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Thread: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    Peyton leaving would not permanently decapitate this franchise. We have somewhat of a winning history now, and Irsay could probably net us a good GM to replace Polian, who in that case would absolutely have to go. The NFL is much easier to rebuild in than the NBA. But until that time, those Colts "fans" can bandwagon back over the Pacers where they were from 1994-2005.


    It might not permanently decapitate it but it would be absolutely devastating. If Manning leaves then we are automatically a bottom 5 or so team in the NFL. That's how poor this roster is. It would take years to be respectable again.

    Our winning history is 100% tied to Manning. We have no tradition here aside from the miracle 95 run.

    People know Peyton can't play forever, but they expect him to the leave the Colts when he can't play football anymore, not because he wants to play for another team. Manning playing somewhere else would be catastrophic for the franchise. Luckily for Irsay, he was handed that gift of a stadium when the popularity was at its peak.

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    Caldwell needs to go. I would think that's pretty obvious.

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  5. #178
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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    I agree that Caldwell needs to go. His sideline demeanor reminds me of the guy the Cowboys just let go- Wade Phillips. His win-loss record is only good because he's been running of Peyton's fumes- and now even Peyton is struggling.

    Peyton could leave after this year, but it would be nothing like Lebron leaving Cleveland. First, Peyton never promised us a championship, second, Peyton actually won us a championship, and third, Polian has ****ed this team up beyond recognition in the last couple of years making it perfectly justifiable for Peyton to leave lest he wants to end his career early by getting hit so much. We only made the Super Bowl last year because Peyton was incredible and we had an incredibly easy run to the big game.

    Peyton leaving would not permanently decapitate this franchise. We have somewhat of a winning history now, and Irsay could probably net us a good GM to replace Polian, who in that case would absolutely have to go. The NFL is much easier to rebuild in than the NBA. But until that time, those Colts "fans" can bandwagon back over the Pacers where they were from 1994-2005.
    I think Manning leaving would make ChicagoJ feel like Nostradamus x 10.

    This team has relied on Manning to the point of over-reliance. I always assumed towards the end of Manning's career the team would retool in such a way that they'd field a winning defense with an offense that benefitted more from Manning's smarts than his arm. And one that had a running game that didn't rely on trickery to exist. Manning would give us leadership.
    AND I assumed the team would be building toward Manning retirement as that time approached.

    IOW... I was banking on a few more years of good football, more playoffs, a potential SB win again.... etc... and a plan for a transitioned handoff to the post-Manning era. So I always said predicting Lucas would become a ghost town was premature.

    But you take Manning away from this team now and all bets are off at how the fans would react. I doubt fans respect Caldwell or in other coaches that much. Everyone believes they are puppets to either Peyton or Polian. There's little in the way of players that have much star power. Sure, there's Freeney and Sanders but Sanders barely plays and Freeney is marginalized if the other team isn't pass happy.

    I'm still sticking to my prediction that Manning is going to demand changes more than dollars and that's why the contract negotiations are on hold. I'm not sure WHAT changes he'll demand. It's easy to say 'Polian gone'... From the fan's perspective it's easy to put Caldwell in the crosshairs too but I have a tough time believing Caldwell isn't coach with Manning's blessing in the first place. Of course, a year or two of Caldwell might've shown Manning something he didn't like.

    So I didn't think he'd leave simply because I think the team will do whatever he wants. But I could be wrong. In fact, maybe he'd rather the team fix it's own mess and wants no part of second-guessing ownership and management and would rather just move on to somewhere that has built tougher teams that he thinks a QB of his ability to could take them to the next level.

    Whatever the case I wouldn't be surprised to see the decision to give up the perfect season something that will weigh heavily in all of this. That was a mistake then and it looks like it might've been more of a mistake than we ever really realized.
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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    What a game. Another loss where I don't even know how the Colts were in it in the end.

    I don't see Peyton as the type that would leave the team. However I couldn't blame him if he did.

    Hopefully he stays and I honestly hope he tells Isray changes must be made like Polian out and/or Caldwell and co. out. I don't have much faith in Caldwell but if this team didn't have so many freaking holes on the team I think he would do alright.

    Football is not like basketball. You cannot rely on one player like the Colts do with Manning. He has played pretty bad lately but if other parts of the team were up to par I don't believe Manning throws all those INTs.

