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Thread: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

  1. #1

    Default Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    I mean yes Manning has been terrible and he deserves criticism as well as our defense etc. But I noticed in all the Colts bashing that nobody in the national media has even mentioned Caldwell as a factor in any of this?

    I mean if Romo is bad, Wade Phillips was also blamed for his demeanor bad coaching decisions etc.

    Favre/Childress is another example

    Of course this past season their teams were totally out of it. But not once has Caldwell ever been criticized over anything and I find that rather baffling I mean Marvin Lewis gets criticized for being less than stellar and so is Carson Palmer.

    I was wondering if anyone else has noticed this or maybe its just me.

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    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Because he's a nice guy, Tony Dungy disciple, who went to the SB in his first season as HC. He'll get a pass for the rest of this season. Maybe not from Colts fans, but certainly from the national media.

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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    Because he's a nice guy, Tony Dungy disciple, who went to the SB in his first season as HC. He'll get a pass for the rest of this season. Maybe not from Colts fans, but certainly from the national media.


    Maybe but Caldwell doesn't have the reputation of Dungy at least as far as fame.

  5. #4

    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    I noticed that. I think there are a lot of Colts fan who have some not so nice things to say about Caldwell though.

    I give him a lot of blame but not as much as Polian.

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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Manning calls the play so u cant blame jim for not running the football

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    Can see thru wooden doors dal9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    insane # of injuries?

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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Probably because if you asked the average NFL fan who Jim Caldwell was the majority wouldn't even know who he is.

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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Just giving the anecdotal impression of an outside source, I have some friends who only started watching the Colts this year because of me, and they don't get the impression of Caldwell as like Wade Phillips at all. Phillips looked befuddled half the time, Caldwell looks stoic, pretty much the same as Dungy. Yes Bill Simmons and Pats fans make "undead" jokes but I honestly like things he's done, like the increased blitzing. And seriously, his rookie season, he goes 14-2, only losing because of (what most people seem to believe was a management enforced decision) sitting the starters, then you go to the super bowl and lose a well fought game to a great New Orleans team? I think people are more willing to blame the injuries or even Manning and the offense simply under performing than placing the blame on his shoulders.

    Random thought, I recall when Jim Mora was head coach, people thought he didn't show enough emotion on the sidelines. They'd see John Gruden having a conniption and say, "That's who we need!!" Ironic in hindsight, as Mora is mostly known for losing his cool in post game interviews.

    Another random thought while we're at it: I guess I'm Mr sunshine but I'm actually optimistic the Colts can turn this around, if not this year, then next (assuming their is a next year) because that's just what happens in the NFL. The Colts run of playoff appearances is extremely rare, even for good teams. The Patriots missed the playoffs twice during the 2000s (once between super bowl wins), the Steelers 3 times. The Colts had, what, 7 4th quarter comebacks last season to win? How many games this year turned on one play (the manning late int @ NE, the fumble that was recovered by Dallas last Sunday that could have set up the winning FG). Some of it is luck, some of it is just that little bit of difference that comes from say, a quarterback not having the confidence in his line from last year, causing him to make early, bad calls occasionally.

  11. #9

    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Polian should be taking 100X the heat of Caldwell. The dude ripped the offensive line after the Super Bowl, so what does he do? Goes out and makes it worse. Polian has lost his fastball as a team president and architect of the roster. Is Caldwell any good? Hard to tell with what he has to work with.

