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Thread: Questions from a non-Pacers fan

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    Default Questions from a non-Pacers fan

    Hello there. I've been to this forum a few times in the past month or so, being led by google a few times.

    I'm not from Indiana, and haven't been a Pacers fan. In the past few years, I've probably only watched a couple of games. Granger was my first pick on my fantasy team this year, and since I enjoy watching teams that have my players on it, I caught a few of the first games of the season. My team's also very bad, so I added some waiver wire replacements.. Rush, Dunleavy, and McRoberts.. 2 of which are still on my team. So with more Pacers on my team than any other, I started watching all of the Pacer games.

    Besides having guys on my fantasy team, I really liked watching them for the first month. Seeing how they played against the Heat and the Lakers, everything about them screamed 'team'. Good defense, motion offense getting everyone involved and they just looked like an atypical nba team. No boring isolation plays every other possession, very good team defense, and a lot of movement off the ball.

    I'm also a Duke fan, and the last I'd seen of McRoberts, he was a sophomore there on a comparatively bad team. Certainly didn't look ready for the NBA and honestly I didn't even realize he was still in the league. But here he was, in a system that seemed to fit him well, and playing on a team that looked like it had a lot of chemistry and played the right way. Fun stuff. Granger looked like a superstar who could play both ends, yet another player benefiting from team usa experience, and a guy who looked like he was happy to defer to teammates, bought into the system, and didn't mind a decrease in #s for the sake of winning. Hibbert didn't even look recognizable from the last time I saw him, and Collison was a player who looked really good in NO last year. With all that, I quickly turned into a fairweather fan who checked for the Pacers game first above the other games on nba league pass. Throw in one of the most impressive offensive quarters against my home team in the Nuggets and I was sold.



    So with all that said, they look like a totally different team now in mid December. The least interesting team to watch for me this year has been Sacremento, with their lack of chemistry, weird rotations and lineups, and just bad overall play. Hate to say it, but this Pacers team now has a lot of similarities with that team. Like them, it looks like almost anyone on the team can be benched for quarters, halfs, or even taken out of the rotation. Having Rush and Dunleavy in and out of the starting lineup, while not as bad as the constant changing lineups for the Kings, appears to be disruptive. Granger seems the only one immune to benching for poor play, and even when people are playing well, they seem to end up on the bench at odd times.


    So I have a few questions for you guys who are Pacer fans and have watched them for years.

    1. Why did they get Darren Collison?

    He doesn't seem to have a skillset that fits the system they have here at all. I would think more of a Fisher type of guy would have fit better. A defensive minded PG who can hit spot up shots and doesn't need to create. It seems the only time they ask the PG to do point guard stuff on this team is when the shot clock is running low, or at the end of the quarter. But a reluctant 3 pointer who isn't a great defensive player? Seems like a bad choice.


    2. Why did they trade Troy Murphy for him? From watching where the power forwards are positioned on offense (3 point line or high post), and who they're guarding (Hibbert still usually has the better post player), I don't understand why they got rid of him. The benching against the Lakers suggested that O'Brien just wanted to look at the box score at half time and see some rebounds on there for his PF, despite standing at the 3 point line on offense. Murphy could give you that at least.

    3. Is OBrien on the hot seat? He seems to really alienate the players with rotations, benching, and comments in the press. The chemistry and 'team' part that I saw before seems to be completely gone after a month and a half. While I really liked the systems they were playing previously and the motion offense, it already appears quite a bit different. Hibbert isn't getting the ball in the post. McRoberts looks like he's afraid to shoot or do anything really after a miss or 2. Collison looks completely lost. Only Rush and Dunleavy look comfortable on offense right now. And they look hugely dependent on 3 point shooting.

    4. Who do you guys think should be playing at PF? I thought Tyler was the future, but he somehow was completely out of the rotation until last night. I think McRoberts fits the system a lot better and is a young guy too, but OBrien seems to be playing him because he likes Tyler less, not that he actually likes what McRoberts is doing.

    5. What's with the rotations, benching, and platoons? Is this what OBrien commonly does, or is this just him trying to figure out what's working or who should be playing? Seems like it would be extremely hard for everyone but Granger to get comfortable when your minutes are up for grab every single game.


    Really confused on how this team looked like one of the most fun to watch in the nba to one of the worst in a matter of a few weeks. Help me understand, thanks!
    Last edited by koVe; 12-17-2010 at 12:20 AM.

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    Default Re: Questions from a non-Pacers fan

    Quote Originally Posted by koVe View Post
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    Hello there. I've been to this forum a few times in the past month or so, being led by google a few times.

    I'm not from Indiana, and haven't been a Pacers fan. In the past few years, I've probably only watched a couple of games. Granger was my first pick on my fantasy team this year, and since I enjoy watching games that has my players on it, I caught a few of the first games of the season. My team's also very bad, so I added some waiver wire replacements.. Rush, Dunleavy, and McRoberts.. 2 of which are still on my team. So with more Pacers on my team than any other, I started watching all of the Pacer games.