    Look normally I think that athletes need to shut up and play and while Peyton isn't perfect he is a once in a lifetime player. You have to take advantage of that when he is your QB. Bill Polian hasn't done that.

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    The main difference between this year and years past is that in years past, Manning always found a way to pull a win out of his a**. If yesterday's game was last year then Manning finds a way to pull that game out.

    The main weaknesses this year (no run game, can't stop the run) are weaknesses that have been around quite some time. Freaking Tashard Choice had 14 CARRIES THE ENTIRE SEASON going into yesterday's game, yet he runs all over us like he's Barry Sanders. Seriously, what does Bill Polian get paid to do exactly? Any other GM would have been fired a long time ago if such glaring weaknesses were never fixed. It's embarrassing really. Whether it's Ron Meeks or Larry Coyer, whether it's Tony Dungy or Jim Caldwell...we routinely get run over. The constant through all of those years is Polian, thus it falls on his shoulders.

    When you add Manning not playing well to the problems that have always been there, you have a pretty lousy football team. Manning's bad play is a combination of a bad offensive line and him just making poor decisions. Regardless, him not playing well means our chances for the postseason are looking pretty dim right now.

    And why did we waste a first round pick on a DT when we have Freeney and Mathis? Hughes can't even get on the field. Seems like that precious first round pick could have been used on a more immediate need (cough O-Line, cough cough). I don't care as much about the years down the road when Freeney and Mathis aren't going to be around as much as I do immediate problems that need to be fixed during Manning's remaining good years.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 12-06-2010 at 07:41 AM.

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam1987 View Post
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    If Manning leaves then we are automatically a bottom 5 or so team in the NFL. That's how poor this roster is.
    The guy wants (perhaps) 20 million a year for 5 years. How bad will the team roster stay if he gets it? At this point I think the Colts might be in a Jeter situation where they are about to bid against themselves and overpay for sentimental reasons. i don't know- maybe he is hurt, or maybe the end is near. I hear people blaming the coach, but Vince Lombardi isn't going to coach you to many (any?) wins with his QB throwing 4 INTs including 2 returned for TDs.
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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    They can change GM & coaching staff all they want, but the first thing I'd like to see done is dumping the cover two. Of course, it will take a while to restructure personnel to play in another scheme. However, our overall defensive roster basically sucks, so what better time than now to increase the suffering while we transition.

    We've played poor football in every dimension the last couple weeks - including QB. Yet I'm most fed up with the sham of continuously trying to build a defense on two ends and a bunch of spare parts. I'm just tired of any justification for more cover 2 and this D roster.

    Manning? Well, he may be hurt, being asked to do too much, and playing behind a swiss cheese O-line, but I agree with Bball. Several of these picks were complete forces to bracketed receivers. The kind of ball that should never be thrown.

    A good decision there is take a sack or throw it away. He's lost all confidence in his blocking - rightfully so - and he's to the point where he's scared to get hit. Lots of flinching and "gotta get rid of this hot potato" body language in the pocket.

    Just a sad state of affairs really. Playoffs - win out is the only chance and could still require help. I don't see how they can muster that up without serious improvement in all three phases.
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  11. #183

    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    I don't think cover-2 is the problem. Many teams with good defenses use cover-2. The last time the D-line had legit defensive tackles the defense was the best we've ever seen it. Can you imagine Mathis and Freeney next to a dominant DT? QBs would have absolutely no room to breathe. I also can't stand how far off the corners play. Pressure the WR's and trust your safeties.

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    The guy wants (perhaps) 20 million a year for 5 years. How bad will the team roster stay if he gets it? At this point I think the Colts might be in a Jeter situation where they are about to bid against themselves and overpay for sentimental reasons. i don't know- maybe he is hurt, or maybe the end is near. I hear people blaming the coach, but Vince Lombardi isn't going to coach you to many (any?) wins with his QB throwing 4 INTs including 2 returned for TDs.
    To be fair, before this season many were saying that Brady was done as well, or at least nearing his expiration date.

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    Quote Originally Posted by righteouscool View Post
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    I don't think cover-2 is the problem. Many teams with good defenses use cover-2. The last time the D-line had legit defensive tackles the defense was the best we've ever seen it. Can you imagine Mathis and Freeney next to a dominant DT? QBs would have absolutely no room to breathe. I also can't stand how far off the corners play. Pressure the WR's and trust your safeties.
    The bears but i hate the cover 2 gives up to many big plays

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    The bears but i hate the cover 2 gives up to many big plays
    No. The Cover-2 does the opposite of that. It gives up small and medium plays to avoid giving up the big play.