    Go out a build a roster, Bill Polian. That's not 22 players, or 30, or 45, or even 53. You need quality players top-to-bottom, a solid practice squad, and even a list of players to call a half an hour after another guy gets injured. The Patriots team you saw last night has replaced several key starters due to season-ending injuries since the end of training camp:their right guard (Neal), their right tackle (Kaczur), best all-purpose running back (Faulk), their #1 defensive end (Ty Warren), their #1 corner (Bodden), their #2 safety (McGowan), a pro bowl kicker, several key backups, and others not on IR but not playing either, a pro bowl LG who held out 10 games, and a well-known WR who quit on them. The Colts have been hit even harder by injury, absolutely. Not all of it is fixable on the fly. But still, what do you do? The Patriots had a dozen talented guys ready to be coached up into their new expanded roles. They had contingency plans. Randy Moss totally flakes out? Well, you've already talked to Seattle and they will part with Branch. Kevin Faulk goes down? You've scouted the Jets and can't believe they cut Woodhead (who they were playing at WR, but you KNOW that he was BETTER as a RB in college). Etc. etc. etc.

    Do you think that if, God forbid, Brady and his backup Hoyer had suffered season-ending injuries last night, that Belichick has not already compiled a list a best available quarterbacks suited to his system that he has ALREADY talked to them and perhaps even tried them out, just in the 1-in-100 chance they were needed? I guarantee it. Would it matter? Perhaps not, because certain players have no reasonable replacement. But that same level of detail goes into every role and every player on the team, and that's what team architects do.

    It's not JUST the draft. It's not JUST finding diamonds in the rough in free agency. It's not JUST finding undrafted and even waived players to fit your system. It's not JUST making tough decisions and parting ways with non-productive or perpetually injured players. You have to do ALL of those things, continuously, and not half-heartedly.
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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Is it really Caldwell's Fault? Maybe? Probably not. It's lack of talent!

    Outside of Manning we have no players. I've said this all season (and last) and I always get the same response "you're crazy"; now let me elaborate. Peyton throws it on the money 90% of the time, a 2nd/3rd stringer can be turned into a good player. Example: White, Thame, Collie, Gonzo. None of these players would be signed with another team let alone play (well now they are regarded as "good" they would). Wayne is good because Peyton is throwing him the ball. Any of you that actually watch the full games, tell me Wayne doesn't drop at least 2-4 passes a game. Not over the head passes either, right on the numbers passes. I wish I could pull up a dropped passes stat because Wayne has to be top 3.

    If you take Peyton off this team, no way the Colts win 2 games a season. They need to get him some players. It's insulting not to get him a good Wide Receiver. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on RBs because they have tried to pick up good ones in the draft.

    If they don't want Peyton rocking Purple and Gold next year they better be thinking of signing at least a good WR.

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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    Polian should be taking 100X the heat of Caldwell. The dude ripped the offensive line after the Super Bowl, so what does he do? Goes out and makes it worse. Polian has lost his fastball as a team president and architect of the roster. Is Caldwell any good? Hard to tell with what he has to work with.

    Go out a build a roster, Bill Polian. That's not 22 players, or 30, or 45, or even 53. You need quality players top-to-bottom, a solid practice squad, and even a list of players to call a half an hour after another guy gets injured. The Patriots team you saw last night has replaced several key starters due to season-ending injuries since the end of training camp:their right guard (Neal), their right tackle (Kaczur), best all-purpose running back (Faulk), their #1 defensive end (Ty Warren), their #1 corner (Bodden), their #2 safety (McGowan), a pro bowl kicker, several key backups, and others not on IR but not playing either, a pro bowl LG who held out 10 games, and a well-known WR who quit on them. The Colts have been hit even harder by injury, absolutely. Not all of it is fixable on the fly. But still, what do you do? The Patriots had a dozen talented guys ready to be coached up into their new expanded roles. They had contingency plans. Randy Moss totally flakes out? Well, you've already talked to Seattle and they will part with Branch. Kevin Faulk goes down? You've scouted the Jets and can't believe they cut Woodhead (who they were playing at WR, but you KNOW that he was BETTER as a RB in college). Etc. etc. etc.

    Do you think that if, God forbid, Brady and his backup Hoyer had suffered season-ending injuries last night, that Belichick has not already compiled a list a best available quarterbacks suited to his system that he has ALREADY talked to them and perhaps even tried them out, just in the 1-in-100 chance they were needed? I guarantee it. Would it matter? Perhaps not, because certain players have no reasonable replacement. But that same level of detail goes into every role and every player on the team, and that's what team architects do.

