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Thread: A question for the OB haters

  1. #26

    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    We can allow for the players to adjust and grow with the team, overlooking their past mistakes. But with the coaches they get no such grace?

    I think the Heat game was a win all on JOB and so did NBATV. Having the players play under the pick n roll was a good call and a change of pace for JOB.

    I think Posey's minutes will get slightly less as Foster and Hans get more comfortable.
    Sure they do, but we are talking about two freakin games compared to all the frustration over last season. I need to see ALOT more winning basketball in order to become pro JO'B...

  2. #27
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    I have few complaints about JOb. Sure, he is show-casing TJ and Dun. But I can live with it compared to last year.

    While you will hear no screams from me, I know in my heart that AJ Price is already a better PG than TJ. Same with Rush vs Dun. Same with the argument that Troy should not have played so many minutes last year. It's a waste of time making the argument. It will eventually just need to be proven because some cannot see the obvious.....just like our rebound numbers this year without big Troy yanking them down.

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  4. #28
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    no Sherlock it is common sense that u want Lebron and Dwade shooting jump shoots not driving to the bucket. Almost every team goes under the PnR vs them. Thats like saying we are great for going under the PnR with Rondo. JOB still has hibbert taking 20fters which is retarted he is 7"2 not 6"2. I give the defenseive credit to Danny. If u see ur best player playing defense and giving 100% every play normaly u will follow the leader. Good job Danny for making sure u give an effort on defense.

    Listen kid. I appreciate your enthusiasm and Pacer passion. But coming hard on posters like this is wearing thin on me. I would gladly appreciate an off-handed:

    "While saying that going under the pnr is thought to be a smart move, in reality it is a common move."

    And Hibbert taking a couple of 20 footers is not bad. Lopez does it and I think that Hibbert can handle that.

    The fact of the matter is that all of you JOB haters want to hate on JOB whether the team does well or not. Make no difference that the defense is also good because of the adjustments from JOB outside of the PnR.

    But I regress. My post was not elaborate enough for you, I am sorry to insult you with such a bland outburst of ignorance.

  5. #29
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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    JOB needs to go after this year. The players development and the loss of Murphy while adding DC are the main reasons for the early success. Sure JOB has prolly made some better coaching decisions this year but I still dont want him for the long haul. He still doesnt use some of our best players properly in our offensive sets. We should run a lot more pick and roll with DC and Hibbert. Not to mention the fact that we still take way too many jumpshots. The only difference is that this year when we go through cold stretches our defense can still keep us in the game. I don't think that JOB is the reason for the defensive imporovements. He was here for 2 years before and we SUCKED. This year his man crush was dealt and he was forced to play a guy at PF who actually plays strong and smart D. The past 2 years we would get killed on D because of Murphy. JOB never figured out that playing Troy close to 40 mins a game was a huge mistake.

  6. #30
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    You guys are saying the same thing people were saying last year when this team started 5-3, weirdly that was also when Murphy was out. Seriously am I the only one with any kind of long term memory here. It wasn't that long ago that you guys were panicking because this team was playing like ****, now because this team has beaten some bad teams they are suddenly it is because of JOB. Even though we saw this team play very much like this team whenever Murphy was not playing or McRoberts played more than 5 minutes.

    they didn't play like this last year

    there is a lot more going on with this team besides just not having Murphy
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 11-24-2010 at 09:25 AM.

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  8. #31
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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    I think we would be playing a little worse if Murph were still here. Not particularly by his fault but because Roy would have been in foul trouble coming over to try to cover Murph's man after he get blown up. I like Murph a lot, but not fitting in with what we have going.

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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    You see it is more than going under the pick and roll. Wade/LeBron is fast enough to run around the under, so you need to pack the paint. Having McBob, Posey, and Solo flash just above the rim with players like Rush/Danny or Ford/Collison straddling the paint pushes the ball to be kicked out to the opposite wing.

    But the Rush/Danny closed out well causing the ball to go to the corner. James Jones being a non-factor hurt the Heat more than we realize, and indicates how much they will get better with Miller back.