    Besides having guys on my fantasy team, I really liked watching them for the first month. Seeing how they played against the Heat and the Lakers, everything about them screamed 'team'. Good defense, motion offense getting everyone involved and they just looked like an atypical nba team. No boring isolation plays every other possession, very good team defense, and a lot of movement off the ball.

    I'm also a Duke fan, and the last I'd seen of McRoberts, he was a sophomore there on a comparatively bad team. Certainly didn't look ready for the NBA and honestly I didn't even realize he was still in the league. But here he was, in a system that seemed to fit him well, and playing on a team that looked like it had a lot of chemistry and played the right way. Fun stuff. Granger looked like a superstar who could play both ends, yet another player benefiting from team usa experience, and a guy who looked like he was happy to defer to teammates, bought into the system, and didn't mind a decrease in #s for the sake of winning. Hibbert didn't even look recognizable from the last time I saw him, and Collison was a player who looked really good in NO last year. With all that, I quickly turned into a fairweather fan who checked for the Pacers game first above the other games on nba league pass. Throw in one of the most impressive offensive quarters against my home team in the Nuggets and I sold.



    So with all that said, they look like a totally different team now in mid December. The least interesting team to watch for me this year has been Sacremento, with their lack of chemistry, weird rotations and lineups, and just bad overall play. Hate to say it, but this Pacers team now has a lot of similarities with that team. Like them, it looks like almost anyone on the team can be benched for quarters, halfs, or even taken out of the rotation. Having Rush and Dunleavy in and out of the starting lineup, while not as bad as the constant changing lineups for the Kings, appears to be disruptive. Granger seems the only one immune to benching for poor play, and even when people are playing well, they seem to end up on the bench at odd times.


    So I have a few questions for you guys who are Pacer fans and have watched them for years.

    1. Why did they get Darren Collison?

    He doesn't seem to have a skillset that fits the system they have here at all. I would think more of a Fisher type of guy would have fit better. A defensive minded PG who can hit spot up shots and doesn't need to create. It seems the only time they ask the PG to do point guard stuff on this team is when the shot clock is running low, or at the end of the quarter. But a reluctant 3 pointer who isn't a great defensive player? Seems like a bad choice.
    2. Why did they trade Troy Murphy for him? From watching where the power forwards are positioned on offense (3 point line or high post), and who they're guarding (Hibbert still usually has the better post player), I don't understand why they got rid of him. The benching against the Lakers suggested that O'Brien just wanted to look at the box score at half time and see some rebounds on there for his PF, despite standing at the 3 point line on offense. Murphy could give you that at least.

    3. Is OBrien on the hot seat? He seems to really alienate the players with rotations, benching, and comments in the press. The chemistry and 'team' part that I saw before seems to be completely gone after a month and a half. While I really liked the systems they were playing previously and the motion offense, it already appears quite a bit different. Hibbert isn't getting the ball in the post. McRoberts looks like he's afraid to shoot or do anything really after a miss or 2. Collison looks completely lost. Only Rush and Dunleavy look comfortable on offense right now. And they look hugely dependent on 3 point shooting.

    4. Who do you guys think should be playing at PF? I thought Tyler was the future, but he somehow was completely out of the rotation until last night. I think McRoberts fits the system a lot better and is a young guy too, but OBrien seems to be playing him because he likes Tyler less, not that he actually likes what McRoberts is doing.

    5. What's with the rotations, benching, and platoons? Is this what OBrien commonly does, or is this just him trying to figure out what's working or who should be playing? Seems like it would be extremely hard for everyone but Granger to get comfortable when your minutes are up for grab every single game.


    Really confused on how this team looked like one of the most fun to watch in the nba to one of the worst in a matter of a few weeks. Help me understand, thanks!
    No pg has the skill set to make JOB happy. Collison will be good under a different coach. That will let him be a playmaker.


    Getting rid of Murphy made our team better he was a cancer


    JOB better be on the hottest seat ever or i might not watch this team for a long time after this season if he isnt fired before next season.


    and to answer number 5 i am think JOB is bi-polar he saysone thing and doesnt aother. He also has no feel for the game so is rotations are horrible
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 12-17-2010 at 12:06 AM.

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    Default Re: Questions from a non-Pacers fan

    1) Collison was supposed to be an upgrade and an opportunity to offload Murphy. Collison probably an upgrade even though everything you say is correct.

    2) Murphy was traded because Larry Bird has some sense. I cannot tell you why JOb played him but Jersey has him properly positioned on the bench.

    3) He should be because he's been trying to force a square peg in a round hole since he's been in Indy. His strategy and the players Larry is acquiring do not match.

    4) I think Tyler should be playing because I think he will be more productive on offense and I believe he plays with force, something this team desperately needs.

    5) This is how JOb coaches and why there is constant screeching on PD.

    BTW, you are a quick study. As for what happened in December:

    1) Tyler was benched
    2) McRoberts was asked to play Murphy 3 ball
    3) Teams starting scouting the Pacers more based on their success (maybe)
    4) We played several good teams in December. LA, Utah, Chicago, Atlanta and Milwaukee is under-rated.