    It's not JUST the draft. It's not JUST finding diamonds in the rough in free agency. It's not JUST finding undrafted and even waived players to fit your system. It's not JUST making tough decisions and parting ways with non-productive or perpetually injured players. You have to do ALL of those things, continuously, and not half-heartedly.
    To be fair it's not really realistic to hold most other teams to Belichick-type standards. . . he's a rare coach in the same way Peyton/Brady are rare QBs.

    I'd be OK with decent depth and some more talent on the lines. And less money invested overall in offense.
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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Speaking of injuries Jerraud Powers broke his arm against Dallas... So yeah...

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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Boombaby, I think you underestimate some of the talent of your top players. My argument is not lack of front-line talent (when healthy), it is the lack of talent for players 40-53+ and also the severe lack of talent on both lines, except for pass rushers.

    -Reggie Wayne was a 1st round pick and if anything slid some. Lots of teams wanted him.

    -Gonzolez was a 1st round draft pick, and maybe he was a little high since most sites gave him a 2nd round grade. Still he was a guy lots of teams wanted. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2007&genpos=WR

    -Collie was a 4th rounder, right in line with draft projections after an amazing college career. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2009&genpos=WR

    -Tamme was a 4th rounder, maybe a little high with his 5-6 round grade http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2008&genpos=TE

    -Blair White was undrafted, and that was somewhat surprising since many sites had him as high as round 3: http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2010&genpos=WR In fact, he was thought to be a "steal" and was a lot more or a known quantity than less-heralded undrafted guys like Woodhead and Green-Ellis: http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-in-the-draft/

    Donald "bust" Brown and Joesph Addai- 1st round picks that lots of other teams wanted too.

    Manning has talent to throw to and perhaps even to hand the ball off to (who would know? Seen any holes?). Everything else is lacking, especially linemen and depth
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Quote Originally Posted by dal9 View Post
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    insane # of injuries?
    no that happens to all teams that part of the game.

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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    no that happens to all teams that part of the game.
    Yes, injuries happen that's now what he's saying.

    But we're talking about the number of serious injuries is high even for NFL standards.

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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Yes, injuries happen that's now what he's saying.

    But we're talking about the number of serious injuries is high even for NFL standards.
    A lot of Injuries happen to my Bears last yr i didnt get mad . You have to bear down and play with who you have. Luckly this year we have not been nearly as injured just part of the NFL.

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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    A lot of Injuries happen to my Bears last yr i didnt get mad . You have to bear down and play with who you have. Luckly this year we have not been nearly as injured just part of the NFL.
    You do realize that the Colts have had more injuries than any other team in the league this year right? And Powers just went out so that makes even more.

    Injuries happen. I understand. But injuries very rarely happen at this level, in terms of how many. It's not an excuse. It's reality. That's the whole reason why I'm not too upset this year. I don't expect them to be able to win with unsigned rookies, practice squad players, and players they cut at the very beginning of the season. It's not just like they're in uniform they're STARTING.

    I heard more *****ing last year from Bears fans when just Urlacher went down. ESPN pretty much gave them a pass right when it happened.

    Blair White, a starting WR, didn't even get a scholarship to play in college. Let alone was he drafted.

    Again, I understand injuries happen. We all know Bob Sanders. But at some point in time it goes from "normal" to "extreme." The Colts are in the extreme camp, and have been for a while now.

    Don't waste your time replying with the same message. I get it.

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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Since, I feel like we have had more injuries then any other team.

    Then again, half of our first stringers are not NFL caliber players, so downgrading for them was like downgrading from a car with 200,000,000,000,000 miles to a car with 201,000,000,000,000 miles

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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    Boombaby, I think you underestimate some of the talent of your top players. My argument is not lack of front-line talent (when healthy), it is the lack of talent for players 40-53+ and also the severe lack of talent on both lines, except for pass rushers.

