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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

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    Post Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot
    Written by Peck

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    I wasnít going to get one of these out tonight but just in case something happens with the Cavaliers I want to at least have something good to say about this amazing game.* It wonít be long and it wonít have much if any real substance (as if any of my odd thoughts ever do) but I felt compelled to get this out there.

    Let me get this out of the way right up front and I will not even pretend to listen to anyone who wants to tell me otherwise.

    We beat the Miami Heat; they didnít find a way to lose.

    Was Haslam hurt?* Yes.

    Was Wade hurting? Yes.

    I donít care; nobody ever bothers to give us any excuses when our players are convalescing so I am not going to give them any for this game either.* Besides his royal highness was dressed and so was the other tag along player so as far as Iím concerned the Miami Heat put their team on the court.

    But forget the Heat this game was about the Indiana Pacers.

    To steal an old expression this isnít your Father Pacers.* Or more specifically this is not last years Pacers.* Twelve games in and frankly Iíve seen enough to know that even if we donít have an outstanding record at the end of the season I feel confident enough to say that we are a fundamentally changed ball club.* Same coach, several of the same players but a whole new attitude and most importantly a whole new priority.

    Is it the vast improvement by Roy?* Is it a new commitment by Danny?* Is it the insertion of Josh at the four spot?* Is it OíBrien adjusting the defense?

    The answer is yes.* Yes to all of the above and so much more.

    Look Iím going to go ahead and take a moment to beat on a dead horse, I wonít do it for long & I apologize for the flies but I have to say it.

    We donít win this game if Troy Murphy is on our team.* Our team does not commit to defense the way we have this season if Troy Murphy is on our team.* Thatís all Iím going to say on the topic now but I believe this with every fiber of my being.

    There are so many heroís from this game and what is funny is that guys who we would normally count on for a big night for us did not really have good nights at all and we still won.

    But if you are going to name the biggest hero of the night you would think you have to start with Brandon Rush or you could honestly make the case that T.J. Ford was equally important or even that Danny Grangerís overall game was the reason for the victory.

    But if you really want to start with the hero of the night then as much as this is going to pain some of you, if your honest with yourselves on this you know Iím not lying here, you have to say this win was on Jim OíBrien.

    Letís start right from the start, what did Jim do?* He did what several of you have wanted him to do for awhile now and started Brandon Rush on Dwayne Wade.* Call it divine inspiration, common sense if you prefer or you can call it by its true name good coaching.* He put the right guy on the right player and the impact was other worldly.* Yes Wade was hurt, I donít care.* Brandon was like a shark and the moment he smelled blood in the water not only did do Godís work on the defensive end he then did the one thing that nobody in Miami & probably Indiana for that matter expected.* He attacked; he attacked the offensive end with such ferocity that Miami had no answer for him at all.* However this might have been a different story had Jim not made the inspired decision to start Brandon.*

    Starting Brandon alone would be enough to give him kudos for his coaching job but it didnít stop there.* Our entire defensive scheme that sometimes burns us badly tonight worked like a charm.* Now he said himself after the game had Miami hit the threeís this would have been a different story, but they didnít and thus packing the middle and not allowing clean open drives to the basket paid off and paid off big.* Even with us having to play against the five heat players and the three refereeís that were there to blow their whistle every time a Heat player even pretended to drive did not help on this night.

    So for this one night I have nothing and I mean nothing to say about Jim OíBrien other than the highest of praises.* Iím sure that will last till about 7:13 tonight when I see Posey coming in early in the game.

    Bullet point shining stars:


    • Danny Granger played a solid overall game.* There was one segment in the first half where it was just Danny on LeBron with James having the ball with his back to the basket. He faked right three times, did a hesitation fake left and ultimately had nowhere to go.* He passed to Bosh for a jumper which he hit but in that one play Danny stopped the King cold in his tracks.* Different Danny by far.
    • Josh McRoberts had the single most spectacular zero point three rebound five foul game Iíve probably ever seen.* He has got to score at some point in time but this guy tonight was disruptive on the defensive end and the fact that he did not draw foul six but still continued to play aggressive defense is a testament to his skill and a testament to the faith OíBrien showed him.
    • T.J. Ford: I know a lot of people clown on him and I get why but at the end of the day right now this is probably the best backup point guard in the NBA.* In fact he probably put the Pacers up with his play and made it so Miami was fighting uphill from there on out.* His defense was solid, his playmaking was good but his shooting was just out of this world good in the first half.
    • Solomon Jones was just absolutely outstanding.* As has been pointed out he grabbed more rebounds in this game than he had all the previous games combined.* That together with solid defense and a couple of timely buckets helped the Pacers weather the storm of Roy not having the best of nights and again being in foul trouble (no hate for Roy BTW, itís just good to know Solomon had his back in this game).