    It's a combination of the above IMHO.

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    Default Re: Questions from a non-Pacers fan

    Trying to be patient, but the dramatic 180 turn you're talking is pushing me closer and closer to a mindset that we'll never make true progress until JOB is out of here. I'll give him until mid to late Jan. before I completely give up on him.

    The PF position is a real cluster****. We just don't have talent or depth. In fact, if you look at our 4-5 rotation all together, it's probably the weakest in the NBA. So that's not all JOB there.
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    Default Re: Questions from a non-Pacers fan

    These have to be most thought out (and accurate) questions that I have ever read on this forum. You've pretty much summarized the entire season, our concerns, and our preferences in your first post. I applaud you on your first post!

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    Default Re: Questions from a non-Pacers fan

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    As for what happened in December:

    1) Tyler was benched
    2) McRoberts was asked to play Murphy 3 ball
    3) Teams starting scouting the Pacers more based on their success (maybe)
    4) We played several good teams in December. LA, Utah, Chicago, Atlanta and Milwaukee is under-rated.

    It's a combination of the above IMHO.
    I agree wholeheartedly with 1, 3, & 4. I really don't think that McRoberts has been asked to change his game since November.

    I'd also add number 5 - Granger and Hibbert started playing like crap at the same time.
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    Default Re: Questions from a non-Pacers fan

    Good questions.

    I'd say that the answer to the first three questions is "This is probably Jim O'Brien's last year."
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    Default Re: Questions from a non-Pacers fan

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    1) Collison was supposed to be an upgrade and an opportunity to offload Murphy. Collison probably an upgrade even though everything you say is correct.

    2) Murphy was traded because Larry Bird has some sense. I cannot tell you why JOb played him but Jersey has him properly positioned on the bench.

    3) He should be because he's been trying to force a square peg in a round hole since he's been in Indy. His strategy and the players Larry is acquiring do not match.

    4) I think Tyler should be playing because I think he will be more productive on offense and I believe he plays with force, something this team desperately needs.

    5) This is how JOb coaches and why there is constant screeching on PD.

    BTW, you are a quick study. As for what happened in December:

    1) Tyler was benched
    2) McRoberts was asked to play Murphy 3 ball
    3) Teams starting scouting the Pacers more based on their success (maybe)
    4) We played several good teams in December. LA, Utah, Chicago, Atlanta and Milwaukee is under-rated.

    It's a combination of the above IMHO.
    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    I agree wholeheartedly with 1, 3, & 4. I really don't think that McRoberts has been asked to change his game since November.

    I'd also add number 5 - Granger and Hibbert started playing like crap at the same time.
    Agree. I don't get the McBob-Murphy ball thing you're on, BnG.

    I think that the key is 3-teams have us scouted now. We're very stoppable on offense because our center hasn't adjusted to being adjusted to. And our best player was in a bit of a slump/injured. They'll bounce back once we get some counter-adjustments going.

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    Default Re: Questions from a non-Pacers fan

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    Agree. I don't get the McBob-Murphy ball thing you're on, BnG.

    I think that the key is 3-teams have us scouted now. We're very stoppable on offense because our center hasn't adjusted to being adjusted to. And our best player was in a bit of a slump/injured. They'll bounce back once we get some counter-adjustments going.
    Yes, you are correct I am "on" something. I am very pleased with what I believe is a recent change in the way McBob is being asked to play.

    Just look at the 3 pt attempts by McBob starting in December versus November:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/...deiGD9ktWrPaB4

    He had more attempts in the first 6 December games than he had the previous 16 games. Last night was the first game he did not attempt a three in the month of December. More important, there was never a time where it looked like he was even considering shooting the three. Not even considering it.

    Instead, he was posting up. Yes, Josh McRoberts posted up. Also, he was dribble driving to the hoop with some success. This is like an early Christmas present for me.

    IMO, JOb has slowly become frustrated because his strategies are not working very well...and it boiled over a little during the Laker game...and into the press. The good news is that he recognizes the problem. He knows the team needs to play with more force in the paint, grab rebounds, etc.

    This includes mixing it up in the paint on offense. Forcing Hibbert's man to help on McBob cannot be done when McBob is standing on the perimeter. This reduces the chance the guy guarding Hibbert gets in foul trouble...and is only one reason why offensive strategy has a huge impact on defense. Also, McBob cannot get offensive boards...or smack the ball off the backboard to Hibbert for the dunk last night when he's on the perimeter. This is a tiny sampling of the costs you have to cover by stretching with your PF.

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    Default Re: Questions from a non-Pacers fan

    Jim O'Brien's system tends to make point guards look bad and everyone TO prone. He is not a long-term fixture of the team. He was a stop-gap coach.

    At the same time,I don't want to completely blame the coach- the team has had lackluster efforts and Granger even admitted to coasting- but O'Brien really is bad.
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