. had shots either right at the rim or within the paint area?

    I'm still not exactly sure how they got that deep that often on us.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  7. #5
    Member spazzxb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    fort wayne In
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,828

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    my window into the game was low resolution, so I ended up listening as much as watching and really didn't see as much as i would have liked.

  8. #6
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    Apparently CBS Sports provides a shot chart:

    http://www.cbssports.com/nba/gametra...0110102_IND@NY

  9. #7
    Member Dr. Awesome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Posts
    4,271

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Apparently CBS Sports provides a shot chart:

    http://www.cbssports.com/nba/gametra...0110102_IND@NY

    What about that stat website you signed up for? Do they do it on a game by game basis?

  10. #8
    Member owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,463

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    Until the Pacers get some more power inside and a different offense this is what we
    are going to end up with.
    {o,o}
    |)__)
    -"-"-

  11. #9
    Member spazzxb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    fort wayne In
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,828

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Apparently CBS Sports provides a shot chart:

    http://www.cbssports.com/nba/gametra...0110102_IND@NY
    We missed alot of midrange shots.

  12. #10
    Member IndySDExport's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Durham/Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    877

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    Foul disparity is nothing new. We are a jump shooting team. This discrepancy happens almost every game.

  13. #11
    Member spazzxb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    fort wayne In
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,828

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    If anyone else has an Ipod, definitely check out "NBA Game time court side". It is an Awesome App for game stats.


  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to spazzxb For This Useful Post:


  15. #12
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Johnson's Bay, Lake Wawasee
    Age
    28
    Posts
    5,357

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If anyone else has an Ipod, definitely check out "NBA Game time court side". It is an Awesome App for game stats.

    Also very good for IPad. Especially if you have League Pass as well.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

  16. #13

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We missed alot of midrange shots.
    i agree. plus when jeff fouled out, pacers had no one left to play stoudemire.

  17. #14
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    i agree. plus when jeff fouled out, pacers had no one left to play stoudemire.
    I would have used Josh.

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Hicks For This Useful Post:


  19. #15

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I would have used Josh.
    i expected josh, but do not think he would have been successful. josh hasn't shown the ability to defend good players in the post. don't know if he just isn't big and strong enough or if it is technique or awareness, but he just can't defend quality post play.

  20. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In a Gym
    Age
    22
    Posts
    16,882
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    i expected josh, but do not think he would have been successful. josh hasn't shown the ability to defend good players in the post. don't know if he just isn't big and strong enough or if it is technique or awareness, but he just can't defend quality post play.
    he goes for the block to much falls for pump fakes.

  21. #17
    Member spazzxb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    fort wayne In
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,828

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Also very good for IPad. Especially if you have League Pass as well.
    I actually meant to say IPAD.

  22. #18
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,638

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    Fouls alone lost us this game.
    Okay, well then let's take a closer look at that whole "ZERO PT FOR McROBERTS IN THE 2ND HALF" thing...

    First off Turiaf did block two shots by Josh when he first entered the game. Okay, I can see that being an issue. He's in for only 3 minutes and yanked for Dun after the 2nd shot is blocked and NY comes back and scores.

    The problem is that after that Josh proceeded to do the following:

    He re-enters the game at the 8 minute mark of the 2nd, the Pacers are now down by 1. 20 seconds later Posey also comes in pushing Josh to the 5 spot. 2 minutes later Posey has missed 2 3pt shots and they are down 6.

    Josh then gets the OFF REB, off to Collison, miss, Josh gets the OFF REB and...

    FOULED (1) by Amare

    In bounds, 8 seconds later on a pass from Collison Josh is...

    FOULED (2) while making a layup by Chandler

    (Hibby enters for Posey and proceeds to draw his own foul 15 seconds after coming in - Turiaf)

    Couple of possessions later Danny misses a shot and...

    FOULED (3) while going for the offensive board by Amare

    (Hibby draws another foul at the 2 minute mark - Turiaf)

    Around the 1 minute mark on offense Josh is again...

    FOULED (4) by Chandler


    So in 8 minutes the Pacers have drawn 6 total fouls, 4 by Josh and 2 by Hibbert.

    The Knicks had only 3 players with 4 fouls - the 3 that just collected 2 each on Josh and Roy during this 8 minute stretch.

    6 fouls in 8 minutes translates to 36 fouls in a 48 minute game. The Knicks had a total of 17, so they had 11 fouls in the other 40 minutes, twice the fouls in only 5 times the amount of PT.

    The 3 guys that collected those fouls for the Knicks were also their 3 top rebounders and of course Amare was their top scorer too.


    Oh, and for good measure as Josh is shooting the 2nd FT on that 4th foul he drew, out goes Hibby for Posey because, you know, why keep going with what's working.

    Posey helps out by missing the final shot of the period, another 3PA.



