View Poll Results: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat?

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  • Yes

    53 43.09%
  • Is this real life?

    23 18.70%
  • No

    25 20.33%
  • Maybe - He hasn't shot enough for us to know (Hibbert)

    8 6.50%
  • Kill me. Kill me now. (count55)

    14 11.38%
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Thread: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Maybe thats why we lost so many games...
    I'm just saying to act like teams were probably 100% ok with leaving Rush wide open from 3 might be more of an indictment of the offensive futility that this team showed last year.

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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    Rush shoots 62 % from the free throw line.. 42 % from the field. your telling me this guy is an accurate shooter, but can only manage 62% from the free throw line, when no one is gaurding him and the shot is significantly closer?

    and i am suppose to believe that Rush is a consistent shooter, yet he can barely make 6 of 10 free throws.

    okay.. apparently good shooters in the nba knock down 42 percent from three but make only 60 percent of their free throws.
    Objection. Relevance.

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    its evident to me, if rush attempted anywhere near the 3's that granger or dunleavy averages his shooting percentage would drop significantly. if rush were actually more aggressive with his shot instead of simply shooting when he is wide open and stationary then his percentage would drop.
    Isn't part of being a good shooter knowing not to take poor, contested shots? How or why is this an indictment of his shooting ability?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    give Granger the open looks that rush gets and Grangers 3 pt percentage would skyrocket to over 50 percent easily.
    I doubt it. With improved shot selection, Danny would probably get to the mid 40%s however. Which is about 6% better than Rush's avg.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    And for all those who said "Teams probably never game planned for Rush's shooting", I have to ask what were they game planning against us then? After Danny and Troy, Brandon's 3 point threat was about the only thing we had on offense last year, especially with the way JOB would usually cripple Roy for the opposing team so they rarely had to worry about him.
    Teams game plan for every player, even Josh McRoberts, so even the claim that teams don't game plan for Rush is bunk.

    I can give you Rush's offensive scouting report pretty easily. "Don't lose him. Force him to put the ball on the floor, because he will quickly give it up." Done. And while I'm sure they have multiple pages dedicated to him, a lot of it will be charts/graphs of where he likes to shoot, and most of it will be redundant.

    Rush is definately a consistent 3pt shooter. But he is no way a consistent shooter overall. He would be if he shot the ball more, but he doesn't so....

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    Just to commpare him to some of the great 3pt shooters in the league..

    Paul Pierce 09-10 .414 3pt%
    Brandon Rush 09-10 .411
    Troy Murphy 09-10 .384
    Ray Allen 09-10 .363

    Brandon was 14th in the league in 3pt FG% with a minimum 50 attempts.
    and as i stated earlier in this thread.. those of you in love with stats and %'s can have Brush all day long... give me Ray Allen and he is gonna knock down wide open 3's 60% of the time.

    if its not clear now.. i dont know how else to illustrate it.. there is a difference b/t shooting the ball on the move, coming off a screen, and with a defender only trailing you for a second, which is what happens to ray allen, and then there is rush, who only shoots when he is open and feet are set.

    but i guess that type of logic doesnt apply and clearly rush is a much better shooter than ray allen b/c the %'s are always 100% accurate.


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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    Have I once IN THIS ENTIRE THREAD, compared Brandon Rush to Ray Allen and said that I would like to have Rush play shooting guard over Allen?

    You are the one that keeps making those ridiculous comparisons. The poll does not say "is Brandon Rush the best shooter in the NBA" or "is Brandon Rush better than Ray Allen"?

    How hard is that to comprehend?
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 11-16-2010 at 02:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    and as i stated earlier in this thread.. those of you in love with stats and %'s can have Brush all day long... give me Ray Allen and he is gonna knock down wide open 3's 60% of the time.

    if its not clear now.. i dont know how else to illustrate it.. there is a difference b/t shooting the ball on the move, coming off a screen, and with a defender only trailing you for a second, which is what happens to ray allen, and then there is rush, who only shoots when he is open and feet are set.

    but i guess that type of logic doesnt apply and clearly rush is a much better shooter than ray allen b/c the %'s are always 100% accurate.

    Ray Allen camps corners way more than you would like to admit. He's the king of receiving the drive and dish.



    Again, I said this much, much earlier in the thread:

    All clutch shooters are good shooters, not all good shooters are clutch.

  8. #57

    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Have I (or anyone else) once IN THIS ENTIRE THREAD, compared Brandon Rush to Ray Allen
    Calling him a top 3 point shooter in the league is sort of misleading much like comparing his percentages to Ray Allen. Sure it looks nice but there is no meat and potatoes to that argument. One has a big stick that he whips out a lot and the other just keeps it in his pants..