    The surprise is that JOBs packing the paint happened when Wade or Lebron entered the key. Our team flashed to their point mildly slower luring the pentrator into a help side vortex of charges and strips.

    Kudos to the players for executing this plan.

  10. #33
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    they didn't play like this last year

    there is a lot more going on with this team besides just noy having Murphy
    I certainly agree with this. Health was a big factor last year. Improved PG play and Roy are big factors this year. But a different PF is certainly a huge one.

    Consider how a different type of PF changes the dynamic of the team. It helps Hibbert defend the rim and avoid fouls. It helps interior defense, obviously...which in turn helps perimeter defense as our guards know they have someone behind them and can take more risks pressing their man. When defense improves this much, defensive rebounds naturally follow because the other team is missing. Combine this with better offensive rebounds on the other side because your PF is in the paint fighting for boards rather than the perimeter, it should be no surprise that our rebounding numbers improved.

    So, a PF who can protect the rim creates a snowball effect because it helps several areas all at once.

  11. #34
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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I certainly agree with this. Health was a big factor last year. Improved PG play and Roy are big factors this year. But a different PF is certainly a huge one.

    Consider how a different type of PF changes the dynamic of the team. It helps Hibbert defend the rim and avoid fouls. It helps interior defense, obviously...which in turn helps perimeter defense as our guards know they have someone behind them and can take more risks pressing their man. When defense improves this much, defensive rebounds naturally follow because the other team is missing. Combine this with better offensive rebounds on the other side because your PF is in the paint fighting for boards rather than the perimeter, it should be no surprise that our rebounding numbers improved.

    So, a PF who can protect the rim creates a snowball effect because it helps several areas all at once.

    JOB playing Murphy at center lost some games too.

  12. #35
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    they didn't play like this last year

    there is a lot more going on with this team besides just noy having Murphy
    You know... I was going to 'thank' you for this post and then I thought about it...

    Being that basketball is a team game I wonder how many things that are happening right now ARE because Murphy is gone? Obviously, DC at the point has a direct connection to Murphy being gone. How much is Hibbert helped by having McRoberts playing alongside him instead of Murphy? How much has our offense changed not having Murphy taking large slices of time as a 'stretch 4'?

    How much of Danny's renewed interest in defense is contagious and doesn't have cold water thrown on it by Murphy's poor defense?

    How much does not having the Murphy security blanket affect not only O'Brien's decisions but the team's mindset on the court?

    But I still think the Pacers need to probe inside more. There's still a little too much settling for jump shots for my tastes. But the defense has been so much better it makes up for it. And I do like seeing the bigs setting screens for the shooters instead of seeing a 'stretch 4' taking a quick 3.

    I'm still confused about why we suit Foster up and not play him instead of just suiting Price up and splitting some backup duties with Ford.
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  13. #36
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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    I've been a J'Ob detractor in the past, due to his decisions *at that time*. I don't dislike a person permanently; if they change their ways and improve, I'm all for that, and I honestly feel like he's made big strides this year as a coach. I still want to see consistency from this team. We've had a good stretch here, but we've had some off-stretches also... it remains to be seen if people are still in love with the new J'Ob a month from now. If they're still rocking out, though --- great. This is why we ***** and moan --- to stimulate either improvement or departure.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  14. #37

    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    I think that the Pacers are better for a number of reasons.

    Improved play of Roy Hibbert and Brandon Rush.

    Better point guard rotation. Darren/TJ is better then TJ/Watson.

    Danny Granger. He has been a different player so far this year. He is really focused on defense and just playing a more complete game this year. Some will say this could be from his experience with Team USA. While that may be part of it I also think that Jim has challenged Danny. Props to Jim.

    Tyler being healthy helps too. He brings a lot of positives to this team.

    Not having Troy Murphy on the team makes it better IMO.

    I have to give Jim a lot of credit. Even in the losses we have seen some positives.

    Truth be told this team is going to be inconsistent though. A lot of this has to do with the youth as opposed to the coaching.

