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Thread: Beating a Zombie Horse (or Second tier purgatory)

  1. #1
    Here we go Steelers.. jmoney2584's Avatar
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    Default Beating a Zombie Horse (or Second tier purgatory)

    Also, I touched on this in the game thread and I know it's been brought up numerous times before, but let's get some feedback on DG33 post Rockets loss....

    I used to have hope, thinking Danny would develop some new parts to his game, show us

    his bball IQ or whatnot. Ever since his breakout all-star year, he hasn't added anything

    else to his game. Really, I'd say he's almost regressed. He has never been super quick or

    agile. He doesn't have a great vertical by NBA standards, nor is he excessively strong

    for his position. His goto move is a little hesitation dribble which moves into a quick

    (usually contested) leaning or fade away jumper. He doesn't have any moves that really

    free him up, or that he can use to shake a really good defender to get a clean look or

    get to the basket. When he does go to the basket, he puts his head down and just tries

    to steamroll his way to the cup and it's ugly and if he doesn't get fouled, extremely

    unaffective. If he gets stopped short of the basket on a drive he throws up some crap

    shot usually, he isn't great at passing out of bad situations that he puts himself into. He

    is great coming off of screens, but he is extremely reliant upon other players freeing him

    up. He doesn't even move that much without the ball. Dunleavy, as much as I hate him,

    moves more than Danny without the ball. Overall, this inability to get and create his own

    shot, coupled with his lackluster defense and mediocre athleticism is why he just won't

    ever be great and the reason he is NOT the player to build your team around. I like

    Danny the person a lot. I think he is a GOOD player, but not a GREAT one. I think if

    Danny were to develop a post up game (which he has all the tools to do), it would do

    wonders for his game. As it stands, I cringe when he gets the ball in close situations

    down the stretch. He throws up ugly 17-25 foot jumpers routinely when we are in a

    close game and more often than not clanks them. Sometimes he is hot and they fall, but

    I don't want a player to have to be hot to feel good about his shots. He is the leader of

    the team, so yea he is going to take those shots...but that doesn't change the way I

    feel about it. I would really be ok with moving Danny and a draft pick or whatever it

    takes to get a real superstar in here who can get his own shots. Paul George is going to

    be really good one day, but thats several years off. We need that player now so we can

    start getting into the playoffs and getting our young squad some valuable experience.

    JOBs system doesn't do much in the way of helping Danny get good shots either, but a

    GREAT, ELITE player can get quality shots with or without plays being run for him. Am I

    alone in this? Tell me I'm not crazy... I like Danny, again, I really do....but he is a Robin

    through and through. I had hoped for a long time that he'd get something to click in his

    head and he'd break through, but if it doesn't happen this year then it ain't happening

    ever. He isn't old, but he isn't getting any younger. This is his prime and honestly, he

    isn't going to lead this team anywhere but an early first round exit as an 8th seed.
    Roy Hibbert.... It's the POWER!!!

  2. #2
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beating a Zombie Horse (or Second tier purgatory)

    Man after reading this post its a wonder how Danny ever manages to make a basket!

  3. #3
    Member Jon Theodore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beating a Zombie Horse (or Second tier purgatory)

    I am beginning to think Grangers All Star year was really a fluke. He really just is not that great, I mean he is not even in the same league as a guy like Paul Pierce (who needed other all stars to win a title.)

    Granger is a great guy to have on your team, if he is your third best player who is really there for defense (a skillset he has abandoned). I think most teams would struggle with Granger as a second best player, unless ithe primary guy was Kobe or Lebron.

    My biggest complaint with Granger is that he doesn't seem like he has improved at all the past two years. If basketball is your life (which as an NBA player, I think it's safe to assume it is) then you should see an improvement in basic skills like dribbling over the course of a few years, with Granger I have not seen it. The majority of starting small forwards in the NBA are better ball handlers than Granger.

    I have said it before and I will say it again, improving your dribbling ability is stupid simple, it is just a matter of doing it all the time! (AKA practicing for extended periods of time daily) I remember my highscool basketball coach telling us "anywhere you can dribble, dribble." It is SOOO simple and Granger is so terrible at dribbling the damn basketball! Maybe it is a personal pet peeve, but it really drives me nuts watching him try to take his man off the dribble, it is just pathetic. If he just wants to be a shooter, then he needs to be like Reggie and just ran his man ragged running off screens.