    *

    Overall this was just a solid game and frankly we have had more solid games than we have not had this season even though we are only .500%.* Losing to Orlando was hard to swallow but anybody who left that game had to pretty much think that we gave them a run for their money did not embarrass ourselves at all.

    I just can not get over how much better of a defensive team we are this season.

    Now here is the challenge for Brandon Rush.* Nobody expects him to repeat this performance every night, however if he wants to I am certain no one will complain.* But we can not have Ĺ season Brandon.* Half of the season being meek & timid while just standing out at the three point line and the other half teasing us all into thinking that you are going to be the 16 point 5 rebound second team all defensive player that some want to think you can be.* Just give us solid effort every game, take the ball to the rack at least three to four times a game and play solid defense and we will all be happy.

    We can lament future losses at another time, we can look for weaknesses and fallacies within the franchise at a future date.* However on this night we must proclaim the Pacers like Caesar before them victorious.

    *Veni, vidi, vici


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    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    I think the Pacers were happy to take their talents to South Beach.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    I can say with near certainty that I will not feel more satisfied after a Pacer win again until at least the All-Star Break.

    The Pacers took their talents to South Beach and shat all over the King and his Court. That has to make you feel good as a Pacer fan.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    Good game last night, decent coaching by Jim also(I want more Tyler and less Posey)

    I would also say that if Miami wants to use the Dwade and Haslem excuse we can use the same excuse too, DC was playing hurt and one of our bigs was out(Foster), great game after all let's hope they keep it going and win today.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Good game last night, decent coaching by Jim also(I want more Tyler and less Posey)

    I would also say that if Miami wants to use the Dwade and Haslem excuse we can use the same excuse too, DC was playing hurt and one of our bigs was out(Foster), great game after all let's hope they keep it going and win today.
    I think the Wade/Haslem excuse is a cop-out. We don't have anyone as talented as Wade or James on this team, and they both played tonight, as well as Bosh. They got straight up beat by the better team tonight, and they can complain about injuries or coaching all they want, but they got outplayed.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    Hey, mild complaint but what's with all the asterisks RoboHicks has been throwing into these when he migrates them from the front page? It's a little distracting.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Hey, mild complaint but what's with all the asterisks RoboHicks has been throwing into these when he migrates them from the front page? It's a little distracting.
    You know what's distracting?

    The front page.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    The Pacers took their talents to South Beach and shat all over the King and his Court. That has to make you feel good as a Pacer fan.
    nothing nba related is more enjoyable than that.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Hey, mild complaint but what's with all the asterisks RoboHicks has been throwing into these when he migrates them from the front page? It's a little distracting.

    true, i was scrolling to the bottom to read some sort of a disclaimer/footnote there...

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    Add one more good coaching decision to JOB's list. When the bench was outplaying Miami, JOB left them in there.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    Wade might have been hurt.

    But we also have to remember that a ankle does not heal in a few days either. DC should of been running circles around the heat but was still clearly bothered by his ankle as well.

    All teams have injuries.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    If Rush continues to play like he has in the last 7 games (going to the basket, making crisp passes, moving without the ball, playing weak side defense, playing the passing lanes, helping on defense as well as the on the ball defense he has played in the past) he is definatly a starting SG. I hope he has gotten over his tendency to just wander around the court like he did last year. He may make me a fan.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    Brandon plays with this attitude, even without this much success, on a consistent basis and he finally becomes what everyone hoped for. He justifies having Dun come off the bench and strengthens the starting unit.

    Brandon goes back to being Passive Stand-Around Man and he displaces someone from the starting unit with a scoring mentality, watering down the initial attack while Dun alone isn't enough punch to make the bench scoring pick up (bench success against Miami notwithstanding).
    BillS

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    "Pax O'Briena - Detente" appears to have been reinstated, and even the sniper fire seems to have subsided, for now.

