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I still want Mike Dunleavy to start once Rush returns

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  • #16
    Re: I still want Mike Dunleavy to start once Rush returns

    Originally posted by BillS View Post
    This is all you guys have to say in response to that breakdown? Why not give some details on why you don't agree with DD rather than just spouting the same worn out phrases. WHY don't we need Mike - who is it that brings the same or better in all areas? WHY is Mike just a scrub - based on DD's post that's an awful high performance level from a scrub - and who is it that shows him up?
    Yeah after those two gems filled with such intellect and substantiated counter points, they've left me with no choice but to put them on ignore so that I won't have to see them invalidate my thoughts.

    Feel free to explain this post for them BillS.
    House Name: Pacers

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    House Words: "We Kneel To No King"

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    • #17
      Re: I still want Mike Dunleavy to start once Rush returns

      Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
      I do also want him to start. Mike is what I call a glue guy. He makes things work, he makes the other players better and typically you don't realize what he is doing until he is out of the game and then you wonder why the pacers aren't playing as well.
      I lean towards this school of thought, as well.

      Does Mike have every quality that we would want to see out of our starting SG? As DD's summary explains very well, no. Is he the best that we currently have to start at the position? Yes, he is.

      I believe that some have such love for our younger players and such disdain for Dunleavy's present salary that they don't give Dunleavy a fair shot.

      I have no doubt that over time with ample experience that George will become a more valuable player for the Pacers. I don't know that George will ever have Dunleavy's knowledge for the game, but I suspect that he will become a very good scorer and a much better man-on-man defender than Dunleavy.

      If Rush were more aggressive offensively, no make that MUCH more aggressive offensively, he could also become a more valuable player for the Pacers than Dunleavy. Unfortunately, Rush has McKey syndrome, or as Peck would put it, Popeye syndrome... "I am what I am, and that's all that I am!" Rush is a great defensive player that is capable and willing to show his aggression defensively, but for some reason rarely completely engages on the offensive end of the floor. It's like he is afraid to "put himself out there"... perhaps he is afraid of overstepping his bounds in the pecking order or of making mistakes. All I know is that it drives me nuts... it's like he's holding back and no one is able to get him to let it out.

      With Rush's defensive abilities and perimeter shooting abilities, he could always have a place on the team as a specialist. But he could be so much more. But until he is willing to take the risk of possibly making a few oncourt mistakes, he will never come close to approaching his full potential.

      So for what it's worth, I am perfectly happy to go primarliy with Dunleavy until one of three things happens:
      1. George matures to a point that his game is better than Dunleavy's.
      2. The light goes off for Rush on the offensive end of the court.
      3. The Pacers trade for a better SG or sign one through free agency.

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      • #18
        Re: I still want Mike Dunleavy to start once Rush returns

        i miss dunleavy when he was such a good shooter

        if we had that dunleavy and rush playing there we would be one powerful team and george coming off the bench with rush
        In 49 states it's just basketball, but this is Indiana!

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        • #19
          Re: I still want Mike Dunleavy to start once Rush returns

          Originally posted by Since86 View Post
          While I like Mike, I just don't think he brings anything to the table that can't either be bettered or replaced.

          He's only averaging 11pts while shooting 40% from the field. Surely Brandon can atleast average that, this year, with better defense.


          Yes, he's a great cutter without the ball, and it leads to 2-3 layups a game, but I don't think those are unreplaceable scores.

          He's just not bringing anything special to the arena. If he was shooting around 60% while averaging 11pts, and that was because he was knocking down open shots and getting clean cuts, then okay, that's a lot better. But he's averaging those 11pts by taking 11 shots per game, and out of those 11 six per game are 3pt fg attempts. Ick.....

          Dunleavy averages 12pts per game for his entire career, and that's even with a 19pt season mixed in. The year that he was traded to Indy he averaged 14 with GSW and 11.4pts here. We shouldn't expect anymore. He's not going to bring 16pts per game, that's just not who he is, especially considering he's 3years removed from his 19pt season with major knee injury.

          As much as we complain about Rush's lack of production, he still has a very legit chance at becoming a lot better offensively. At the same time, if he merely remains the same, he's still giving pretty close production that Dunleavy brings.