    Certain skills like passing, rebounding and defense are not so easily improved upon, but anybody can become an incredible ball handler if they want too...ANYBODY! Just go to youtube and watch all the 10 year old kids doing insane dribbling moves....guess how they got that good? They are dribbling all the time! They work at it!

    :::END RANT:::
    *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

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    Default Re: Beating a Zombie Horse (or Second tier purgatory)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Theodore View Post
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    I am beginning to think Grangers All Star year was really a fluke. He really just is not that great, I mean he is not even in the same league as a guy like Paul Pierce (who needed other all stars to win a title.)

    Granger is a great guy to have on your team, if he is your third best player who is really there for defense (a skillset he has abandoned). I think most teams would struggle with Granger as a second best player, unless ithe primary guy was Kobe or Lebron.

    My biggest complaint with Granger is that he doesn't seem like he has improved at all the past two years. If basketball is your life (which as an NBA player, I think it's safe to assume it is) then you should see an improvement in basic skills like dribbling over the course of a few years, with Granger I have not seen it. The majority of starting small forwards in the NBA are better ball handlers than Granger.

    I have said it before and I will say it again, improving your dribbling ability is stupid simple, it is just a matter of doing it all the time! (AKA practicing for extended periods of time daily) I remember my highscool basketball coach telling us "anywhere you can dribble, dribble." It is SOOO simple and Granger is so terrible at dribbling the damn basketball! Maybe it is a personal pet peeve, but it really drives me nuts watching him try to take his man off the dribble, it is just pathetic. If he just wants to be a shooter, then he needs to be like Reggie and just ran his man ragged running off screens.

    Certain skills like passing, rebounding and defense are not so easily improved upon, but anybody can become an incredible ball handler if they want too...ANYBODY! Just go to youtube and watch all the 10 year old kids doing insane dribbling moves....guess how they got that good? They are dribbling all the time! They work at it!

    :::END RANT:::
    I think you are oversimplifying it a little. First of all, I can almost guarantee that when Granger was 10 years old he was most likely able to do those kind of things against other 10 year olds also. Very few 10 year olds know how to play any kind of defense at all, it makes doing crazy moves a lot easier.

    Also it takes more than just dribble to get better at dribbling. You can dribble all day by yourself, but unless you do it with a defender on you it really isn't going to help much outside of bringing the ball up the court which I don't think Danny has any trouble with that.

  5. #5
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beating a Zombie Horse (or Second tier purgatory)

    Obviously I'm a Granger fan. There's far more to like about his game than dislike. Also, he has improved tremendously from the start and the fact he's not improved much in a couple years doesn't mean much to me.

    However, I have not seen as much as I would like in terms of helping his team mates...or more precisely helping the team win. Sure, he helps in the sense he is an offensive threat, but for a supposed all-star, he simply doesn't have a lot in terms of intangibles, passing, dribbling (like stated above), defense and rebounding for a guy with his physical gifts. Don't get me wrong, he has a bit of everything...just a little short on these things for a true all-star. I also don't think he has a tremendous BBall IQ or that his court awareness is that great. IOW, the things that separate the greatest players from the Luol Deng type players, I simply don't see in Danny. Is he a cut above Luol, Iggy, etc.? Probably. Just barely though.

  6. #6
    Member Jon Theodore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beating a Zombie Horse (or Second tier purgatory)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I think you are oversimplifying it a little. First of all, I can almost guarantee that when Granger was 10 years old he was most likely able to do those kind of things against other 10 year olds also. Very few 10 year olds know how to play any kind of defense at all, it makes doing crazy moves a lot easier.

    Also it takes more than just dribble to get better at dribbling. You can dribble all day by yourself, but unless you do it with a defender on you it really isn't going to help much outside of bringing the ball up the court which I don't think Danny has any trouble with that.
    That is just false, you can improve dribbling without defenders on you. Practicing dribbling behind the back all by yourself can greatly improve your ability to do it in a game, a simple move like a behind the back dribble would greatly help Grangers ability to score and I believe it is a very simple skill to improve upon, I know that from personal experience. I play basketball recreationally quite a bit and while I have never been a great long range shooter, I am a good passer and dribbler. My ball handling ability is the only skill I feel like is STILL improving (I am 25).
    *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

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    Droppin' knowledge, yo. Mackey_Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beating a Zombie Horse (or Second tier purgatory)

    I posted this paragraph in a long post in the post-game thread, but I think it belongs in here.