    How long this peace accord will last is anyone's guess, but, for now, it appears that O'Bird was on the right track with his trademarked "This Thing is Working".

    Of course, things have changed radically since this summer, actually within the last four games, with passing, defense, and rebounding becoming prevalent in the Pacers attack which has led to a better performance, but at least learning appears to have happened, and true change has occurred for the first time since O'Brien has arrived.

    Goooooooo Pacers!!!!!!!!

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    I thought that Danny was the MVP of this game. I remember multiple times where he straight up locked-down LeBron and I have never seen LeBron shut down- wait, besides that Boston series. Danny played 2nd team all-defense against James and quite frankly I loved it. He moved the ball very well, and even though he couldn't hit a shot, he hit the two huge threes that were icing on the cake.

    I love me some Danny Granger. Performances like this motivate the whole team to play better.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    • T.J. Ford: I know a lot of people clown on him and I get why but at the end of the day right now this is probably the best backup point guard in the NBA.*
    Wow... Just wow... I say this b/c this isnt as far fetched as we would have believed coming into the season...

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    Guess it's a good thing that the Pacers are on national TV this year.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboHicks View Post
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    I donít care; nobody ever bothers to give us any excuses when our players are convalescing so I am not going to give them any for this game either.* Besides his royal highness was dressed and so was the other tag along player so as far as Iím concerned the Miami Heat put their team on the court.
    Thanks Hicks. Other than "Mascara" ( I forgot who in the Game Thread said that Bosh had to go check his Mascara ), I now have another new nickname for Chris Bosh......the "Josť Carreras" ( the often forgotten member of the "Third Tenors" ) of the Big 3 in Miami....."Tag Along".
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    Sometimes you just have to let players play thru mistakes. Of course you can't let them kill you on the court, but you don't have to take out a player who has made a mistake in favor of a player who cannot provide what the player you're removing provides (especially when that is needed height and defense). A little faith in a player and instructive coaching can go a long way. Soloman Jones was a fine example of that last night. Josh McRoberts is another.

    Since I'm no fan of Jim O'Brien it could be argued he had no choice last night thanks to Hibbert's foul difficulty but to live with a few mistakes by those guys but whatever the reason, sticking with them paid dividends.

    Not having the Troy Murphy security blanket goes a long way. And I'd much rather have Posey than Murphy. Of course smaller doses of Murphy last season would've went a long way too...

    Brandon was impressive so whoever started the thread the other day asking if we could forgive him now has their answer... yes!

    Granger's defense will endear him to more fans than any amount of shooting will ever do.

    And before I get too high on the win I have to remember that Miami isn't the Miami everyone was expecting when they scored the player trifecta last summer... and the season is early... and we've looked bad in a couple of games... and it's early still. But we've also looked good in some games, the defense has looked much improved, we're seeing players looking improved, and so there's reason for optimism.

    ...to be continued...
    Last edited by Bball; 11-23-2010 at 12:34 PM.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    I'm sorry, but I just don't see the TJ praise. He hit shots, and I guess that's a good thing, but he still dominates the ball WAY too much. And by way too much, I pretty much see him as Travis Best 2.0.

    If he's hitting his shots, like he was in the 2nd qtr. then he looks a lot better than he is, but if he's shoting at his normal clip it's bad.

    I just don't understand for the life of me, why when DC is in the game he gives it up early in the shot clock to go stand in the corner and then when TJ comes in he pounds the ball looking for his own shot, and then we're told TJ runs the system better.

    Ugh..... TJ still routinely jumps in the air without a plan. He did it multiple times last night, and good thing that his teammates recognize it because they actually move outwards to give him a passing lane.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I'm sorry, but I just don't see the TJ praise. He hit shots, and I guess that's a good thing, but he still dominates the ball WAY too much. And by way too much, I pretty much see him as Travis Best 2.0.

    If he's hitting his shots, like he was in the 2nd qtr. then he looks a lot better than he is, but if he's shoting at his normal clip it's bad.

    I just don't understand for the life of me, why when DC is in the game he gives it up early in the shot clock to go stand in the corner and then when TJ comes in he pounds the ball looking for his own shot, and then we're told TJ runs the system better.

