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Thread: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PurduePacer View Post
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    Our recruiting hasn't been as good as yours. Difference is we have a coach that gets more out of less, and yours gets less out of more. I am enjoying though.
    Yeah ok. Anyone who honestly thinks Painter has been getting more out of less the past 4 years is full of bologna.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    What I meant was Painter makes his guys better. Don't see that down sounth. Point is Painter is a much better coach, and we are a much better team right now. You guys might have been better in the past, we're better now.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    Why is Painter a better coach than Crean? What has he accomplished that Crean hasn't?

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    There really is no point in arguing anything PU/iu so I'm done after this. Crean has the FF run with Wade, but I don't see how you can argue Crean is better than Painter. I'm just going to keep enjoying winning THIS season.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    Ok, that's great. Thanks for the convincing argument.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    Well I am pretty sure we can at least agree that there is no way I will change your mind.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    Well unlike you I think they are both solid coaches.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    Most likely we both over-rate our team's coach and under-rate the rival's at least to a small degree. Which coach would you rather have?

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    Right now I'd have to say Crean. He has completely dominated in state recruiting since he got here.

    Painter is a fine coach though and Purdue is lucky to have him.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    Also, I'd love to know how Crean has under achieved with more talent since getting to IU.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PurduePacer View Post
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    Most likely we both over-rate our team's coach and under-rate the rival's at least to a small degree. Which coach would you rather have?
    Crean for recruiting and program building, Painter for the in-game X's and O's.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    I'd like to see Painter win something before I even say he is clearly a better in game coach than Crean.

    I like the guy, but he hasn't really proven anything yet.

    He got a class in Hummel, Moore, and Johnson. Those three guys were all border line 5 stars and probably would have been in today's Indiana high school recruiting scene now that everyone has accepted how deep our talent pool is.

    Crean (Dwyane Wade or not) took a team to the Final Four. And let's give Crean some credit for finding Wade and sticking with him (academically ineligible his first year on campus and only a 3 or low 4 star recruit to begin with)

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I'd like to see Painter win something before I even say he is clearly a better in game coach than Crean.

    I like the guy, but he hasn't really proven anything yet.

    He got a class in Hummel, Moore, and Johnson. Those three guys were all border line 5 stars and probably would have been in today's Indiana high school recruiting scene now that everyone has accepted how deep our talent pool is.

    Crean (Dwyane Wade or not) took a team to the Final Four. And let's give Crean some credit for finding Wade and sticking with him (academically ineligible his first year on campus and only a 3 or low 4 star recruit to begin with)
    They were not borderline 5 stars. If I remember correctly, they were all in middle of the pack 4 star guys. Nationally ranked in the 50-100 range.

    I think you should take a step back. The Indiana high school recruiting scene has always been a big deal and highly respected. Nothing has changed at all from 4 years ago when those guys were recruited.

    I give Painter credit because when I watch Purdue I see a well functioning team who plays hard and makes good adjustments. I see improvement out of their players from year to year (Johnson especially has made huge strides in his 4 years in West Lafayette).

    Up until the past few games, I haven't seen that out of Crean. I think they are both good coaches, but just based off what I have seen, I think Painter is probably the better in game coach. Who knows, Purdue could be a Final Four team this year. I doubt it, but besides that curb stomping in Columbus, they have played pretty well.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    If you remember that class had 4 guys, ironically, the highest ranked one (Scott Martin I think was his name), is the one that transferred to Valpo.

    Those guys got dogged on the national recruiting scene for different reasons.

    1.) Hummel and Matin- Played in the boon docks on the same team and never got the individual credit they deserved.
    2.) Johnson- Was seen as a raw project, which he was, but for some reason didn't get the potential bump so many other projects get. IMO this was because of **** poor guard play on his Franklin Central team.
    3.) Moore- IMO he was clearly a 5 star talent, but I do think the talent evaluators had a tough time giving two shooting guards from Indiana 5 star talent ratings.