    Thats why I compared him to lowly Kapono
    Last edited by Gamble1; 11-16-2010 at 03:04 PM.

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  10. #58
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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    He is one of the top 3 point shooters in the league on a % basis as well as %+attempts. That doesn't compare him directly to Ray Allen at all.

    I mean Rush shot nearly 4 3s/game last year. That's not shooting it very often? How many times do you guys want him shooting the 3 to prove he's consistent? Should he be taking 6/game? 7? 8?
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 11-16-2010 at 03:06 PM.

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  11. #59
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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    RE: PacersPride

    All you are saying is that numbers can be misleading, but you have not made one coherent point as to what it is exactly that make's Brandon's stats misleading!

    So far you started off referencing one airball that Rush had, even maintaining at one point that Reggie Miller had NEVER in his entire career airballed an open 3.

    Then you also said, you don't like his follow through. Which again I will say, lots of great shooters have had unorthodox releases, even Reggie Miller.

    And Kidd has been a very good 3 point shooter since he arrived in Dallas, suggesting perhaps that his problem was never his shot, but rather his shot selection. He does get more open looks in Dallas and hits them at a very reliable rate. Which is the entire point of taking an open 3 pointer no?
    your correct, i have nvr seen REG jack up an airball from behind the arc when he was WIDE OPEN!! i have stated this more than once. I remember the play vividly last season, someone shot, pacers got the offensive board, they kicked it out to rush who was WIDE OPEN, and im thinking man if this guy cannot hit this shot than im not sure about his shooting.. what happened next, rush jacked up an airball.. a freaking airball when no one was around him. maybe if rush were playing outside with a strong gust of wind that might be understandable, but this is supposedley a great 3 pt shooter and he airballs it from deep when no one is within 5 feet of him..

    c'mon man!!

    form doesnt matter, i suggested rush improve his follow through in an effort to see him improve; but if a guy can shoot it with unorthodox form like REG.. so be it.

    lastly, i have made several points on this and why Rush's stats are misleading. i dont know how to make it any clearer than i have already. rush likely shot a high % due to the fact he is WIDE OPEN when he does shoot it. if Allen or Granger were able to shoot wide open 3's, they would likely be in the 60's when it comes to percentages from behind the arc.

    or.... if Rush ever shot the ball on a fast break transition attempt as opposed to a set shot, his %'s would not be as high.

    maybe there is a misunderstanding b/t how i view an accurate 3pt shooter and your definition. rush was drafted on his ability to shoot. but good shooters in this league are not going to get wide open looks, they have to be able to move w/o the ball, get around screens, and still hit the shot with a hand in their face.. rush cannot do that and that is the REASON he attempts so few shots!!!

    if Rush were a good shooter, he would be bold enough to shoot when his feet are not set, coming off a screen or in transition as Granger does.. but rush is not that good of a shooter and that is the reason his attempts are low. sure.. he can shoot 41 % when he is wide open.. but most players in this league that are SG's when left open should be able to hit the shot. what separates the good/great shooters from the average ones is the the ability to hit contested shots on the move.. something rush will not even attempt.

    again, maybe he worked on his shooting over the summer and i will be proven wrong, but based on what i have seen, his brother was a much better shooter. does rush have the ability to become a good shooter, i believe yes, but i have yet to see any reason that i would trust him with a game winner.

    Granger, Dunleavy, Posey, and even George appear to all be better shooters at this point in there career, and i might add aj price to the list if i have seen him play more than he has.

    ive always been told and firmly believe that good shooting starts at the free throw line. if you are a good shooter than you should average 80%. rush is in the freaking 60's so pls spare me this "is this real life" stuff until rush gets around 75% from the stripe, and actually has the courage to take and make contested 3's.

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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    Also, I have a feeling that if Rush was averaging 20 ppg and this thread was up, even if he was still only shooting 3.7 3s/game, we'd have an entirely different result up there. Which is a shame. Being a good scorer, and being a good shooter are not the same thing in every case. I feel Rush is being punished by some for not being a good scorer or not being aggressive enough.

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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    I can think of 100 different good shooters that don't have to come flying off screens to get their shot off. That is something good SCORERS have to deal with.

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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    I hate the self-quote, but I feel like this needs repeated:

    Quote Originally Posted by TinManJoshua View Post
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    All clutch shooters are good shooters, not all good shooters are clutch.

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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    rush cannot do that and that is the REASON he attempts so few shots!!!
    First of all, I find the assertion that Granger would hit 60% of his threes if given the same shots Rush gets to be hilarious. Do you remember how poorly Danny performed in the 3 point contest? He was awful. Why? Danny is a better shooter on the move than he is when he has time to think about it. He is a pull up shooter, Rush is a set shooter. Two different things. And yes, I wouldn't trust Rush with a game winner either, but that has nothing to do with his shooting ability and a great deal to do with his mental fortitude.