    Would I like for Josh to shoot better than 2-5 from the FT line? Of course. But I like 5 FTAs a lot better than the 0 FTAs Posey drew in the 19 minutes he got.



    And having said this rant, do you know what that flurry of mismatch problems that Josh was giving the Knicks meant for his playing time in the 2nd half? ZERO FREAKING MINUTES.

    He and Hibby took it from -6 to 0 in about 6 minutes and actually put a little foul trouble hurt on key Knicks players.


    Just when I thought we'd turned the corner, I should have known.

    2nd half minutes
    Josh = 0
    Tyler = 0
    George = 4 (Danio burned him a bit, but it was still a 1 point game)

    4th quarter minutes
    Foster = 6.5 until he FOULED OUT...that's right, when he got his 5th foul with 6 minutes left JOB just kept on playing him, and when he fould out he brought in Solomon Jones.

    Solo = final 3 minutes even though he only played 6 total in the game.

    Hibbert = 2 minutes at the start, sits from 10 minute mark till 30 second mark

    Posey = all 12 minutes of the 4th quarter...the ENTIRE 4th. You know, when they scored 15 total points.


    Amare finished off the Pacers with 6 straight points going against the monster closer tandem frontline of Posey and Solomon Jones. The first 2 shots were at the rim!

    Again that's your final 3 minutes of a 1pt ball game and you play POSEY AND SOLO as your front line.

    Hibbert was NOT fouled out (he had 2), Josh didn't even play a single minute of the 2nd half and had ZERO fouls, ie he could have been a lot more aggressive than Foster.

    He didn't return to Josh, didn't even look at Tyler. This effort has all the markings of an intentional tank job if I didn't think JOB was addicted to "vets that give him a shot at winning but tend to lose the games anyway".

  23. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Naptown_Seth For This Useful Post:

    + Show/Hide list of the thanked


  24. #19
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,638

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Dale Davis goes for the block too much, falls for pump fakes.
    Fixed to reflect the first 2 years of Dale's career where the coach just KEPT ON PLAYING HIM ANYWAY TILL HE LEARNED BETTER.

    What were those 6 fouls by Jeff then? Not falling for fakes? Not getting beat. Jeff had 6 fouls in 23 minutes, Solo had 2 fouls in 6 minutes, Josh had 0 fouls in 11 minutes. So I see 2 other bigs getting beat pretty regularly rather than stuff up the middle.


    ALL THE KNICKS SCORING WHILE JOSH WAS ON COURT:

    First stint comes on while Danio at the FT line already

    Felton 18 ft jumper (no assist)

    Shawne Williams 3pt (Douglas assist)

    2nd stint comes on while Amare at the FT line already

    Chandler 2 FTs (Rush foul)

    Gallinari layup (no assist)

    Douglas layup (no assist)

    Amare 1-2 FTs (Rush blocking)

    Shawne Williams 22 ft jumper (no assist)

    Douglas 2-2 FT (Hibbert foul)

    Gallinari 2-2 FT (Granger foul)


    So where is all this low post scoring that Josh couldn't stop today?? 0 fouls, so he didn't go chasing into trouble. Unassisted layups so he didn't fly at one guy only to have it dished behind him.

    I see Amare and Turiaf doing jack squat during these 2 stretches, apart from the 2 Josh shots that Turiaf blocked early.



    OTOH I do see some inside scoring in that final 3 minutes of the game, long after Josh could have left the arena.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 01-02-2011 at 10:23 PM.

  25. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Naptown_Seth For This Useful Post:


  26. #20
    woman without a team
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,055

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    What ever happened to complaining about the awful or even "awful" officiating?
    No sense in complaining about officating because the organization has no control over that. However, if the coach is making stupid moves and/or the players are just plain that's something to complain about.

  27. #21
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,638

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    Can I rant one more much shorter bit, something easy to digest.


    Having shown the PT above, the 12 minutes for Posey, 6.5 for Foster till he fouled out, TJ Ford gets the first 10 minutes of the 4th before coming out and basically this lineup - Ford, Rush, Granger, Posey, Foster - I think it's fair to say that JOB got to have his kind of lineup on the court in the 4th.

    Rush might bug him but he does shoot a pretty good 3, Granger is his 3pt sweetheart and something of a vet now, and of course TJ, Posey and Foster are all past-their-prime vets.

    So other than Dun for Rush (Dun did get 2 minutes early in the 4th) this is the JOB dream.

    The Knicks are infamous for not exactly being a defensive lockdown team with a coach who isn't exactly known for his concerns about that end of the court. Their star Amare couldn't care less about defense.

    So JOB's dream squad goes against a rather poor defensive team and...

    SCORES 15 POINTS


    End of story.

    You showed us what you could do if you played your boys with your style against a favorable defensive opponent and it sucked.


    PS - A GOOD SYSTEM WOULD NOT NEED GRANGER TO STAY HOT FROM 3 IN ORDER TO TO PUT UP POINTS. Enough with the Granger slump. Maybe the slump is due to the types of shots the system helps him get.