    Scout and Rivals and other sites definitely think about how many 5 star ratings they give to a certain state, and Indiana was still viewed as a "very good" but not great recruiting state. They only give out about 20-25 five star ranking a year, so IMO if you're a top 50 recruit you're a border line 5 star player, and I think the only guy who wasn't top 50 was Hummel, but I'm not 100% sure on that. I'd need to go check.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 01-31-2011 at 02:49 PM.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    And I'm not taking away credit from Painter, I just think you've been overly harsh on Crean so far this year. There's only so much you can do on the floor when you have Tom "I should be playing for Butler's bench" Pritchard starting at center. I don't think Cody Zeller's arrival and subsequent replacement of Pritchard can be overstated at this point.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    If you remember that class had 4 guys, ironically, the highest ranked one (Scott Martin I think was his name), is the one that transferred to Valpo.

    Those guys got dogged on the national recruiting scene for different reasons.

    1.) Hummel- Played in the boon docks and never got the credit he deserved.
    2.) Johnson- Was seen as a raw project, which he was, but for some reason didn't get the potential bump so many other projects get. IMO this was because of **** poor guard play on his Franklin Central team.
    3.) Moore- IMO he was clearly a 5 star talent, but I do think the talent evaluators had a tough time giving two shooting guards from Indiana 5 star talent ratings.

    Scout and Rivals and other sites definitely think about how many 5 star ratings they give to a certain state, and Indiana was still viewed as a "very good" but not great recruiting state. They only give out about 20-25 five star ranking a year, so IMO if you're a top 50 recruit you're a border line 5 star player, and I think the only guy who wasn't top 50 was Hummel, but I'm not 100% sure on that. I'd need to go check.
    Hummel and Martin went to the same high school. They both went to Valparaiso. Not really the boondocks.

    I'll just go ahead and say that I disagree with your last paragraph.

    Rankings for those guys:
    #35 E'Twaun Moore
    #42 JaJuan Johnson
    #75 Robbie Hummel
    #76 Scott Martin

    So they were a lot higher than I thought. The last 5 star guy was #28, so it's fair to say that Moore was a borderline 5 star guy, and Johnson not too far behind. I got these rankings from Rivals.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    And I'm not taking away credit from Painter, I just think you've been overly harsh on Crean so far this year. There's only so much you can do on the floor when you have Tom "I should be playing for Butler's bench" Pritchard starting at center. I don't think Cody Zeller's arrival and subsequent replacement of Pritchard can be overstated at this point.
    I'm not criticizing Crean at all here, it's more of me giving praise to Painter. I think he's a really good coach.

    I won't say a word bad about Crean because the past few games he has done a great job, especially considering the injuries we have sustained. The offense is moving and looks better, the defense is still a work in progress, but it's been better. The guys aren't making dumb fouls so much and are learning how to play at the end of games. That's all I want. This is progress, finally. I don't know what has changed or why it has changed, but I have no problem at all with the team that is on the floor now. For the record, I agree that Zeller's inside presence and rebounding ability alone will be a huge boon to this team. Not to mention, the Big Ten will be much weaker next year. All we lose is Jeremiah Rivers (who I love, by the way). We should be middle of the pack in the Big Ten at the very least next season.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    I usually use Scout.

    They had Martin as the 4th best small forward in that class. Moore as the 8th best 2 guard. Hummel as the 12th best SF, and Johnson as the 11th best PF.

    And IMO in terms of competition, Valpo is the boondocks and it certainly hurt their ranks. A guy like Eric Gordon is very, very good, but he got a huge boost from playing in Indianapolis.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I usually use Scout.

    They had Martin as the 4th best small forward in that class. Moore as the 8th best 2 guard. Hummel as the 12th best SF, and Johnson as the 11th best PF.

    And IMO in terms of competition, Valpo is the boondocks and it certainly hurt their ranks. A guy like Eric Gordon is very, very good, but he got a huge boost from playing in Indianapolis.
    Ehhh...maybe. Valpo is really close to Chicago, and from my understanding is considered part of "the region". It might be slightly off the grid, but I don't think it's the boondocks.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I'm not criticizing Crean at all here, it's more of me giving praise to Painter. I think he's a really good coach.