          Mike just doesn't really bring a whole lot to the table. He's way more valuable as a trading piece than on-the-court production.

          I'm not sure what makes you think Brandon could average "at least" 11 points a game. He only averaged 9.4 pts per game last year at 30mpg.
          Also he only brought 4 rpg and 1.7 apg. Granted, its only 3 games, but Dunleavy pulling down nearly 7 rpg.

          Even though, I'll argue Mike has better stats, its not about stats. If Rush isn't shooting a 3, he is not participating in the offense. No cuts, no movement, nothing. In fact, his man gets to take each play off on defense. Or at least I hope he does, because otherwise we're playing 4 on 5.

          You are correct, Mike will never average 19ppg again. But I think he will end this year averaging 13 to 15. But Mike doesn't need to score to be effective. His motion helps the offense, it causes late rotations and switches allowing someone to capitalize. Until I see something different, IMO, Rush only contributes on that end of the floor if he hits an open 3.
          Last edited by Diamond Dave; 11-02-2010, 03:35 PM.
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          • #20
            Re: I still want Mike Dunleavy to start once Rush returns

            I really like Mike and want him to succeed. I thought the big year that he had a couple years ago showed how valuable he is. But in all three games this year, when MDJ is out there, I have wanted PG in there instead. I guess now I'd prefer PG start and MDJ come off the bench, and Rush play sparingly. Of course it makes no sense to start a rookie, etc. etc. so it would never happen.

            To the comparisons drawn in this post, I agree that MJD should be above Rush in the depth chart.

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            • #21
              Re: I still want Mike Dunleavy to start once Rush returns

              Originally posted by MTM View Post
              I really like Mike and want him to succeed. I thought the big year that he had a couple years ago showed how valuable he is. But in all three games this year, when MDJ is out there, I have wanted PG in there instead. I guess now I'd prefer PG start and MDJ come off the bench, and Rush play sparingly. Of course it makes no sense to start a rookie, etc. etc. so it would never happen.

              To the comparisons drawn in this post, I agree that MJD should be above Rush in the depth chart.
              why not?? i want the best players out there i dont care if they are 20 yr vets or rookies. PG24 should be starting in front of mike because the defense he brings along side danny.(until Brush comes back)

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              • #22
                Re: I still want Mike Dunleavy to start once Rush returns

                Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                Mike just doesn't really bring a whole lot to the table. He's way more valuable as a trading piece than on-the-court production.
                Frankly, this is the type of comment that totally confuses me. If Mike does not bring "a whole lot to the table", how is it possible that he is "way more valuable as a trading piece".

                I can't see that both of these statements could possibly be true. Considering his salary, the only way that Mike could be "way more valuable as a trading piece" would be if he indeed does bring quite a bit to the table.

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                • #23
                  Re: I still want Mike Dunleavy to start once Rush returns

                  Originally posted by Diamond Dave View Post

                  Even though, I'll argue Mike has better stats, its not about stats. If Rush isn't shooting a 3, he is not participating in the offense. No cuts, no movement, nothing. In fact, his man gets to take each play off on defense. Or at least I hope he does, because otherwise we're playing 4 on 5.
                  Rush shot 41% from three last year. The other team's defense HAS to respect his ability to shoot the ball. The idea that we are playing 4 on 5 with him on the floor is just flat out incorrect. He isn't Jeff Foster.
                  "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

                  - ilive4sports

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                  • #24
                    Re: I still want Mike Dunleavy to start once Rush returns

                    Dunleavy is one of the few veterans we have on this roster, and his experience is needed. He knows what he is doing on the court, and will do whatever it takes for his team to win. undertands the "team" concept. Rush is still young and unproven, PG is too raw now. If we want to continue winning, Dunleavy is the guy at SG.

                    If we start losing big, then Leavy needs to take a seat so PG and Rush can develop. You got to strike the iron while its hot, and Dunleavy looks like a really good fit with this young group.

