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Odd thoughts while navigating the high seas [The Front Page]

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  • Odd thoughts while navigating the high seas [The Front Page]

    Odd thoughts while navigating the high seas
    Written by Peck

    Link

    *

    Well at the 8 game mark we are a .500% ball club with a record of 4-4. That’s not really a bad record nor technically is it a good record either but with the new mix of players, plays & even new assistant coach’s I think most of us can look objectively at this and say that we are not really upset by the record as it stands.

    However in today’s journey I want to guide you through what I perceive to be rough waters.

    Some of this we have covered before & frankly some of it is rehashing of problems from the past but I think it is worth taking the time to look at anyway. However so that we are fair & balanced we will also look at some bright spots as well.

    Rough Waters:

    Josh McRoberts had a period of about 3 games where he got into early foul trouble and thus forcing Jim to replace him far earlier in the rotation than the plans called for. Obviously he can not always control what is called on him and for the most part the fouls have been legitimate (in other words no soft touch fouls) but it does mess up the rotation massively when he does this so early on.

    Josh McRoberts has got to become somewhat of an offensive threat. Sorry for picking on Josh in this post because I am a supporter but he has got to develop some form of offense other than a high flying spectacular dunk. Now don’t get me wrong we need those as well but the other night vs. the Cavaliers they literally were giving Josh 8-10 jumpers and daring him to hit them. I don’t know what his field goal % is right now but I can assure you that away from layups & dunks it has got to be terrible. Also while we are at it O’Brien needs to have him shooting 500 free throws a day because at this point in time he is making Dale Davis look like Calvin Murphy from the free throw line.

    Darren Collison ball gawking. He usually does fairly decent about staying with his man, although he has certainly been burnt a few times there as well, but his off the ball defense has led to several wide open cuts to the lane and easy layups by his man because he literally loses them while watching the ball and they make a quick cut to the basket usually leading to an easy 2 or in a few cases so far a and 1 situation.

    Paul George has been too passive for my taste. I get that he can hit the three and I get that he has a silky smooth jumper but to borrow a phrase from Rocky I really want to see the eye of the tiger from Paul. I almost want R. Lee Emory to come scream at him to show us his war face. I have no problem with Jim giving Paul a little pine time to get his attention as long as that is the goal, which I do believe it is. I think if Paul has good practices this week you will see him right back in the lineup.

    Tyler Hansbrough not understanding the offense pretty much at all. I don’t remember him having this type of trouble last year but right now for the most part he seems lost on the offensive end and he is getting his scores usually off of broken plays. Now to me this may also be part of another troubling trend we will talk about in a few minutes but for now this is the system we run so I guess Tyler has got to learn it & execute it.

    Tyler Hansbrough needs to rebound better on both ends of the floor. For the life of me I can not figure out why this guy is not averaging 9 rebounds a game. He is huge so he clears out space, he blocks out fairly well that I can tell; now he is not a leaper but good positioning should take care of that problem. This is something he is going to have to work on as the year moves on.

    Danny Grangers shot selection has been somewhat iffy from game to game. There are some games where he seems intent on driving to the basket and then other games he seems content taking a quick jumper either from distance or even a mid range. Now there is nothing wrong with mixing it up so no complaints there but I think he needs to mix it up every game.

    Our offense has also begun to trouble me over the past few games. In fact while we all want to be happy about the 20-21 in the Denver game I actually was somewhat disturbed because I really wonder what happens if those same shots are not dropping? I heard Jim say after the game how each of those shots were good shot and I kept thinking to myself does he really believe this? I mean several of those Mike Dunleavy shots were with him falling to the floor and often times with a defender rushing at him. There were also some mid range shots that I was wondering about as well. Now don’t get me wrong when you are on a streak like that you obviously can take shots where you want to but I am troubled that the last three games have required super human scoring streaks or at the very least highly improbable shooting %. Obviously the Denver game will not be repeated but what I found more troubling was that it took James Posey going nuts from the three point line to even get us back into the game vs. Houston. Overall I am just very concerned about the way we are scoring in general. I have a feeling that there is already enough tape on us out there that teams are just cutting off the lanes and daring us to just take jumpers. Some games you are going to hit those jumpers some you are not but you need to have some form of offense in mind so that you do not use the old adage of live by the sword die by the sword (insert jumper or three for sword).

