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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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A question for the OB haters

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  • #76
    Re: A question for the OB haters

    Originally posted by Eleazar View Post
    There are better ways to tell how good a coach is than just the win-lose record. Does anyone think Caldwell is as good as Dungy or one of the best coaches in football because he has a great team, no. They see the bad decisions, the degrading of discipline, and all the mistakes he as a coach makes. Yet his team still wins because his team has talent and play as a team. At certain point you have to separate the talent from the coach and ask, is this team playing well because the coach is getting them to overachieve or is this team playing well because of the talent this team has and could they play better under a better coach? When I get the chance to watch this team what I see is a poorly coached team that gets by on talent.
    I didn't say a single word about the win-loss record, not sure where you got that from out of my post.

    You watch this team and see a poorly coached team that gets by with it's superior talent? Alright man, whatever. We are going to have to disagree and leave it at that.

    Comment


    • #77
      Re: A question for the OB haters

      Originally posted by maragin View Post
      The "open your eyes" comment is unnecessary.

      I'm not cherry picking arguments. Quite the opposite. I'm looking at Jim's entire body of work. The team has played reasonably well through 13 games. The team has not been good enough in the previous 246 games. To say that is due to Jim O'Brien alone would be incorrect. To completely discount his role would also be foolish.

      There's not enough evidence, for me, to overturn the years of data we have. This season will be a fine test of what he can accomplish.

      To another point, I'm not knocking Pacers optimism. I think we as fans have a lot to be excited about, though some of us are a bit more cautious with said optimism. Personally, I take inventory of the team at the 20 game mark, and then at the All-Star break.

      Now if we win against the Lakers Sunday...
      I also prefaced that by saying if you honestly believe the optimism stems from only a 2 game evaluation. The comment had to do with the respect you are giving to the views of people who are optimistic and the fact that there was reason to be optimistic before those games even happened. "Open your eyes" conveyed exactly what I wanted to convey.

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: A question for the OB haters

        Is it fair to blame Jim for the losses, but not give him credit for the wins. I don't blame the coach for losses or give him credit for the wins, but many of you tend to blame Jim for the losses. (disclaimer: I know each game is different, just talking in general terms)

        I think a coaches value is way overrated for what they do during the games, and way underrated for what they do all other times.

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: A question for the OB haters

          Originally posted by ballism View Post
          Allright. I don't see this going anywhere of value. I don't really want to spend so much time discussing difference between 'probably' and 'certainly' in a sentence of little importance to the thread.

          English is not my first languague, not even second, so sometimes I use a word that isn't necessary to make my point. As long as people understand my main point, I'm cool. And in that case the post wasn't about what forums NBA coaches read. Lets just leave it at that.
          Ballism, I wasn't trying to pick on you with my initial response. Just tried to use it as an opportunity to point out that fans often lose sight (in their frustrations) of how much knowledge and experience NBA coaches do have and how silly we sometimes are when we presume to know more. It doesn't mean coaches always push the right button, but I prefer trying to understand the context for their decisions and what other variables are contributing to the whole.

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: A question for the OB haters

            Originally posted by Part Timer View Post
            Ballism, I wasn't trying to pick on you with my initial response. Just tried to use it as an opportunity to point out that fans often lose sight (in their frustrations) of how much knowledge and experience NBA coaches do have and how silly we sometimes are when we presume to know more. It doesn't mean coaches always push the right button, but I prefer trying to understand the context for their decisions and what other variables are contributing to the whole.
            Fair enough.
            It was a bit suspicious wording on my part anyway, it comes mainly from my original language. We use equivalent of 'maybe' instead of 'in my opinion', so there may be some confusions when I try to write fast and just translate my thoughts straight up. There are quite a lot of dangerous translations actually. I try to be careful with my main points, but when it comes to 'secondary' thoughts, a flow of words, there may be some puzzling expressions.

            Anyway, my point there was, to put it simply, that - while O'Brien is an experienced coach - some of his decisions, substitution patterns, motivational efforts have been rather suspicious, and shouldn't be excused just because the talent had been sub-par.

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: A question for the OB haters

              Originally posted by ballism View Post
              Fair enough.
              It was a bit suspicious wording on my part anyway, it comes mainly from my original language.
              I didn't even notice you were a foreign poster until you made the above comment.

              I wish people that speak English as their original language could communicate as well as you do.
              Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

              ------

              "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

              -John Wooden

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: A question for the OB haters

                Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                Is it fair to blame Jim for the losses, but not give him credit for the wins.
                Yes....

