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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

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"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

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Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

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If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

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A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Rule #10

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Rule #11

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Star article on offseason workouts

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  • #1

    Star article on offseason workouts

    Before you get excited, it's pretty weak. Can't say there was anything in it that I didn't already know.

    Offseason is no time to slack off


    Offseason is no time to slack off

    Pacers leave town in search of ways to bulk up, improve skills.

    By Mark Montieth
    mark.montieth@indystar.com
    August 24, 2004

    By all accounts, the Indiana Pacers are working diligently this offseason. They just aren't working in Indiana.

    Like players from most NBA teams, the Pacers scatter far and wide during the summer. From season's end until just before training camp begins, a fan would be more likely to meet one of them in Atlanta or Los Angeles than in Indianapolis.

    Reggie Miller and Austin Croshere have been in the Los Angeles area. Jermaine O'Neal spent most of his summer in Portland, Ore., then went to L.A. Jamaal Tinsley and Anthony Johnson are in Atlanta. Jonathan Bender is in New Orleans. Jeff Foster is in San Antonio, working out at the Spurs practice facility.

    The practice court at Conseco Fieldhouse, meanwhile, remains empty on many days. Ron Artest, the only veteran Pacer to live in Indianapolis most of the summer, attended rookie/free agent camp for a few days in July but has otherwise been an irregular presence. First-round draft pick David Harrison also has spent most of the summer here since signing a contract early in July.

    Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh would like to establish the fieldhouse as a workout center -- not only for the Pacers players but for other NBA and nearby college players. But he and team president Larry Bird recognize the logistic realities, as well as the fact young, single players are going to have the time, money and desire to live where they want in the summer.

    "I'd like to (have more players work out in Indianapolis), but it doesn't seem to work out that way," Walsh said. "We just don't have that many pro players here in Indy."


    Road trips for coaches

    The Pacers monitor progress by sending coaches around the country to work with the players. Coach Rick Carlisle has seen 10 of the 14 players under contract for next season, recently adding Bender to his list. Assistant Kevin O'Neill, hired by the Pacers the last week of July, already has worked with Tinsley in Atlanta and Miller and Croshere in Los Angeles. Special assistant Chuck Person and conditioning coach Bill Dean have visited Bender and will go back this week. Associate head coach Mike Brown will visit Bender, Jackson, Foster and O'Neal.

    It's certainly not as convenient as everyone meeting at the fieldhouse, but it has some advantages. Person believes everyone needs to get away from one another after being together nearly every day from October through the end of the playoffs. He also believes players are motivated by going off on their own, working on their games and their bodies in relative privacy, then coming back for "show and tell" when camp opens.

    This approach is nothing new. Carlisle spent most of his offseasons as a player working at the University of Virginia and in French Lick with teammate Larry Bird.

    "I see the benefits in a lot of (scenarios)," Carlisle said. "If you have a lot of guys around it's easier to get to them. On the other hand it wouldn't afford the opportunity to recharge and get away from it.

    "I don't mind the fact a lot of guys scatter in the summer. I'm pretty certain it's like that with most franchises."

    It is, although San Antonio has been a successful exception. Brown worked with Spurs players in San Antonio in the summers during his three seasons as an assistant coach there, including the championship in 2003.

    Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Stephen Jackson, Bruce Bowen and other core players stayed in San Antonio to work out, which enticed others to do the same. The Spurs made it more attractive by opening their facility to the players' families. The wives were welcome to use the weight room and treadmills, and the kids could swim in the pool or watch DVDs in the lounge.

    Brown even took the players on road trips to Houston to compete against other NBA players for a change of pace. They were there, in fact, on Sept. 11, 2001, during the terrorist attacks. They watched it all unfold on television at the gymnasium, then rented vans and drove back to San Antonio.

    The Pacers might have to wait for some of their core players to grow older, get married and settle down to establish a similar environment in Indianapolis.

    "You'll see a changing of the guard," Person predicted.

    "You have to let these young men grow up. Just because they have six, seven years in the league doesn't mean they've gotten through the maturation period. They want to travel the country and travel abroad just to see different things. You can't always expect them to want to stay in one place. They have inquiring minds and they're still growing."

    Opportunities abound

    Regardless of where they work, the players have plenty of opportunities to improve, either on their own or in structured environments.

    About 60 NBA and college players and about 25 coaches gathered at a high school in Las Vegas for a four-day camp the first week of August. They practiced twice a day, with drills and lectures in the morning that covered nuances such as setting screens and curling off them. They scrimmaged at night, with referees and clocks.

    Carlisle, Brown and assistant Chad Forcier all worked the camp. O'Neal and Jackson participated, as did Eric Snow, Paul Pierce and several less-established players.

    The camp began as informal private workouts conducted by legendary NBA assistant Tim Grgurich for Snow and some UNLV players after Snow's rookie season in 1996. It has grown from word-of-mouth advertising and now turns away players and coaches who aren't properly connected. Grgurich has declined offers of sponsorship because he wants to maintain control, which also allows him to refuse media coverage. A Boston Globe reporter who entered the gymnasium on the first day was told to leave, and a cardboard sign was posted on the gymnasium's back door to keep out other undesirables. What it lacked in grammar it made up for in clarity: "Players and coach's only."

    For the participants, however, it's a valued course in the summer curriculum.

    "It's one of the purest basketball situations we have," Carlisle said. "Everybody's there because they want to get better and because they love and respect the game."

    Pete Newell ran his annual Big Man camp the same week in Las Vegas, offering intensive instruction for post players. Newell, a Hall of Fame inductee as a coach, has operated the sessions for several years, recently moving them from Hawaii to Las Vegas to make them more accessible.