    -Reggie Wayne was a 1st round pick and if anything slid some. Lots of teams wanted him.

    -Gonzolez was a 1st round draft pick, and maybe he was a little high since most sites gave him a 2nd round grade. Still he was a guy lots of teams wanted. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2007&genpos=WR

    -Collie was a 4th rounder, right in line with draft projections after an amazing college career. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2009&genpos=WR

    -Tamme was a 4th rounder, maybe a little high with his 5-6 round grade http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2008&genpos=TE

    -Blair White was undrafted, and that was somewhat surprising since many sites had him as high as round 3: http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2010&genpos=WR In fact, he was thought to be a "steal" and was a lot more or a known quantity than less-heralded undrafted guys like Woodhead and Green-Ellis: http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-in-the-draft/

    Donald "bust" Brown and Joesph Addai- 1st round picks that lots of other teams wanted too.

    Manning has talent to throw to and perhaps even to hand the ball off to (who would know? Seen any holes?). Everything else is lacking, especially linemen and depth
    The Colts haven't signed one big time WR for Manning. Even the Cheap Patriots went out and got Brady some players. Wayne is basically our Deon Branch.

    Gonzo went incredibly high that year I don't care what he is predicted at. Who was going to take Gonzo besides us? Sidney Rice went 2nd round that year, I remember vividly.

    You never know about draft picks, I'm more concern about them not trying to get him a very good WR. There have been MANY great WRs available and they didn't go after any. Now we are suffering dearly.

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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Manning calls the play so u cant blame jim for not running the football
    Have you seen the Colts run blocking the past three seasons?? (Or the blocking all together this season).

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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    I keep hearing that Peyton is surrounded by skill players that nobody wanted, castoffs appearing off the street.

    They seem to have invested a fair amount of draft picks in so-called castoffs.

    current active players only:
    WR#1: Wayne-1st round pick in 2001
    WR#2: Garcon-6th round pick
    WR#3: White-Undrafted free agent
    TE #1: Tamme-4th round pick
    TE#2: Eldridge- 5th round pick
    RB#1: Javarris James- Undrafted free agent
    RB#2: Donald Brown-1st round pick

    compare to a certain other team:

    WR#1: Welker-Undrafted free agent
    WR#2: Deion Branch-2nd round pick in 2002
    WR#3: Brandon Tate- 3rd round pick
    TE#1: Rob Gronkowski- 2nd round pick
    TE#2: Aaron Hernandez- 4th round pick
    RB#1: BJGE-Undrafted free agent
    RB#2: Danny Woodhead-Undrafted free agent

    To make the analysis quantifiable, I'll call an undrafted free agent an 8th round draft pick.

    Colts current skill position players average draft round: (1+6+8+4+5+8+1)/7 = 4.7
    Patriots current skill position players average draft round: (8+2+3+2+4+8+8)/7 = 5.0

    Now when you consider the players out but expected to return: Collie- 4th round pick would replace White, Joseph Addai- 1st round pick would replace James,

    Colts skill position players average draft round: (1+6+4+4+5+1+1)/7 = 3.1

    bottom line: If the current players suiting up are not good enough to perform, maybe the people to question are the people who drafted them.
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 12-08-2010 at 09:34 AM.
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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Our first, second, and third rounders since the SB win:

    Anthony Gonzalez
    Tony Ugoh
    Daymeion Hughes
    Mike Pollak
    Phillip Wheeler
    Donald Brown
    Fili Moala
    Jerraud Powers
    Jerry Hughes
    Pat Angerer
    Kevin Thomas
    Quinn Pitcock


    Aside from Powers, is there a quality pick in there? I haven't watched Angerer very closely.

    It doesn't really matter what the presiding philosophy is (invest in skill players or lineman, or whatever), picking that poorly in the top rounds will kill any team.