    Jim O’Brien I fear is already losing patience with the players. I have really been troubled that our closing lineup the past couple of games has included T.J. Ford, James Posey & Josh McRoberts taking the role of undersized center.

    So let’s review that lineup for a minute shall we? Mike Dunleavy, Danny Granger, T.J Ford, James Posey & Josh McRoberts. Hmmm…..

    This sounds small, old and other than Josh un-athletic to me, in other words the same type of lineup that he has used every other year that he has been here.

    While our defense has been solid it really struggles when Roy is not in there to anchor the middle & for the life of me I do not understand why he is not closing out games when they are still in contention as to who wins.

    Again I’m not jumping course here I just find some of these to be troubling.

    Smooth Sailing:

    Mike Dunleavy seems to have at least found his shot again. I like the three point shot that he can give you but I really enjoy the fact that he is trying to get to the lane and draw fouls. His defense will never be anything to shout about but at least he is not ball gawking like his partner in the starting back court.

    Roy Hibbert has been absolutely fabulous on the defensive end for the most part, well other than letting old man river Brad Miller abuse him the other night (still one of the worst trades in Pacers history btw) but Roy has stayed out of foul trouble and has been not only blocking shots but altering them as well. Several times during the Cleveland game I noticed guards begin to penetrate only to see Roy in position so they just passed out. His rebounding has been an added bonus as well. I don’t think any of us would have predicted that his rebounding would be anywhere near as good as it has been.

    Danny Granger’s shot selection, yea I know I’m contradicting myself here but I’m doing it anyway. For the most part this year Danny has been very conscious about not just settling for three’s and has mixed in some of the old mans game that Eddie Johnson bragged about three years ago. In other words while he still plays below the rim he has a wide array of shots that he can get off and does not need athleticism to get them.

    James Posey is not Troy Murphy. Look I don’t want Posey sucking up a lot of minutes on the floor but one thing needs to be made clear for those who want to just say that he is this years Troy. No, he is not. James actually plays defense and plays it very well. Obviously he no longer has any speed and his offense is sickening to me but on the defensive end there is no comparison to Troy Murphy at all.

    Jim for the most part has kept a big man on the floor most of the season. I honestly don’t know if Danny has even played one min. yet at the four spot, he may have I just don’t remember it. But he is either running Roy, Josh or Solo on the floor. Now Posey is really to short for my taste at the 4 but he is now to slow to keep up with the younger wings so by default he is now a power forward.

    Darren Collison can get his shot off any time and anywhere. Unlike T.J. though he actually doesn’t make me cringe when he shoots. I have given up on our point guards ever being anything other than glorified shooting guards until we have a coaching change so I do not even look at the assist from Darren anymore because our system is not designed for that but I do believe he can be that type of point guard and also a scorer on top of it. I think he and Danny & Roy are a very solid foundation to build upon.

    T.J. Ford has played decent basketball. Very solid defensively and while at times I want to scream at the top of my lungs about his decision making he hasn’t been that bad. Now the down side to this is that A.J. Price is just sitting over there doing nothing. I’m not sure what the plan is here, I just do not believe teams showcase players the way some of you think that they do. The book has been written on T.J. Ford so nothing is going to change there; I just actually feel that Jim (after 3 years) is comfortable with him. So if this leads to a mid season trade or not we will never know but I think he is playing not because of any showcase I think he is playing because Jim prefers him at this time.

    Observing the mariners compass:

    We are about to embark on a killer schedule with lots of very good teams and at least two sets of 3 games in 4 nights. If we can come out of our next 8 games at .500% I think you have to look at that as win for our club.

    Tyler rolled his ankle so that is troubling as we could use some aggressiveness when the Hawks come to town. Let’s hope he can both go and play.