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: A question for the OB haters

                  Its only 13 games in but my feelings on Jim haven't changed. We are better this year and its completely different than the past few but we are 7-6 and we still lost 4 of those games that we should have won. We should be 11-2 not 7-6, that's a huge difference. Jim deciding to still stick with Mike at this point is another reason to question him, he is still nothing good as a coach.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: A question for the OB haters

                    So, your mad we are't 11/2?

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: A question for the OB haters

                      Originally posted by spazzxb View Post
                      So, your mad we are't 11/2?
                      Yes. Are you happy we are 7-6? Your happy and content watching this team lose games, give games away that we should of won? Damn, that's what I hate more than anything, giving away a win. Your content watching mediocre basketball when you could be watching something great, 11-2 is great for this team but were just ok at 7-6.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: A question for the OB haters

                        You know the fact we have played so well these past 4 games really does make those early stupid losses much worse. Like someone said in a different thread, there would be A LOT of buzz about this Pacers team if we had won the games we SHOULD HAVE won, along with these other wins.

                        I think playing OKC and the Lakers is going to really allow us to see what we have with this team. I am excited, but cautiously so. Part of me thinks we will play a really close game with the Thunder and get blown out in LA. The other part of me wouldn't be surprised at all to see us win both games....time will tell.

                        Also, I think Jim O'brien is a good coach when he has his players on board. Like UncleBuck said, what he does in the games is overrated and what goes on behind the scenes is very underrated.
                        *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: A question for the OB haters

                          Originally posted by Hibbert View Post
                          Yes. Are you happy we are 7-6? Your happy and content watching this team lose games, give games away that we should of won? Damn, that's what I hate more than anything, giving away a win. Your content watching mediocre basketball when you could be watching something great, 11-2 is great for this team but were just ok at 7-6.
                          I am patient and have been seeing a young team grow together and compete every night. Rush has been getting minutes, and the Lineups make sense. Also rush was suspended 5 games. You failed to name anything our coach has done wrong this season. I woul like rush to start but things are trending that direction. There are legitimate reasons for everything our coach has done to this point. Just because games are close does not mean we should have won. Being competItive is not a weakness.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: A question for the OB haters

                            Random thought before I go to bed....Russell Westbrook is going to eat Collison alive, we better hope TJ Ford brings his A game on the defensive end.
                            *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: A question for the OB haters

                              Also, Durant will probably make Josh Mcroberts cry at some point...literally.
                              *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: A question for the OB haters

                                Originally posted by Hibbert View Post
                                Yes. Are you happy we are 7-6? Your happy and content watching this team lose games, give games away that we should of won? Damn, that's what I hate more than anything, giving away a win. Your content watching mediocre basketball when you could be watching something great, 11-2 is great for this team but were just ok at 7-6.
                                The losses that most of you pointing out to be "losses that we should've won" are early season losses. The fact that we have new faces on the team (DC, PG, Posey), as well as new roles and implemented plays (more Hibbert inside the post, PnRs, no more Murphy, McBob starting, etc.) contribute to the early instability of the team to win games. On the first few games we see the team scoring so much and then the next game their shooting has gone sour.

                                But looking at the last 4 games, we have seen a more consistent defense that we haven't seen in a long time. Those 4 games we have held the opponents to less than 100 points, and the last 3 wins are in a convincing fashion, leading by more than 10 points on each win.

                                7-6 is not that bad given that we have won 3 of the last 4 on a strong note, including the back-to-back blowout games in Miami and at home vs the Caves. Plus, the loss that I believe that we should've won is the Philly game. Houston killed us even if there is no Yao with Miller's 3-pt shooting, which is unexpected IMO and have broken the defense inside. The Bucks are one of the formidable defensive teams even without Bogut so not much surprise there. We could've won over the Magic but their defense are one of the best in the league, so we just can't get far ahead of them during that game even after getting the lead. The other losses are from the current superior teams, Atlanta and San Antonio. So for me, the current 7-6 is not bad considering the teams they have played so far.

                                And right now, the current Pacers are still "mediocre" because there are still 69 games to prove that they are "great." Lineup wise, only Granger has become an all-star, DC is still a sophomore that are not yet polished, Roy is still embracing the new role as another go-to-guy inside, Rush is still starting to assert himself on offense, Dun is still streaky after recovery, and our PF spot still needs improvement to compete against the elite PFs from the likes of Celtics and LA. We're showing signs of improvement, so we just have to be patient to wait for this team to become great once again.

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