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Thread: Collison choked at the end . . . and should keep closing games.

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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Collison choked at the end . . . and should keep closing games.

    Collison choked against the Celts today.

    He made a bad pass for a turnover in the last couple minutes. He bricked a three.

    More importantly, during our last chance with a run that included Danny sinking three free throws, Collison was caught ball gawking and his man Nate Robinson made a layup. That pretty much sealed it.

    But here's our perennial problem: JOB is likely to switch something up now because Collison didn't do well tonight down the stretch. He needs to keep playing DC, and DC needs to learn from his mistakes. He needs to be shamed during film session into learning how to keep his man in his peripheral vision.

    More experience will help him make better decisions during clutch time. DC has the talent, ability, and poise to be a great player down the stretch. He also needs the opportunities to fail and learn so he will become that player.

    Keep playing him down the stretch, Jim.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Collison choked at the end . . . and should keep closing games.

    and granger's 5-20 performance 1-7 from three with 4 turnovers isn't choking?

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    Default Re: Collison choked at the end . . . and should keep closing games.

    Today was a good chance. He'll get another one sometime soon.

    But he should not be given free reign to play down the stretch. Mix sitting and playing.

    I don't discourage him playing down the stretch. I don't discourage him from playing down the stretch in at least 75% our remaining close games for the rest of the year. '

    But I don't think its right to not switch things up. I think he should play, but not as much as you imply.

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    Default Re: Collison choked at the end . . . and should keep closing games.

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    and granger's 5-20 performance 1-7 from three with 4 turnovers isn't choking?
    No doubt.

    But there is not a question of JOB pulling Danny at the end of games.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Collison choked at the end . . . and should keep closing games.

    Quote Originally Posted by flox View Post
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    Today was a good chance. He'll get another one sometime soon.

    But he should not be given free reign to play down the stretch. Mix sitting and playing.

    I don't discourage him playing down the stretch. I don't discourage him from playing down the stretch in at least 75% our remaining close games for the rest of the year. '

    But I don't think its right to not switch things up. I think he should play, but not as much as you imply.
    75 percent agreement? Coming from you?

    I'll take it.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Collison choked at the end . . . and should keep closing games.

    Quote Originally Posted by flox View Post
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    Today was a good chance. He'll get another one sometime soon.

    But he should not be given free reign to play down the stretch. Mix sitting and playing.

    I don't discourage him playing down the stretch. I don't discourage him from playing down the stretch in at least 75% our remaining close games for the rest of the year. '

    But I don't think its right to not switch things up. I think he should play, but not as much as you imply.

    Ya , but wouldn't you rather DC learn from his mistakes early on in the season? I'd much rather he learn early on .. NOT when we are trying to make a push for the playoffs or actually IN the playoffs when we need his "A-game" the most...
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
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    Default Re: Collison choked at the end . . . and should keep closing games.

    Are we sure that he (and Danny) was choking or just playing poorly/demonstrating a lack of NBA maturity? To me, choking is Ewing missing the layup that could have won the game or Karl Malone's 4th quarter playoff career. It's showing that, when you have a chance to win the game for your team, you blow it because of a lack of mental fortitude and/or competitiveness. Was C-Webb a "choker" or just not meant to be the "main guy?"

    I agree with the overall sentiment that DC needs to play and develop if he is to be our PG for the future. I think we have to give him that chance, though he himself had better work for it. Especially on the defensive end.

    I think, though, we are approaching a double standard for our coach. We may praise him for playing a backup at the end of the game when the starter has been struggling; this is generally seen as brave or at least unconventional. But the next game we praise him for leaving in the starter despite certain struggles.

    I'm not saying that DC shouldn't finish games. I'm just saying we should try to, just like a coach should, remain consistent in our approach. If the coach or player veers off to the side, we call him on it. But as hardcore fans we have to stay on point as well.

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    Default Re: Collison choked at the end . . . and should keep closing games.

    Quote Originally Posted by AesopRockOn View Post
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    Are we sure that he (and Danny) was choking or just playing poorly/demonstrating a lack of NBA maturity? To me, choking is Ewing missing the layup that could have won the game or Karl's Malone playoff career. It's showing that, when you have a chance to win the game for your team, you blow it because of a lack of mental fortitude and/or competitiveness.

    I agree with the overall sentiment that DC needs to play and develop if he is to be our PG for the future. I think we have to give him that chance, though he himself had better work for it.