    Players wanting more intense instruction can go to the IMG Academies in Bradenton, Fla. Joe Abunassar, director of the basketball academy, works with more than 50 NBA and college players in August, when preseason preparations get more serious. Former Pacer Al Harrington is a fixture, spending several weeks each summer. Tinsley spent the summer there two years ago, and former Indiana University forward Jared Jeffries is among the regulars.

    The players pay $1,000 per week for the experience, although discounts are offered for long-term participants.

    "This is not a place for everyone," said Abunassar, a former student manager at Indiana University and an assistant coach at Wyoming. "They go hard.

    "A lot of guys think they're just trying to get in shape for training camp. But if a guy's telling me that, he doesn't have the right philosophy. This is the time to get better."

    Wherever they are.

    Call Star reporter Mark Montieth at (317) 444-6406
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Star article on offseason workouts

    If Bender had just 1% of Chuck's "cockiness", he would have already revolutionized the power forward position.

    Chuck made a lot of progress with Ron and Tinsley last season, and I'm glad to see he's working with JB. But this will be a real test of Chuck's ability to contribute from the front office.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Star article on offseason workouts

      Originally posted by Jay@Section222
      If Bender had just 1% of Chuck's "cockiness", he would have already revolutionized the power forward position.

      Chuck made a lot of progress with Ron and Tinsley last season, and I'm glad to see he's working with JB. But this will be a real test of Chuck's ability to contribute from the front office.
      I still think Chuck should be an official assistant. Maybe when Mike gets a head gig they'll put Chuck on the bench.
      Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Star article on offseason workouts

        No.

        Chuck should continue as "consultant to the CEO" or whatever his title is.

        I suspect, at some time in the future, Larry Bird will leave the Pacers high-and-dry again. He's a ing Celtic, after all. So secretly, I believe DW is training two successors, one with a high-profile name, and a backup in case the little birdie flies away again.

        I see Chuck more in the Mel Daniels/ Billy Knight mold - better in the front office than on the bench.
        Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
        Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
        Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
        Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
        And life itself, rushing over me
        Life itself, the wind in black elms,
        Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Star article on offseason workouts

          Originally posted by Jay@Section222
          No.

          Chuck should continue as "consultant to the CEO" or whatever his title is.

          I suspect, at some time in the future, Larry Bird will leave the Pacers high-and-dry again. He's a ing Celtic, after all. So secretly, I believe DW is training two successors, one with a high-profile name, and a backup in case the little birdie flies away again.

          I see Chuck more in the Mel Daniels/ Billy Knight mold - better in the front office than on the bench.
          Interesting.

          I've always felt that when Larry leaves, and yes, when I say "when", I mean "when", that Billy Knight would come back. But I wouldn't have a problem with Chuck.
          Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Star article on offseason workouts

            I don't understand the thinking that Bird is going to leave any time soon. Yeah he left coaching after 3 years, but he said he would since he got here. He hasn't said anything like that about this job.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Star article on offseason workouts

              Kegboy, that's my Plan B. As much as I love BK, he hasn't exactly been very good with the Grizzlies or Altanta, though.

              Hicks, I just think his allegience still belongs to the Celtics, although he's clearly loyal to DW. I believe he's using the Pacers as a stepping stone. He was on his way to the Bobcats or somewhere else before DW intervened.
              Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
              Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
              Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
              Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
              And life itself, rushing over me
              Life itself, the wind in black elms,
              Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Star article on offseason workouts

                I think the only way Larry leaves is because he can own the Celtics...If I remember correctly in one of his autobiographies, it sounded as though he was/is done with the Celtics unless there's new ownership. I don't know why I even wrote this post. :shakehead:

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Star article on offseason workouts

                  In case you haven't checked the paper in the last twenty months, the Celtics do have new ownership. The guy Bird didn't get along with is out.

                  Larry didn't want to coach in Boston because if he failed as a coach, he didn't want to hurt his legacy there. I fully expect him to return to the Celtics when he's got enough front office experience to feel confident. I'm not saying anything is imminent, but DW has three more years on his contract. If Larry sticks around for four years after that, that's seven more years. How many times will we all change jobs or careers in the next seven years? That's a long time in today's NBA.

                  If Jerry West is running the Grizzlies, anything is possible.
                  Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                  Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                  Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                  Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                  And life itself, rushing over me
                  Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                  Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Star article on offseason workouts

                    If Larry's here for 4 years after Donnie's retired, I don't see how you or anyone can call him on abandoning or leaving us in the dust for Boston. That would be a long time here.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Star article on offseason workouts

                      How long has Donnie been here now?
                      You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Star article on offseason workouts

                        Regardless of how long he stays, I *would* call it 'abandoning' if he hasn't trained anyone to be his successor, like what DW's done to varying degrees with Billy Knight, the guy from Portland (Kahn?), Mel Daniels, Chuck and Larry.

                        But *if* he leaves four years after DW retires, then he will have been in charge for four years, while DW was in charge for 20. That's my point, I don't see Bird here for the rest of his front office career. We're a stepping stone. Someone like Chuck or BK who spent a significant portion of their playing careers here - those guys are more likely to settle in for a long time and not job-hop.
                        Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                        Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                        Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                        Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                        And life itself, rushing over me
                        Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                        Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Star article on offseason workouts

                          Originally posted by SoupIsGood
                          How long has Donnie been here now?
                          DW joined the Pacers in 1984 and was promoted to GM in 1986. So he's been in charge for eighteen years now, I guess, with, presumably, three years to go.
                          [edit=72=1093403101][/edit]
                          Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                          Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                          Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                          Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                          And life itself, rushing over me
                          Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                          Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                          Comment

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