    Second of all, do you really believe Rush attempts few shots? That's what I want to focus on. He's well above the league average on 3 pointers attempted both over the course of a season and per game.

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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    Quote Originally Posted by TinManJoshua View Post
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    Brandon Rush is not Adam Morrison. How he has transitioned into the league does not exactly mirror the circumstances of Brandon.

    If you don't wanna go that way, then how about this.

    Brandon Rush's first two NBA seasons 3pt%:

    37.3% rookie
    41.1% Sophomore

    Reggie Miller's first two NBA seasons 3pt%:

    35.5% rookie
    40.2% Sophomore


    I never claimed to be smart, I just think it's a bad idea to blindly argue against numbers.
    therefore your assuming rush is going to become the 3 pt assassain that Reggie Miller was? i think your reaching, and again i rely on the eyeball test more so than stats alone.

    the %'s may be comparable, but were the number of attempts? also, were defenders slacking off REG and letting him shoot open jumpers so they could double elsewhere. all these things must be taken into consideration.

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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    the %'s may be comparable, but were the number of attempts? also, were defenders slacking off REG and letting him shoot open jumpers so they could double elsewhere. all these things must be taken into consideration.
    Reggie was actually in a pretty similar situation to Rush his first two years. Reggie was just ballsier, and more of a scorer. And no, I'm not saying Rush will be Reggie.

    Reggie his rookie year shot 172 3s. Rush shot 209.
    Reggie his second year shot 224 3s. Rush shot 302.

    Now who's shots were more open? I wasn't able to watch, so I can't say for sure, but based off what I know of those two years in Pacers history, I'm going to say they were probably in pretty similar situations. Why? Because the Pacers of the late 80's weren't a whole lot different than the Pacers of today. They had this guy named Chuck Person who much like Danny Granger drew the focus of the defense. So I'm imagining Reggie got a lot of his looks in his first two years in a similar fashion to how Brandon did these past two.

    They were wired differently though, and thus why Reggie became a great SCORER, while Brandon will probably only remain a great SHOOTER.

    I would need someone who wasn't 1 year old then to confirm my thoughts for me, but I'm really doubting Reggie was the primary focus of the opposing defense his first two years.

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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    therefore your assuming rush is going to become the 3 pt assassain that Reggie Miller was? i think your reaching, and again i rely on the eyeball test more so than stats alone.

    the %'s may be comparable, but were the number of attempts? also, were defenders slacking off REG and letting him shoot open jumpers so they could double elsewhere. all these things must be taken into consideration.
    You made a comparison to Adam Morrison, I figured I could return the ridiculous comparison favor.

    Here are the attempts numbers:

    Reggie:
    61-172
    98-244

    Brandon:
    78-209
    124-302
    Last edited by TinManJoshua; 11-16-2010 at 03:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    Quote Originally Posted by TinManJoshua View Post
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    I hate the self-quote, but I feel like this needs repeated:
    of which Rush is neither.. heaven forbid he get fouled in game 7 of the nba finals and have to make two clutch free throws..

    maybe he can move back to the three point line and shoot em.. might have a much better chance.

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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    First of all, I find the assertion that Granger would hit 60% of his threes if given the same shots Rush gets to be hilarious. Do you remember how poorly Danny performed in the 3 point contest? He was awful. Why? Danny is a better shooter on the move than he is when he has time to think about it. He is a pull up shooter, Rush is a set shooter. Two different things. And yes, I wouldn't trust Rush with a game winner either, but that has nothing to do with his shooting ability and a great deal to do with his mental fortitude.

    Second of all, do you really believe Rush attempts few shots? That's what I want to focus on. He's well above the league average on 3 pointers attempted both over the course of a season and per game.
    your going into an unrelated subject to this discussion. im stating that the majority of rush's threes are uncontested; good shooters in this league are not given the opportunity to shoot 3 uncontested 3's on average per game.

    for example, rush may shoot 70% of his 3's over the course of a season with time to set, and get a good look at the rim; leaving the other 30% to be contested.

    if rush were known as a consistent threat from deep like a Danny Granger, Ray Allen, or Reggie Miller.. the number of contested shots would be more like 70% and the open shots with time to set would be 30%.

    it does not suprise me at all rush averages 3 threes a game.. because thats really all he does is camp out at the 3 pt line waiting for an open look.

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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    of which Rush is neither.. heaven forbid he get fouled in game 7 of the nba finals and have to make two clutch free throws..

    maybe he can move back to the three point line and shoot em.. might have a much better chance.
    You're making stuff up now. He shoots 67% from the free throw, and 39% from three. He'd still have a better chance of making free throws at the normal line.