    Ugh..... TJ still routinely jumps in the air without a plan. He did it multiple times last night, and good thing that his teammates recognize it because they actually move outwards to give him a passing lane.
    Exactly, has he been abysmal..no..he hasn't. It hasn't been a "OMG I HATE TJ" year so far..He has "almost turnovers" instead of turnovers. He does give up the ball more than he did last season..And his ball pressure is good (but his defense isn't remotely as good as people make like. Yes he pressures..but screens will end up with TJ's man being completely open, and when his guys doesn't have the ball, he loses him)

    However, he hasn't been great or even good most games. He's been a "placeholder" He hasn't hurt us, but most of the time he hasn't helped us either.

    Last night though, he looked good. He was "in the zone" and that was a huge reason we won (bigger reason was BRANDON RUSH) He limited his stupid decisions last night too. As I've been saying.. I hope its an audition. The idea that we "need" him for a playoff run is laughable.

    End of the day, more often then not we're a better team with Collison/Price PG rotation. However, the irony is that all three of our PGs are much better than anything Miami's got.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    First, as one of the charter members of the Travis Best Anti Fan Club, I would say that the only similarity between TJ and TB is that they hold the ball a lot. TJ moves with the ball much more often, TB stood still and waited for the play to develop around him - which tended to mean nothing because he had trouble seeing what to do once things started, so far too often it was "dribble dribble (etc) pass to open man with no time on shot clock".

    As for the difference between 09/10 TJ and 10/11 TJ, I wish I had some video to prove this to myself as well as point it out, but here's what I think - TJ both plays with his head UP and also plays with his body slightly angled away from the defender this year. The first means he sees much better who else is on the floor and where they are, especially after he has started his move. The second not only keeps a passing lane open but it forces him to slow down sooner during his move, meaning he is much less likely to go all out-of-control and lose the ball in a sea of defenders' hands.

    I still get chills (not good ones, oh, no) when TJ drives madly into traffic or when he pulls up for an outside jumper. But as long as he stays in control, most of those things even out and we see much more of "good" TJ than we do "evil" TJ.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I just don't understand for the life of me, why when DC is in the game he gives it up early in the shot clock to go stand in the corner and then when TJ comes in he pounds the ball looking for his own shot, and then we're told TJ runs the system better.
    I have not noticed that. I will look for it though and let you know

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    First, as one of the charter members of the Travis Best Anti Fan Club.
    I was about 9years old, with no internet connection, and me being the only one watching the games, so my memory on Travis is probably a little fuzzier than most. But.....

    I do remember him standing up top just beating the ball away, but at times I feel like if TJ did that, it wouldn't change much. He'll make his way over to the wing, and take a look, then change directions and try to get into the lane, then will put his head down and either get under the goal only to circle out to the short corner to take this fade away jumper, or he'll just take his fade away jumper about the foul line if he doesn't get all the way to the baseline.

    If he does neither, he'll jump in the air to make a pass or just dribble it out.

    During the 24sec clock, I would bet money that he averages the ball in his hands for atleast 15secs. He'll make a pass to the wing, and then follow it and get it back with a hand off multiple times a game.



    I'm sorry, but TJ isn't anywhere near the type of PG I like. He's a very poorman's Steve Nash, without the passing ability nor the off-the-dribble pull up jumper.

    Sure, he hit shots. That's nice. But it's still bad play.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Hot, Hot, Hot [The Front Page]

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I was about 9years old, with no internet connection, and me being the only one watching the games, so my memory on Travis is probably a little fuzzier than most. But.....

    I do remember him standing up top just beating the ball away, but at times I feel like if TJ did that, it wouldn't change much. He'll make his way over to the wing, and take a look, then change directions and try to get into the lane, then will put his head down and either get under the goal only to circle out to the short corner to take this fade away jumper, or he'll just take his fade away jumper about the foul line if he doesn't get all the way to the baseline.

    If he does neither, he'll jump in the air to make a pass or just dribble it out.

    During the 24sec clock, I would bet money that he averages the ball in his hands for atleast 15secs. He'll make a pass to the wing, and then follow it and get it back with a hand off multiple times a game.



    I'm sorry, but TJ isn't anywhere near the type of PG I like. He's a very poorman's Steve Nash, without the passing ability nor the off-the-dribble pull up jumper.

    Sure, he hit shots. That's nice. But it's still bad play.
    Honestly, I believe Ford is playing a more controlled style than Collison. Collison makes me cringe with some of his shot selection on the dribble drive. Plus, I like Ford's hustle for chasing down loose balls.

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