    I won't say a word bad about Crean because the past few games he has done a great job, especially considering the injuries we have sustained. The offense is moving and looks better, the defense is still a work in progress, but it's been better. The guys aren't making dumb fouls so much and are learning how to play at the end of games. That's all I want. This is progress, finally. I don't know what has changed or why it has changed, but I have no problem at all with the team that is on the floor now. For the record, I agree that Zeller's inside presence and rebounding ability alone will be a huge boon to this team. Not to mention, the Big Ten will be much weaker next year. All we lose is Jeremiah Rivers (who I love, by the way). We should be middle of the pack in the Big Ten at the very least next season.

    Rivers is a lot more palatable to me this season than last. Those his free throws last night were absolutely killer to our chances. And I could tell he knew it and I felt bad for him when I saw Crean embracing him after the game as Rivers had his head on Crean's shoulder. This team wants it, and they need to respond Minnesota and Iowa at home are winnable games.

    Verdell may be back as well supposedly, but we can't let his arrival hurt the movement of the offense. He has tendency to stall it with the ball in his hands. I feel like Hulls needs to have the ball in his hands as much as possible because he has made such an incredible leap that even I am shocked, and I think you know how much I like Hulls.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Ehhh...maybe. Valpo is really close to Chicago, and from my understanding is considered part of "the region". It might be slightly off the grid, but I don't think it's the boondocks.
    I just think Indiana high school basketball up north is not as highly respected as central/southern Indiana.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Rivers is a lot more palatable to me this season than last. Those his free throws last night were absolutely killer to our chances. And I could tell he knew it and I felt bad for him when I saw Crean embracing him after the game as Rivers had his head on Crean's shoulder. This team wants it, and they need to respond Minnesota and Iowa at home are winnable games.

    Verdell may be back as well supposedly, but we can't let his arrival hurt the movement of the offense. He has tendency to stall it with the ball in his hands. I feel like Hulls needs to have the ball in his hands as much as possible because he has made such an incredible leap that even I am shocked, and I think you know how much I like Hulls.
    Yeah those missed FTs were killer. I felt bad for him. I'm a little perplexed as to why he wasn't assigned to Kalin Lucas the entire game. Lucas was eating Hulls alive, why wasn't Rivers on him the whole time?

    I hope Verdell is back, but I do fear he hurts the movement on offense. I actually really like Hulls and Rivers doing the lion's share of the ball handling. Rivers has the ability to penetrate the defense and get into the lane, but he is such a lousy finisher that it makes the skill moot.

    I'm right there with you on Hulls. I love that kid. He's such a smart player. You can tell he's kind of turning into the leader that we always thought he was going to be too. I am salivating at the thought of him being a senior with Watford, Zeller, the entire 2012 class, and Creek if he can ever get healthy. That is going to be a scary team for opponents.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    The move and finish Hulls had over Lucas with the shot clock expiring was one of the more impressive plays we've seen from a Hoosier in some time.

    He's just so slick with the ball. Ball handling and passing, it looks like an extension of his body.

    Hulls is going to struggle defensively against a team like MSU, athletes and size at every position. I don't think there was much of a choice on where to hide him. Hindsight being 20/20, you absolutely throw Rivers on Lucas for the whole game, but I think they just knew they had to hope Hulls wouldn't get beat up on too badly.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    Plus he's developed a buttery mid range J off pick and rolls that is Steve Alford-esque we need to get him that look more often if we can. It should be one of our back up plays we go into with <15 seconds on the shot clock when we reset our offense.

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    Default Re: Indiana University 2010-2011 Men's Basketball Thread

    Did you see that bounce pass he made in the first half to a rolling Tom Pritchard? Holy crap the degree of difficulty on that one was off the charts. That kid is the king of the bounce pass.

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