    And again, numbers don't lie. If Brandon Rush's 3pt% hovers around 40% for his career, he's a good shooter. That doesn't make him a clutch shooter.

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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    1.) One of your main complaints this whole time has been that he doesn't shoot it enough to know one way or the other.

    2.) Rush's man is a lot more willing to leave him because frankly, Rush doesn't have a single other part of his offensive game that at this point in time commands attention. I guarantee you though, that every single scouting report in the NBA on Rush says that he is a 3 point threat. I mean I would be absolutely shocked if this wasn't the case.

    And you still haven't addressed the fact that are different kinds of shooters, Danny and Brandon are two entirely different shooters. They don't even attempt the same kinds of shots. Danny looks for 3s in transition, while Brandon looks for 3s in a half court setting. We saw Danny in the 3pt contest in a more half court, feet set environment and he did miserably.

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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Reggie was actually in a pretty similar situation to Rush his first two years. Reggie was just ballsier, and more of a scorer. And no, I'm not saying Rush will be Reggie.

    Reggie his rookie year shot 172 3s. Rush shot 209.
    Reggie his second year shot 224 3s. Rush shot 302.

    Now who's shots were more open? I wasn't able to watch, so I can't say for sure, but based off what I know of those two years in Pacers history, I'm going to say they were probably in pretty similar situations. Why? Because the Pacers of the late 80's weren't a whole lot different than the Pacers of today. They had this guy named Chuck Person who much like Danny Granger drew the focus of the defense. So I'm imagining Reggie got a lot of his looks in his first two years in a similar fashion to how Brandon did these past two.

    They were wired differently though, and thus why Reggie became a great SCORER, while Brandon will probably only remain a great SHOOTER.

    I would need someone who wasn't 1 year old then to confirm my thoughts for me, but I'm really doubting Reggie was the primary focus of the opposing defense his first two years.
    it was also a completely different era in basketball as well at that time.. the 3 pt line was first adopted i believe about the same year REG entered the league.. so what may not seem like alot of 3's at the time by today's standards.. was actually more attempts than you would realize.

    either way.. calling rush a great shooter at this point in his career is kinda hard to accept. he may eventually become a good shooter, but he has alot of work ahead if we wants to be mentioned in the same sentence as Reggie.

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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    1.) I've never said he's as a good a shooter as Reggie, as clutch a shooter as Reggie, or that he will ever be Reggie Miller. You brought up Reggie first when you said Reggie had never, in his entire career, airballed an open 3. Count already proved that wrong. All I said, was that Reggie and Rush joined the Pacers in comparable situations, but they are wired 100% differently.

    2.) You claim to be such a basketball expert, yet you think the NBA 3 point line was introduced the same year Reggie entered the league? Um, no. The NBA adopted the 3 point line for the 1979-1980 season. So basically 8 years before Reggie ever stepped onto an NBA court.

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride
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    so what may not seem like alot of 3's at the time by today's standards.. was actually more attempts than you would realize.
    I'm not sure what this means...numbers are numbers. Unless NBA 3 point shooting suffered some sort of inflationary event, is a 3 pointer today worth more than a 3 pointer tomorrow. What's the exchange rate on an NBA 3 pointer when traded for a Euro League 3 pointer?

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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    1.) I've never said he's as a good a shooter as Reggie, as clutch a shooter as Reggie, or that he will ever be Reggie Miller. You brought up Reggie first when you said Reggie had never, in his entire career, airballed an open 3. Count already proved that wrong. All I said, was that Reggie and Rush joined the Pacers in comparable situations, but they are wired 100% differently.

    2.) You claim to be such a basketball expert, yet you think the NBA 3 point line was introduced the same year Reggie entered the league? Um, no. The NBA adopted the 3 point line for the 1979-1980 season. So basically 8 years before Reggie ever stepped onto an NBA court.



    I'm not sure what this means...numbers are numbers. Unless NBA 3 point shooting suffered some sort of inflationary event, is a 3 pointer today worth more than a 3 pointer tomorrow. What's the exchange rate on an NBA 3 pointer when traded for a Euro League 3 pointer?
    your correct, i got Bird mixed up with Reggie. the 3 was introduced around when Bird came into the league.

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    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I'm not sure what this means...numbers are numbers. Unless NBA 3 point shooting suffered some sort of inflationary event, is a 3 pointer today worth more than a 3 pointer tomorrow.
    The Great MidRange Jumper Famine of 2004 saw a dearth of jumpers in front of the three point line. Due to this, three-pointers became a much more profitable commodity.

  28. #75

    Default Re: Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat

    Was Reggie a consistent 3 point threat? He matched Rush's percentage 5 times in his 18 season career and didn't match Rush's 3 PT made 7 times.

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