                    People ripping Dunleavy here really don't know the game of basketball.
                    Being unable to close out a game in which you have a comfortable lead in the 4th Q = Pulling a Frank Vogel

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                    • #25
                      Re: I still want Mike Dunleavy to start once Rush returns

                      Originally posted by bhaas0532 View Post
                      Dunleavy is one of the few veterans we have on this roster, and his experience is needed. He knows what he is doing on the court, and will do whatever it takes for his team to win. undertands the "team" concept. Rush is still young and unproven, PG is too raw now. If we want to continue winning, Dunleavy is the guy at SG.

                      If we start losing big, then Leavy needs to take a seat so PG and Rush can develop. You got to strike the iron while its hot, and Dunleavy looks like a really good fit with this young group.

                      People ripping Dunleavy here really don't know the game of basketball.
                      All i know is that Defense wins chapionships and Dunleavy doesnt play defense

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                      • #26
                        Re: I still want Mike Dunleavy to start once Rush returns

                        Infinite MAN_force your avatar is really funny and it goes great because of his lack of defense

                        im glad murphy isnt a pacer anymore maybe you should make one for mike dunleavy
                        In 49 states it's just basketball, but this is Indiana!

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                        • #27
                          Re: I still want Mike Dunleavy to start once Rush returns

                          Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                          Well Mike is been here for three years and I have seen that happening many times, the only difference now is that we don't have Murphy anymore to blame him for the lost.

                          Mike is as bad as a defender as Murphy, he used to be better but now after the surgery he got even worse(he is equal now)

                          Edit: also Mike was shooting the pacers out of the game in the last three games, his missed shots are the main reason why the Sixers stay in the game.
                          yes you have that right

                          its unfortunate that dunleavy randomly had a bad knee problem otherwise he would still be a great player

                          i wonder if a guy like michael redd who had the same knee problem as dunleavy will be good again

                          redd was always a better player anyway so i think he might the bucks are lucky
                          In 49 states it's just basketball, but this is Indiana!

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                          • #28
                            Re: I still want Mike Dunleavy to start once Rush returns

                            Originally posted by pacer4ever View Post
                            All i know is that Defense wins chapionships and Dunleavy doesnt play defense
                            That just isn't true, I think Mike's team defense which I consider to be 50% of "defense" is as good as any player on the Pacers team.

                            And I fully expect Mike's three point shooting to rise to around 40% before too much longer.

                            As long as Mike can physically play around 32 minutes per game, I would like to see hiom play between 30-34 minutes per night. if we play the heat with Wade and lebron at the 2 and 3, then sure play Mike maybe 25 minutes and play Rush more to help defend one of those two guys. but if the opponent doesn't have a a good scorer at the two or three, then I say play Mike 32 minutes.
                            Last edited by Unclebuck; 11-02-2010, 04:06 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Re: I still want Mike Dunleavy to start once Rush returns

                              Originally posted by Diamond Dave View Post
                              I'm not sure what makes you think Brandon could average "at least" 11 points a game. He only averaged 9.4 pts per game last year at 30mpg.
                              Also he only brought 4 rpg and 1.7 apg. Granted, its only 3 games, but Dunleavy pulling down nearly 7 rpg.

                              Even though, I'll argue Mike has better stats, its not about stats. If Rush isn't shooting a 3, he is not participating in the offense. No cuts, no movement, nothing. In fact, his man gets to take each play off on defense. Or at least I hope he does, because otherwise we're playing 4 on 5.

                              You are correct, Mike will never average 19ppg again. But I think he will end this year averaging 13 to 15. But Mike doesn't need to score to be effective. His motion helps the offense, it causes late rotations and switches allowing someone to capitalize. Until I see something different, IMO, Rush only contributes on that end of the floor if he hits an open 3.
                              Rush average 9.4 points in his second year in the NBA and Mike average 9.9 points last year in his 8th season, yeah give me Rush.
                              @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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                              • #30
                                Re: I still want Mike Dunleavy to start once Rush returns

                                Originally posted by Robert Swift View Post
                                yes you have that right

                                its unfortunate that dunleavy randomly had a bad knee problem otherwise he would still be a great player

                                i wonder if a guy like michael redd who had the same knee problem as dunleavy will be good again

                                redd was always a better player anyway so i think he might the bucks are lucky
                                i agree 100% mike tries but just isnt good on defense anymore which is kind of sad. If this was 3yrs ago and he was still lateral quick enoght i woulnt have a problem with him starting but he is not.

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