    I think it is highly important that we establish some form of low post game from Roy & we really need to start working on getting some kind of offensive plays designed to get Tyler some looks going to the basket as well.

    Red sky at night sailor’s delight, Red sky in the morning sailors takes warning:

    Hib Hib Hoo Roy: Big Roy is second in the NBA at 3.0 blocks per game trailing only behind Josh Smith who is averaging 3.1 He is also 13 in the NBA with 9.6 rebounds per game.

    Work on it: Josh McRoberts is shooting an anemic 29% from the free throw line which is far worse than either his field goal or even three point shooting.

    *beeps*

  • #2
    Re: Odd thoughts while navigating the high seas [The Front Page]

    Lots of good stuff there. One thing that jumped out at me:

    "If we can come out of our next 8 games at .500% I think you have to look at that as win for our club."

    I think that should read 'a tremendous win' for our club. Really, expecting to win more than two or three of those games seems like a stretch to me. But hey, if we beat Atlanta, I'll change my tune on that.


    [~]) ... Cheers! Go Pacers!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Odd thoughts while navigating the high seas [The Front Page]

      Tyler is averaging 4.1 rebs in 17 minutes. That's 8.2 in 34 minutes.
      Not sure what you are expecting there............................

      Overall, I think you're pretty much wrong on most of the criticisms.
      As for the players tuning out coach, you must have missed the last game.
      Where they won with defense and played nice team defense.
      It was almost as though the players were doing what their coach required.

      Imagine that.

      You are right about Josh, his shot is **** and it's why he won't be starting for long. We don't need him shooting 3's but he's not even close or looking comfortable from 15'. LOVE his energy and passing, but you can't be a total liability on the offensive end.
      Last edited by MLB007; 11-14-2010, 09:43 PM.

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      • #4
        Re: Odd thoughts while navigating the high seas [The Front Page]

        Once again good post, I'm starting to think that is true that we actually have the worst starting PF in the NBA, I like Josh but he hasn't done much lately.

        Regarding Posey and the comparison with Murphy I agree that his defense is a bit better but again he should be an small part in the team and shouldn't be playing that Many minutes.

        I also agree with you about the shot selection, Dunleavy is been making some weird shots, even Danny has been making impossible shots, I spect them to kill the team more times than help.

        I been saying for a while that I have a feeling that Jim is going back to his veteran line up and he is been getting there slowly.
        @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Odd thoughts while navigating the high seas [The Front Page]

          Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
          Once again good post, I'm starting to think that is true that we actually have the worst starting PF in the NBA, I like Josh but he hasn't done much lately.

          Regarding Posey and the comparison with Murphy I agree that his defense is a bit better but again he should be an small part in the team and shouldn't be playing that Many minutes.

          I also agree with you about the shot selection, Dunleavy is been making some weird shots, even Danny has been making impossible shots, I spect them to kill the team more times than help.

          I been saying for a while that I have a feeling that Jim is going back to his veteran line up and he is been getting there slowly.
          That might be a little harsh but then again if we go starting 4 by starting 4 he might be one of the worst.

          However even as bad as he has been playing so far, he is still a huge improvment over Troy Murphy.

          I still think with time he will be fine but there can be no doubt he has to have some form of offense.


          Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Odd thoughts while navigating the high seas [The Front Page]

            Originally posted by Peck View Post
            That might be a little harsh but then again if we go starting 4 by starting 4 he might be one of the worst.

            However even as bad as he has been playing so far, he is still a huge improvment over Troy Murphy.

            I still think with time he will be fine but there can be no doubt he has to have some form of offense.
            I agree is better than having Murphy but he needs to be able to do something in the offensive end, I was laughing hard when Jim called that last second play for him, it was like watching the Jeff Foster Lakers play all over again.
            @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Odd thoughts while navigating the high seas [The Front Page]

              Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
              I agree is better than having Murphy but he needs to be able to do something in the offensive end, I was laughing hard when Jim called that last second play for him, it was like watching the Jeff Foster Lakers play all over again.
              Can't argue with that. I like Josh, I like Tyler as well but right now both are struggling a little bit.

              Hopefully time will improve that.


              Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Odd thoughts while navigating the high seas [The Front Page]

                It's a 2 headed monster at 4 right now and those guys are averaging 14.2pts and 10.6 boards per game in 40ish minutes.
                I'm guessing that's competitive at the position.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Odd thoughts while navigating the high seas [The Front Page]

                  Dang it I knew I forgot something.

                  Brandon Rush has now played in three games and has attempted, yes you guess it, 2 free throws. Both of which were in his first game back.


                  Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Odd thoughts while navigating the high seas [The Front Page]

                    Originally posted by kester99 View Post
                    Lots of good stuff there. One thing that jumped out at me:

                    "If we can come out of our next 8 games at .500% I think you have to look at that as win for our club."

                    I think that should read 'a tremendous win' for our club. Really, expecting to win more than two or three of those games seems like a stretch to me. But hey, if we beat Atlanta, I'll change my tune on that.
                    Yea .500% really should be looked at as a huge victory for us. It is going to be a very rough couple of weeks.


                    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Odd thoughts while navigating the high seas [The Front Page]

                      I know that we are talking about the "here and now", but if we are to step back and look at both McBob and Hansbrough and what they truly appear to be....IMHO, solid backup Players at their respective positions that can ( if needed ) step in and be a "short-term" Starter but not truly suited to be "long-term" Starting material. It does not surprise me that they are struggling in their current roles.....I'd be more surprised if we weren't struggling.

                      What strikes me most about our PF rotation is that we are forced to play Posey as a PF not as much because he's doing fairly well...but because he's doing better then our current rotation of actual PFs ( at least compared to McBob and Hansbrough ) and JO'B doesn't appear to have too much choice.
                      Last edited by CableKC; 11-15-2010, 03:37 AM.
                      Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Odd thoughts while navigating the high seas [The Front Page]

                        Originally posted by Peck View Post
                        Dang it I knew I forgot something.

                        Brandon Rush has now played in three games and has attempted, yes you guess it, 2 free throws. Both of which were in his first game back.
                        That's troubling.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Odd thoughts while navigating the high seas [The Front Page]

                          McRoberts has 7 FT attemps for all 8 games btw. On one hand, that means there's no reason to be so ultra negative with his 0.286 %, i'd be surprised if he's not at 0.500-.0600 by the end of the season. On the other hand, it's surprising he has less than 1 FT a game, considering his style.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Odd thoughts while navigating the high seas [The Front Page]

                            Well, I guess that I am going to be the first to point this out.

                            I'm going to call the two headed monster with Josh McRoberts and Tyler Hansbrough bogus. Don't get me wrong before I start rambling on about them, they have been fairly good for us in terms of energy and rebounding. However, when I think of monster I at least think of someone who can at least create their own shot or someone that is able to get a shot off in traffic.

                            We all know Tyler's back to back game is very suspicious and Josh's doesn't exist while they both aren't respectable enough at 17-18 feet to take the ball off the dribble like say JJ Hickson or even Jason Thompson to name a few younger players. They are good rebounders but neither have the ability- at least yet anyways- to have big time games on the boards. On top of that- us, one of the worst fouling teams in the league- Josh and Tyler foul way, way, way too much as well as other role players such as Solo, James Posey, Dahntay Jones, and Paul George.

                            So, to conclude my mini-rant I just want to say that when someone compares Josh and Tyler to someone like Al Horford or Chris Bosh think twice about it because Tyler and Josh mostly get buckets by filling the lanes on the break, broken plays, off of offensive rebounds, or whatever. That's not a bad thing, but when we need some halfcourt play don't expect it from them and especially don't expect consistency and last but not least expect fouling.

                            All that said, I still love watching Josh and Tyler play. Thoughts?

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                            • #15
                              Re: Odd thoughts while navigating the high seas [The Front Page]

                              Agreed, I'd much rather see someone like Hickson taking those PF minutes as well. I hope that's how we spend all that cap space or the pick.
                              That's without judging upside/off the court issues - I remember there was some issue with Hickson and Scott early in the season? Can't remember the nature of it.

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