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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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ESPN: Rick Reilley: Sunday Bloody Sunday

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  • ESPN: Rick Reilley: Sunday Bloody Sunday

    I have been waiting for an article like this to be written

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=5867055

    You have everything you need to take your kid to an NFL game this Sunday? Program?

    Binoculars? Nunchucks?


    Actually, if I were you, I wouldn't take my kid. I'd take Manny Pacquiao. NFL stadiums are rougher than sandpaper thongs lately.

    These days, NFL fans make NHL fans look like Miss Manners. They're often buy-a-vowel drunk, spewing cuss words and looking to fight. And the men are sometimes worse.

    This year alone:

    A plastered Browns fan tackled an 8-year-old kid in a New York Jets jersey, cutting the boy's ankle.

    A man was stabbed and another bruised before a game at Candlestick in San Francisco. Police were looking for a fan in a 49ers jersey.

    A man at Soldier Field in Chicago fell to his death from 20 feet up on Sunday.

    Having fun, kids?

    I wouldn't take anybody not built like a side-by-side freezer to an NFL game now. With insane popularity comes inane people, and we're not just talking about Pittsburgh's James Harrison. All the NFL is missing is crowds chanting, "Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!"

    Don't go. Just sit your kid in front of your HD screen with a bowl of Cheetos and the remote. Guaranteed, your HD screen won't do the following (warning, these links get gross and the language is NOT for kids):

    (A) Follow her around blowing a vuvuzela in her ear.
    (B) Throw punches at her so she misses a touchdown.
    (C) Make just walking away a terrifying experience.
    Still, if you INSIST on taking any child who isn't at least a brown belt, here are some survival tips:
    The only thing I did not agree with is him saying closing parking lots of cutting beer sales off would fix this problem. I would have no problem with them stopping the sale of beeer at halftime, however I do not think there is much you can do about the pre game problems. If people want to drink, they will just drink before the game, or do like college kids and get all there drinking in in 30 minutes before kickoff.

    I do agree this is a problem, and one that the NFL is "working on" but still has a lot of work left to do.

  • #2
    Re: ESPN: Rick Reilley: Sunday Bloody Sunday

    How much of this is really a growing problem and how much is just a growing sensitivity to the issue?

    Hasn't football always been an adult spectator sport more than a family outing?

    Of course spectators should be safe at the game but how dangerous is it really? And if you don't want your kids seeing and hearing certain adult things then maybe an NFL football stadium isn't exactly where they should be.

    Do you take your kids to Mardis Gras?

    Perhaps a large portion of the appeal IS the adult angle here. Water it down and try and turn it into a family friendly environment and you might end up with a less desirable product overall.

    So yeah, continue to do what's necessary to keep the events safe for spectators... particularly if there's a growing problem there and not just over-exposure of a few exceptions. But is it possible to have a few adult pasttimes in this world without making everything kid-friendly and thinking of the children?

    That's my curmudgeon view of the day...
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: ESPN: Rick Reilley: Sunday Bloody Sunday

      Originally posted by Bball View Post
      How much of this is really a growing problem and how much is just a growing sensitivity to the issue?

      Hasn't football always been an adult spectator sport more than a family outing?

      Of course spectators should be safe at the game but how dangerous is it really? And if you don't want your kids seeing and hearing certain adult things then maybe an NFL football stadium isn't exactly where they should be.

      Do you take your kids to Mardis Gras?

      Perhaps a large portion of the appeal IS the adult angle here. Water it down and try and turn it into a family friendly environment and you might end up with a less desirable product overall.

      So yeah, continue to do what's necessary to keep the events safe for spectators... particularly if there's a growing problem there and not just over-exposure of a few exceptions. But is it possible to have a few adult pasttimes in this world without making everything kid-friendly and thinking of the children?

      That's my curmudgeon view of the day...
      You have been to basketball games, no? Those are adult events and yet you can bring the whole family.....

      Here is what I said on a Redskins board:

      Last year a guy had his 7 year old daughter when we played Dallas (I was in the dream seats, bad overall experience but that is another thread) but he spent the whole game calling our former kicker a "*****, *****, ****, *******, and punk *** mother ****" By the third quarter security and a usher told him to STFU, and he replied with "My daughter hears this at home so it is no big deal"

      How to fix it? I really do not know. I will say one thing. Dan Snyder threw one hell of a party for the Dallas game this year. He opened up the parking lots at noon for a 8:15PM game. It would really suck to see drunk jackasses mess that up for those of us who just want to go to a game and drink responsibly and not be total jackasses.

      You know, I was loud as hell for the cowboys game, boo'd Allas as much as I could, and still had a civil conversation with the Dallas fans next to me and we had good natured ribbing going on. Now the guy who crapped his pants next to me helped break the ice and he was a easy puching bag, but I really do not think alcohol is the main problem nor will it be the "only" solution. The reality is people can get trashed in 30 minutes if they want to.

      If you are around me at a Cowboys game, I am nuts. I have three rules for the Dallas game: Do not sit down, Do not make noise when we are on offense, and boo the **** out of Dallas. Funny, I am able to do all that and still remain civil.

      I wish I knew the answer, but the fan in me says go to a zero tolerance policy. You get so **** faced you can not stnad up and want to fight. Fine, you are not allowed to return to the stadium for 1 year. Second offense, 5 years. I do not know how to implenent a system like that....not sure it would even work.

      There has to be a better way to do things, and frankly while I do think this issue is a bit overblown (I have been to plenty of games that I enjoyed and there were no fights aound me) it is one that concerns me, especially if I ever have kids that want to attend a game

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: ESPN: Rick Reilley: Sunday Bloody Sunday

        Football reaps what it sews when it comes to the fan experience.


        Comment


        • #5
          Re: ESPN: Rick Reilley: Sunday Bloody Sunday

          Originally posted by Bball View Post
          How much of this is really a growing problem and how much is just a growing sensitivity to the issue?

          Hasn't football always been an adult spectator sport more than a family outing?

          Of course spectators should be safe at the game but how dangerous is it really? And if you don't want your kids seeing and hearing certain adult things then maybe an NFL football stadium isn't exactly where they should be.

          Do you take your kids to Mardis Gras?

          Perhaps a large portion of the appeal IS the adult angle here. Water it down and try and turn it into a family friendly environment and you might end up with a less desirable product overall.

          So yeah, continue to do what's necessary to keep the events safe for spectators... particularly if there's a growing problem there and not just over-exposure of a few exceptions. But is it possible to have a few adult pasttimes in this world without making everything kid-friendly and thinking of the children?

          That's my curmudgeon view of the day...
          An interesting quote from a blog about the same topic

          I say booze is not a requirement at an NFL game to have fun. Kids and minors aren't allowed into pubs or bars so why are we allowing adults to get loser pissed and ruin the fun in an all ages inviornment and treat the place like its a bar. I like to drink and I have always drank at games but realisticly I would not be upset if they banned booze. I get enough adreneline from the game and dont think I would feel like I was missing out. Even if I was dead sober I would have a hard time not KO'ing some drunkin loser falling all over people and spilling his beer everywhere.

          Comment

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