    With all that said deep down I still am hoping for a new coach at the end of the year. I think it's time and for a number of reasons and to make it short and sweet I don't believe in Jim's philosophy 100% and believe that the Pacers need a different coach to get them to the next level.

    I criticize Coach O'Brien but I must give credit where credit is due. This team has shown some improvement this year. While not all the credit goes to Coach O'Brien some of it does.

  15. #38

    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    Meh, he's been better this season, but I think the better is almost completely because of not having Murphy.

    He still makes poor adjustments, and still falls back on his vet security blanket.

    I'm caught with the Price/Ford thing..because on the one hand, I want to give him the benifit of the doubt, and assume it's about showcasing Ford..but there's a part of me that doubts it.

    If JOB is back next season, then once again, we'll have a young guy riding the pine who really shouldn't be riding the pine..my guess is it'll be Paul George or Tyler next season.

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  17. #39
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    Say O'Brien was a new coach and this was his first season. Would anyone be unhappy with him?

    Obviously, that's not how it is and we have three years of history to look back on, but I really like the way the team has responded to him this year. The motion on offense has been really nice, and the personnel can finally adhere to his defensive philosophy. I was on the bus early last season about wanting this guy fired, mainly because the team looked like they had completely given up on him. As of right now, I am content with him. I like that he has tinkered with his schemes (finally) to fit the personnel. If we finish with a .500 record and make the playoffs, I wouldn't throw a fit if he is retained.

  18. #40
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    they didn't play like this last year

    there is a lot more going on with this team besides just noy having Murphy
    Indeed, however I do believe that it is the single biggest thing going on with this team this season.

    I can take you back to the Utah game at the end of last year and tell you that we saw what we could be. Give Roy & Danny an athletic player at the four who will defend and rebound and score when he can and you will see two different players & that is what is going on right now.


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  19. #41
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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    This does not seem like a good idea for a thread.
    I have been a hardcore hater hater and even I disagree with this thread. The hate has been gone since Monday, why pick a fight.

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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    That he still sucks and I'll be happy when he leaves.
    To bad you have to make a point to tell us 10 times a day (thanking useless post's counts). I won't bother arguing with you since I know you don't like actually defending your position, but you are downright wrong. If you choose to defend your stance that "he sucks" I will gladly wipe the floor with your postition
    Last edited by spazzxb; 11-24-2010 at 03:10 AM.

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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Say O'Brien was a new coach and this was his first season. Would anyone be unhappy with him?
    There are better ways to tell how good a coach is than just the win-lose record. Does anyone think Caldwell is as good as Dungy or one of the best coaches in football because he has a great team, no. They see the bad decisions, the degrading of discipline, and all the mistakes he as a coach makes. Yet his team still wins because his team has talent and play as a team. At certain point you have to separate the talent from the coach and ask, is this team playing well because the coach is getting them to overachieve or is this team playing well because of the talent this team has and could they play better under a better coach? When I get the chance to watch this team what I see is a poorly coached team that gets by on talent.

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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    It happens when the GM takes away the worst defensive player on the team.

    JOB is still an average coach and just like any player he should be upgraded if the opportunity presents itslef.
    Average would be considered high praise compared to what the haters were saying. Last week they were basicly saying Obrien Maliciously chooses the oppisite of the right decision. They treated him like he was mentally challenged, they would just make up stupid moves and say it was his dream.

    I had to choose this avatar from frustration from simply trying to point out there is logic in his choices. Calling him average is not what this thread is aimed at.

  23. #45
    Over the pond ballism's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    He has made a number of mind boggling decisions over the years. Some substitution patters, also some end of game plays make you /facepalm. However when you listen to him explain his decisions, or read his interviews, you often go away thinking that he's smarter than the first impression.

    In the end I think sounding smart is as important - or maybe even more important - for a coach in the NBA as anything else. You need your players to trust you. And players do seem to respond to him and respect him. So that seems to be JOB's strength.