    I think, though, we are approaching a double standard for our coach. We may praise him for playing a backup at the end of the game when the starter has been struggling; this is generally seen as brave or at least unconventional. But the next game we praise him for leaving in the starter despite certain struggles.

    I'm not saying that DC shouldn't finish games. I'm just saying we should try to, just like a coach should, remain consistent in our approach. If the coach or player veers off to the side, we call him on it. But as hardcore fans we have to stay on point as well.
    Agreed.

    I think the consistent position is not to pull your starter/closer.

    After several games of not performing, you might consider changing your starting line up. Otherwise, stick with your plan.

    I think choking is making bad plays and mistakes down the stretch. Collison making a pass straight into the opponents hands, with less than two minutes to go, is a choke. I don't remember him making such a bad pass the entire game until then.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Collison choked at the end . . . and should keep closing games.

    Wait, this is only Collison's second season? Shoot, in that case we should throw him under the bus more often!

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    Default Re: Collison choked at the end . . . and should keep closing games.

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Agreed.

    I think the consistent position is not to pull your starter/closer.

    After several games of not performing, you might consider changing your starting line up. Otherwise, stick with your plan.

    I think choking is making bad plays and mistakes down the stretch. Collison making a pass straight into the opponents hands, with less than two minutes to go, is a choke. I don't remember him making such a bad pass the entire game until then.
    I couldn't watch the last couple minutes of the game due to Internet issues, but from what you're saying the pass seems like at least a partial choke play.

    I think the main factor in play with choking is pressure. How a player responds to a large amount of pressure is important. But nearly as important IMO is whether the player actually has the ability to perform the actual play. For example, I don't regard Foster's infamous airball against the Lakers as choking because I don't think Foster actual has the ability or expectation to perform that play.

    Collison rushing and throwing a bad pass under pressure seems like a slight choke but also a lack of poise and IQ that comes with being a second year player. The ability to consistently make big plays down the stretch might not be something DC has in his arsenal quite yet.

    I've been retooling my expectations for him ever since the first couple of game and I"m still not sure where I stand. It's a huge question for both this franchise and Darren himself. Either way, more time is needed.

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    Default Re: Collison choked at the end . . . and should keep closing games.

    Maybe DC was choking because he thinks he is getting benched in 4th quarters after failing..
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    Default Re: Collison choked at the end . . . and should keep closing games.

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Keep playing him down the stretch, Jim.
    Or at the very least play AJ... but for the love of the gods, don't play TJ big mins. Especially to close the games.
    If it is not obvious already after 4 freakin years of this bull**** coaching, that Jim is terrible and very very slow at his adjustments then I give you Tyler Hansbrough and AJ Price as exhibit A & B.
    Last edited by PaceBalls; 12-19-2010 at 05:53 PM.

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    Default Re: Collison choked at the end . . . and should keep closing games.

    I have no problem with Ford closing games if Ford clearly outplayed Collison.

    If it's even, or if Collison is playing well..it should be Collison.

    the problem I have is that JOB seems unable to determine when that actually happens.

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    Default Re: Collison choked at the end . . . and should keep closing games.

    He had a decent defensive game.

    He's our PG and needs to know how to play through games to the end.

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    Default Re: Collison choked at the end . . . and should keep closing games.

    did not get to see the game today. big Colts win! i think collison will be fine. lets not expect too much from a 2nd year player.

    sounds like the pacers played them tough. boston is a top 3 team full of vets.

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    Default Re: Collison choked at the end . . . and should keep closing games.

    ..Just wanted to bump this because I think Collison proved McKeyFan right last night. He looked like a real point guard, and he was pretty clutch in the end if you ask me with the steal and pass to Danny along with that freethrow line jumper.

    Collison is going to be a baller for us in a couple of years.

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    Default Re: Collison choked at the end . . . and should keep closing games.

    What I Don't Get Is, Some Of Us Fail To Realize That With One Move Larry Bird Erased The Mishap Which Was The 09 Draft. IMHO, Im Glad We Did Not Draft DC Last Year. If So, In This System, With No NBA Experience, Some Of Us Would Be Calling For His Head On A Platter. Im Glad Larry Had A Chance To Evaluate DC From The Outside and Ultimately Steal A Potential Future Star.

    DC, Rush, Danny and Roy Are The Pillar To A Future That Is So Bright That I Just Gotta Put My Shades On.

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