    I think I agree w/ what Bball's been calling for for a long time - Peyton's proven he can make do with a crappy offensive talent level (even if it's not incredible, it's enough for most teams to win - even with this sadsack O-line he's making do); we need to bring in some playmakers on D, and some depth.

    And honestly, a four-year stretch like that should lose any GM his job. It'll be disappointing if Polian is still here next year.
    Last edited by SoupIsGood; 12-08-2010 at 09:56 AM.
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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Angerer could be good, but IMO the Ugoh pick/trade was such a bed ****ting/panic induced mistake that Polian could be fired for that alone. Oh the Donald Brown pick was a joke too.

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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    I keep hearing that Peyton is surrounded by skill players that nobody wanted, castoffs appearing off the street.

    They seem to have invested a fair amount of draft picks in so-called castoffs.

    current active players only:
    WR#1: Wayne-1st round pick in 2001
    WR#2: Garcon-6th round pick
    WR#3: White-Undrafted free agent
    TE #1: Tamme-4th round pick
    TE#2: Eldridge- 5th round pick
    RB#1: Javarris James- Undrafted free agent
    RB#2: Donald Brown-1st round pick

    compare to a certain other team:

    WR#1: Welker-Undrafted free agent
    WR#2: Deion Branch-2nd round pick in 2002
    WR#3: Brandon Tate- 3rd round pick
    TE#1: Rob Gronkowski- 2nd round pick
    TE#2: Aaron Hernandez- 4th round pick
    RB#1: BJGE-Undrafted free agent
    RB#2: Danny Woodhead-Undrafted free agent

    To make the analysis quantifiable, I'll call an undrafted free agent an 8th round draft pick.

    Colts current skill position players average draft round: (1+6+8+4+5+8+1)/7 = 4.7
    Patriots current skill position players average draft round: (8+2+3+2+4+8+8)/7 = 5.0

    Now when you consider the players out but expected to return: Collie- 4th round pick would replace White, Joseph Addai- 1st round pick would replace James,

    Colts skill position players average draft round: (1+6+4+4+5+1+1)/7 = 3.1

    bottom line: If the current players suiting up are not good enough to perform, maybe the people to question are the people who drafted them.

    Solid points that are hard to argue with.

    I too don't think the skill players are the problem. It's the O-Line. I think the O-Line has been the problem. They've been so bad that it's in Manning's head to the point where it is causing him to make reckless decisions.

    I'm not too worried about Manning. It seems to me the problems are mental and I think he'll fix those. If his poor play looked like it were too to declining physical skills then I'd be a lot more worried about the future.

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    Default Re: Serious question: How come Jim Caldwell hasn't been criticized by the national media?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    You do realize that the Colts have had more injuries than any other team in the league this year right? And Powers just went out so that makes even more.

    Injuries happen. I understand. But injuries very rarely happen at this level, in terms of how many. It's not an excuse. It's reality. That's the whole reason why I'm not too upset this year. I don't expect them to be able to win with unsigned rookies, practice squad players, and players they cut at the very beginning of the season. It's not just like they're in uniform they're STARTING.

    I heard more *****ing last year from Bears fans when just Urlacher went down. ESPN pretty much gave them a pass right when it happened.

    Blair White, a starting WR, didn't even get a scholarship to play in college. Let alone was he drafted.

    Again, I understand injuries happen. We all know Bob Sanders. But at some point in time it goes from "normal" to "extreme." The Colts are in the extreme camp, and have been for a while now.

    Don't waste your time replying with the same message. I get it.

    I would argue that the injury situation of three years ago was worse.

    Tarik Glenn retired right before the season. He our pro bowl LT that Manning had played with his entire year.

    Harrison went down in late September and never returned. That's a guy Manning relied on his whole career.

    Freeney went down in the San Diego game and was out for the season.

    That season we compensated. This season we haven't been able to.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 12-08-2010 at 01:15 PM.

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