    However, I think it partially comes from Larry Bird being someone who's extremely patient with coaches and sticks with them as long as he can. JOB has been in a better position than most NBA coaches. I think we can even afford to have someone who's known to 'lose' his players - like Scott Skiles for example - because we have management that's known to support their coaches through losing periods. So for all real and imagined JOB's strengthes, I'd love to have a better 'teacher' and tactician.

  24. #46
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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    Why should I give him praises when he's starting to do the things we've been *****ing and screaming for him to do for the past 3 years now?

    Maybe if he would have done the most logical sense things to begin with, we wouldn't be considered "haters." But it is what it is.

    -Get a PG that actually attacks the lane. Check
    -Actually have players play defense. Check
    -Try and establish Roy in the low block. Check
    -Actually understand that your 4 doesn't need to be a "stretch." Check.


    And is there a site that tracks average time of possession before a shot? I would guess the Pacers would have the ball 4-5secs more, on average, which is a tremendous change from last season considering how many fastbreaks they get.

    A three with 9secs on the shot clock is a big difference than taking one with 14.


    And I thought DC2 played a hell of a lot better last night, than he has been. I thought he looked extremely good attacking the middle and kicking out, once he established that he was going to score if he got inside. He put up points quickly in the first quarter, and then cooled off, because he turned into a passer instead of a scorer. Makes all the difference in the world, that inside-out game.

    But hey, what do I know? I'm just a plain ol hater........

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  26. #47
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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    Quote Originally Posted by ballism View Post
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    He has made a number of mind boggling decisions over the years. Some substitution patters, also some end of game plays make you /facepalm. However when you listen to him explain his decisions, or read his interviews, you often go away thinking that he's smarter than the first impression.
    When I listen to Charles Manson talk, I always come away thinking he's pretty smart too. Crazy as all can be, but smart none-the-less.

    Anyone can rationalize their decisions. But most usually don't try and fit a square peg into a round hole every single day, and continually expect it to fit.


    I understand the philosophy behind having a player like Murphy as your 4, but you have to have the right personel around him. The Pacers didn't, and that's what we saw. There's a reason why Utah can get away with it, and the Pacers couldn't.

  27. #48
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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    When I listen to Charles Manson talk, I always come away thinking he's pretty smart too. Crazy as all can be, but smart none-the-less.

    Anyone can rationalize their decisions. But most usually don't try and fit a square peg into a round hole every single day, and continually expect it to fit.


    I understand the philosophy behind having a player like Murphy as your 4, but you have to have the right personel around him. The Pacers didn't, and that's what we saw. There's a reason why Utah can get away with it, and the Pacers couldn't.
    Personally, I don't care if you play 5 wings who don't care about defense, like Donnie Nelson. If it works, it works. Sometimes it works because it makes sense from basketball point of view, and sometimes it works simply because players buy into what coach says and play their butts off.
    I don't mind a poor decision maker, if he compensates for it by being a genius motivator.

    I always thought JOB might be a below average decision maker. But pretty good at motivating players, getting them to buy into the system, judging by his interviews. The team did look ok sporadically.
    But judging by that article about JOB in that other current topic on this forum, the players actually had trouble buying into what JOB says last year.... so now I don't know anymore, is he is above average at anything?

  28. #49

    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    Like most NBA coaches, O'Brien coaches the players he has on the roster.

    I'm sure he understands the 4 doesn't need to be a "stretch" - he ran with Toine out of Boston, he used Dalembert, Thomas, Webber and Jackson as his bigs in Philly. He used PGs who attacked the lane in the past too. And had teams playing the low post a lot.

    But you can't do omelettes without eggs. Hibbert used to struggle to stay on the court for more than half a quarter in his rookie season, with fouls and conditioning issue... how can you build your offense around his low post game, which is still a work in progress?

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    Default Re: A question for the OB haters

    And Don Nelson get's you GSW..... Sorry, but if that were the Pacers, you'd think that I was actually a JOb fan.

    Just because there is an alternative, doesn't mean that it's the correct way to do things.

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