  28. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Naptown_Seth For This Useful Post:


  29. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In a Gym
    Age
    22
    Posts
    16,882
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Fixed to reflect the first 2 years of Dale's career where the coach just KEPT ON PLAYING HIM ANYWAY TILL HE LEARNED BETTER.

    What were those 6 fouls by Jeff then? Not falling for fakes? Not getting beat. Jeff had 6 fouls in 23 minutes, Solo had 2 fouls in 6 minutes, Josh had 0 fouls in 11 minutes. So I see 2 other bigs getting beat pretty regularly rather than stuff up the middle.


    ALL THE KNICKS SCORING WHILE JOSH WAS ON COURT:

    First stint comes on while Danio at the FT line already

    Felton 18 ft jumper (no assist)

    Shawne Williams 3pt (Douglas assist)

    2nd stint comes on while Amare at the FT line already

    Chandler 2 FTs (Rush foul)

    Gallinari layup (no assist)

    Douglas layup (no assist)

    Amare 1-2 FTs (Rush blocking)

    Shawne Williams 22 ft jumper (no assist)

    Douglas 2-2 FT (Hibbert foul)

    Gallinari 2-2 FT (Granger foul)


    So where is all this low post scoring that Josh couldn't stop today?? 0 fouls, so he didn't go chasing into trouble. Unassisted layups so he didn't fly at one guy only to have it dished behind him.

    I see Amare and Turiaf doing jack squat during these 2 stretches, apart from the 2 Josh shots that Turiaf blocked early.



    OTOH I do see some inside scoring in that final 3 minutes of the game, long after Josh could have left the arena.
    I didnt say he can't learn better defense but JOB problly isnt patience enghot to play him thur struggles. Which is sad we are rebuliding we need to play the young guys to win and to devolpe them for the future.

  30. #23
    Droppin' knowledge, yo. Mackey_Rose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    The Dragon's Lair
    Posts
    4,143

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    I left my house at halftime of the game to head downtown in plenty of time to make it to my seat for the kickoff of the Colts game. I recorded the game and planned on watching the second half tonight when I got home.

    Thanks for saving me the time O'Brien.

    I listened to the second half on the radio and heard all I needed to hear, to know that watching it, would only turn me from mostly apathetic about this team to entirely apoplectic that this white sideburned joke of a man, still has my absolute dream job.

  31. The Following User Says Thank You to Mackey_Rose For This Useful Post:


  32. #24

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    I saw John Starks at the game. When Jim put Posey on Amare, John turned and said "Man, did this dude just did this"?

  33. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to imawhat For This Useful Post:


  34. #25

    Default Re: The real reason we lost to the Knicks

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Can I rant one more much shorter bit, something easy to digest.


    Having shown the PT above, the 12 minutes for Posey, 6.5 for Foster till he fouled out, TJ Ford gets the first 10 minutes of the 4th before coming out and basically this lineup - Ford, Rush, Granger, Posey, Foster - I think it's fair to say that JOB got to have his kind of lineup on the court in the 4th.

    Rush might bug him but he does shoot a pretty good 3, Granger is his 3pt sweetheart and something of a vet now, and of course TJ, Posey and Foster are all past-their-prime vets.

    So other than Dun for Rush (Dun did get 2 minutes early in the 4th) this is the JOB dream.

    The Knicks are infamous for not exactly being a defensive lockdown team with a coach who isn't exactly known for his concerns about that end of the court. Their star Amare couldn't care less about defense.

    So JOB's dream squad goes against a rather poor defensive team and...

    SCORES 15 POINTS


    End of story.

    You showed us what you could do if you played your boys with your style against a favorable defensive opponent and it sucked.


    PS - A GOOD SYSTEM WOULD NOT NEED GRANGER TO STAY HOT FROM 3 IN ORDER TO TO PUT UP POINTS. Enough with the Granger slump. Maybe the slump is due to the types of shots the system helps him get.
    And DC sat the end of the third, and most of the fourth. And when he came back in, he was played out of position.

    And he was having his best game as a Pacer, and he was really the only Pacer (besides Josh and Danny in the first half) having a great game.

    Fantastic coaching righ there.

  35. The Following User Says Thank You to Sookie For This Useful Post:


Similar Threads

  1. Problem with Knicks and Dampier?
    By Sollozzo in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-09-2004, 10:30 AM
  2. ESPN Insider 8/3/04
    By Hicks in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-04-2004, 11:56 AM
  3. Knicks Pacers one more time (New York Daily News)
    By Ragnar in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-05-2004, 02:40 PM
  4. Weekend Recap 03-07: News from Around the NBA
    By kerosene in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-07-2004, 04:12 PM
  5. Tales From Reggie Miller Vol. IV
    By Hicks in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 02-05-2004, 09:08 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •