Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 116

Thread: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

  1. #76
    Member lil lebowsky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    40

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I really don't think he's been that bad. There is a tremendous backlash on this board to the veterans in general, outside of Danny. We want to look for the good in the young guys and pump rainbows up their asses, so we look the other way when Paul George makes a dumb foul or loses his handle as he drives to the lane. But every time Dunleavy misses a shot or gets beat on defense, we are all over him about it. I think he has done some nice things for us. He moves well without the ball on offense, even last night in the fourth quarter when everyone else was standing around watching Danny. His defense is pretty bad, but he has been rebounding the ball decently and is in the mix for a bunch more. I'll be happy with him being in the second unit when Rush gets back, because a 6th man role is perfect for him.
    I completely agree! "Pump rainbows up their asses" That's great man, that sounds like something Coach Knight would say.

    Putting Rush in the lineup with guys like Granger, Collison, and Hibbert makes a lot of sense. It's similar to McKey when he was with Reggie, Jackson, and Smits. Those three guys could concentrate on the points and running the offense and McKey could just rebound, D up, and hit open jumpers. Rush to me, can provide much of the same. From all accounts Rush had a great summer, before the positive drug test of course.

    Mike Dunleavey has not looked that bad to me, the one negative is his jumper is consistently short from 3 pt. land. It looks like he's not using his legs enough, he's being lazy with his 3 ball. I trust he'll get it corrected.

    Honestly i bet most people don't even notice his bad D, they just constantly ***** about it b/c everybody else does. Mike is just a big 6'9" guy that's not real quick laterally, or a physical defender. I still think he does the best he can. On offense he is great without the basketball, and a good cutter, passer, and ball handler for his size. He'll be ok, i think.

    cheers

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to lil lebowsky For This Useful Post:


  3. #77
    Parachromis HC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Hartford City
    Age
    32
    Posts
    1,805
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Dunleavy has looked more like himself 3 years ago in the last 3 games than he did at any point during his 20 some games last year. Dunleavy isn't the best defender, but I like what he brings. He stays active, and in my opinion makes the other players on the floor with him better. His shot is going to fall eventually I think. I actually undersand where the angst for him comes from here in this forumn. What I don't understand is the extent to which this angst exists. Some of the statements in this thread, as well as others, about Dunleavy are the same as your evaluations of him......garbage
    "No one else can see the preservation of the martyr in me" -- Corey Taylor

  4. #78
    Release Psycho T pwee31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    7,171

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Dunleavy has had some really good looks. He had 16 and 9 last night, and could have easily broken 20 if his 3 ball was falling. If he gets that going, he's going to be even more valuable.

    I also don't think anyone on our team gets easier layups than Dunleavy. His off the ball cuts are amazing

  5. #79

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yeah, I really think Paul could be an all star in a couple years. He is like Ron Artest lite. A smaller version. He isn't going to overpower anyone like Ron, but he has an amazing knack for deflections and passing lanes. And his offensive game is so smooth. The future is bright with that kid. I like him like 500x more than Lance.
    I really like George's defensive potential - I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility he becomes a Ron Artest level of defender - , but right now he may be a bigger defensive liability then Dunleavy. Hard to say, their weaknesses and strengths are very different. But I think most coaches would rather live with Dunleavy's defensive mistakes than with Paul George's.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to cordobes For This Useful Post:


  7. #80

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by cordobes View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I really like George's defensive potential - I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility he becomes a Ron Artest level of defender - , but right now he may be a bigger defensive liability then Dunleavy. Hard to say, their weaknesses and strengths are very different. But I think most coaches would rather live with Dunleavy's defensive mistakes than with Paul George's.
    Right, they are opposites. I agree with you, Dun might be slow and old and what not, but he is usually in the right spot. George has all the skills, and as soon as he gets it and is a step ahead mentally in the D rotations then Mike needs to be on the bench for good.