    We lost because Granger played like 2009 Danny again. When he plays like that, we are a terrible team. His shot selection was again just horrible. Several of the shots he made were not good shots. He made a few good plays and got the rim a couple times, but more often than not, he was awful. As bad as his shot selection was, his defense may have been worse. He doesn't exert any effort on that end at all. If your best player won't do it, how do you expect the rest of the team to do it? If Granger isn't going to ever be a vocal leader, fine, but if he won't lead on the court either, he can't be a guy you build around.

    I have never seen a "star" player look so disconnected from the rest of his team. I often get the impression that he is out there hunting his numbers offensively.

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    Default Re: Beating a Zombie Horse (or Second tier purgatory)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Theodore View Post
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    That is just false, you can improve dribbling without defenders on you. Practicing dribbling behind the back all by yourself can greatly improve your ability to do it in a game, a simple move like a behind the back dribble would greatly help Grangers ability to score and I believe it is a very simple skill to improve upon, I know that from personal experience. I play basketball recreationally quite a bit and while I have never been a great long range shooter, I am a good passer and dribbler. My ball handling ability is the only skill I feel like is STILL improving (I am 25).
    Just dribbling may have worked for you, but it doesn't necessarily work for everyone. Yes, just dribbling will help get the motion down, but eventually you have to learn how to do it against a defender in a game which doesn't immediately connect for all people, in fact it probably doesn't for most.

    Also think about where you are. Playing basketball recreationally is most likely pretty common here, so I don't see a point in bringing that up.

  9. #9
    Member Jon Theodore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beating a Zombie Horse (or Second tier purgatory)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Just dribbling may have worked for you, but it doesn't necessarily work for everyone. Yes, just dribbling will help get the motion down, but eventually you have to learn how to do it against a defender in a game which doesn't immediately connect for all people, in fact it probably doesn't for most.

    Also think about where you are. Playing basketball recreationally is most likely pretty common here, so I don't see a point in bringing that up.

    If you have a functioning brain, doing multiple repititions of just about anything should increase your ability to do it better.

    Also, what is your e-mail address I want to e-mail you all my future posts for proofreading before I do something stupid and point something out that is common around here, i'd hate to include something in a post that wasn't necessary to bring up. I'll get it together soon, I PROMISE!
    *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

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    Member TinManJoshua's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beating a Zombie Horse (or Second tier purgatory)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Theodore View Post
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    If you have a functioning brain, doing multiple repititions of just about anything should increase your ability to do it better.

    Also, what is your e-mail address I want to e-mail you all my future posts for proofreading before I do something stupid and point something out that is common around here, i'd hate to include something in a post that wasn't necessary to bring up. I'll get it together soon, I PROMISE!
    By this measure, with all the work they've put in:

    JMac should never miss a three.
    Shaq has put summer after summer after summer into his free throws. He should be "Ray Allen" automatic by now. I mean, he has a functioning brain after all.
    There would be no such thing as missed layups or poor shooters or point guards who have poor A/T ratios.

  11. #11
    Member Jon Theodore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beating a Zombie Horse (or Second tier purgatory)

    Quote Originally Posted by TinManJoshua View Post
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    By this measure, with all the work they've put in:

    JMac should never miss a three.
    Shaq has put summer after summer after summer into his free throws. He should be "Ray Allen" automatic by now. I mean, he has a functioning brain after all.
    There would be no such thing as missed layups or poor shooters or point guards who have poor A/T ratios.
    Nice try, that almost made sense.

    See you are assuming that I implied multiple repititions of a certain skill/task would make you perfect at it. Unfortunately, I never used the word perfect or even alluded to it. Unless there is no difference between the definition of improvement and perfection. In my world (AKA reality) improvement can be measured in very small increments, so small most people may not even notice said improvement.

    Did I say Granger can become Chris Paul if he wants too? I don't think I did. If I said that, your post might actually have some merit.

    Also, all of your points had to do with shooting, nowhere did I say shooting is a very easy skill to improve (in fact I would say it is a much more difficult skill to improve)...I DID however say that dribbling was an easy skill to improve.

    So if you want a redo on your post, I will allow it.
    *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

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