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    The bears but i hate the cover 2 gives up to many big plays
    The is the exact opposite of the what cover-2 is intended to do.

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    Quote Originally Posted by righteouscool View Post
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    I think that's probably for the better. Polian needs to learn how to draft again and the coaching has been poor. I'd rather have no playoffs a vastly improved line next year than playoffs and a first round exit to cover for Polian again. He's been dreadful lately.
    i agree. it will suck not making the playoffs however, perhaps this will light a fire that can get some changes that must be made.

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    Quote Originally Posted by righteouscool View Post
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    The is the exact opposite of the what cover-2 is intended to do.
    *typo sorry i meant to say long drives my bad. The bears rely on the big play way to much on defense we play a bend not break defense. sry for the brain collaspse

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    The bears but i hate the cover 2 gives up to many long drives
    fixed

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    The Colts are having a "down" year, but I would kill for the Redskins to have as bad of a year as the Colts are having now.

    Also, I am calling it now on DECEMBER 6, 2010. P. Manning wil not go anywhere. I bet a rumor comes out from his agent saying he is negotiating with Daniel Snyder, and Peyton gets a contract for 25-30 million a year.

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    if worse comes to worse the colts can frashise tag #18 for 25 million
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 12-06-2010 at 05:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    *typo sorry i meant to say long drives my bad. The bears rely on the big play way to much on defense we play a bend not break defense. sry for the brain collaspse
    Yeah, I definitely hate that aspect of the cover 2.

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    I know one thing, the Colts took Jerry Hughes who has barely sniffed the field. They could have had Roger Saffold, a guy who played down the road at IU and was a VERY highly regarded LT and was taken two picks later. He's given up a grand total of TWO frickin sacks this year playing on a shoddy offensive line while protecting a rookie QB. I'm not usually a fan of the whole hindsght is 20/20 game, but I have a feeling that Saffold is going to be a Tarik Glenn type of LT, a guy who can anchor your line with solid play and protect your QB for a decade.

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Funny how the Colts and Pacers can never seem to be good at the same time. It's like a cosmic balance or something.


    I see you forgot 2003-2004 season both teams ended up in the conference championship.

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    The Colts are having a "down" year, but I would kill for the Redskins to have as bad of a year as the Colts are having now.

    Also, I am calling it now on DECEMBER 6, 2010. P. Manning wil not go anywhere. I bet a rumor comes out from his agent saying he is negotiating with Daniel Snyder, and Peyton gets a contract for 25-30 million a year.
    Peyton would never want to face his brother twice a year.

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    Peyton would never want to face his brother twice a year.
    He wont have to.

    All he will have to say is he is "talking" to the Redskins. Leverage, I seriously doubt he leaves Indy.

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    The Colts are having a "down" year, but I would kill for the Redskins to have as bad of a year as the Colts are having now.

    Also, I am calling it now on DECEMBER 6, 2010. P. Manning wil not go anywhere. I bet a rumor comes out from his agent saying he is negotiating with Daniel Snyder, and Peyton gets a contract for 25-30 million a year.
    Uhhh... the Redskins are an even worse team than the Colts and just signed Donovan Mcnabb to a multi-year extension.

    Peyton will never play for the Redskins.

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    I don't know what teams will have $20-$25 million in cap space in the 2011 offseason but I am sure those that do are pretty bad and have several holes that need to be filled.

    All of the good teams have entrenched, established starting QBs.

    The most likely outcome is that Manning re-signs with the condition that a MAJOR effort is made to upgrade the running game.

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    Default Re: Dallas at Indianapolis - Game Thread - 12/5/10

    Quote Originally Posted by hoosierguy View Post
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    Uhhh... the Redskins are an even worse team than the Colts and just signed Donovan Mcnabb to a multi-year extension.

    Peyton will never play for the Redskins.
    What part of this did you miss?

    All he will have to say is he is "talking" to the Redskins. Leverage, I seriously doubt he leaves Indy.
    Also, the McNabb contract basically has a team option each year. I bet he is gone is a year or two.

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