    Really I'd like to see Dun out there with Paul in the 2nd unit. He can help the young fella alot by telling him what he is missing and where to be during the game.

  8. #81
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    45
    Posts
    17,000

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    It is funny that "young and not very good" means GREAT POTENTIAL!! GIVE HIM MINUTES! and "old and not very good" means, SIT THAT BUM ON THE BENCH!

    And I can get caught up in that myself.

    George deserves limited minutes right now because he looks like he can be a great scorer. Anybody projecting anything great from him on the defensive end right now is using their creative imagination. Its just as reasonable right now to say that his defense could also end up at about the same level as other great offensive SFs like... Rose and Person.

    Because, frankly, they're both hurting us with their one-on-one defense. At least Dunleavy knows how to play team defense.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  9. #82

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Because, frankly, they're both hurting us with their one-on-one defense. At least Dunleavy knows how to play team defense.
    Hmm.. depends on what you mean by one-on-one defense.

    Paul George's on-the-ball defense has been excellent for a rookie - hence why I think he can be a marquis defender in the future. Great length/quickness combination and he seems to like to play defense. He has laps of concentration, but that's to be expected. He played very good defense on Ginobili's pick'n'rolls, for example.

    Off-the-ball... there's where he's appallingly bad, as, like many young players, he gets caught looking at the ball too much and his man can have a field day cutting on his back.

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to cordobes For This Useful Post:


  11. #83

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Here are some examples of where Paul George really needs to be drilled defensively.




    Hill initiates the offense and he's with Manu. Already looking at the ball.



    Manu watches the game, Paul watches the ball.



    The Spurs identify the opportunity. Ginobili starts to cut, McDyess settles the screen. George is still completely unaware of what's about to happen.



    Manu with a free path to attack the middle. Dunleavy steps inside to help. Wide open 3 pointer to Jefferson, one of the best shots in the game.

  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to cordobes For This Useful Post:


  13. #84
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lifelong Indy-area resident
    Age
    62
    Posts
    4,667

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by cordobes View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Here are some examples of where Paul George really needs to be drilled defensively...

    Manu with a free path to attack the middle. Dunleavy steps inside to help. Wide open 3 pointer to Jefferson, one of the best shots in the game.
    Thanks for providing the summary. Now, just for grins, if everyone can be honest.... How many folks watched the same play that the 4 jpegs define, and were clueless regarding George's fault and immediately considered that Dunleavy was out of position and not doing his job?

    I honestly believe that this is some of the problem on the board. Dunleavey IS a decent team defender, but will certainly look bad at times when his man scores as he attempts to cover for others.

    It would have been easy to see that George had a problem if Ginobli simply would have pulled up for the 3 himself. But I think a lot of folks would realize that George was out of position but that he simply "got away with one" since his man did not score. Unfortunately, they do not see the entire problem, that George's man was allowed to create an opportunity for a teammate when Dunleavy was forced to choose between the driver (Ginobli) and the corner man.

  14. #85

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?



    Assigned to Hill. The Spurs run a screen to free Tim Duncan on the wing.



    Even though there's no good reason, he simply forgets about his man and moves ballside, while the Pacers align their help-line on the weakside. Hill starts a deep cut, from the weakside wing all the way to the ballside baseline.



    Duncan passes back to Parker and screens Hibbert, preventing him from helping. Hill sets his feet and gets the pass from Parker. Paul George is still attacking the ball with no hopes of coming close to it.



    Another open corner 3. McRoberts compounds the mistake by closing out of control and fouling Hill. Four point play and the game is over.

    ---------------



    Assigned to Gerald Wallace, offense starting on the left floor with a small pick'n'pop.



    Hibbert drops down to zone, Collison recovers well. Nazr gets the ball 19 feet out, too far away for him to shoot. Paul George is already hypnotized by the ball. Wallace gets ready to cut to the basket.





    Nazr receives the ball and passes to the perimeter. Wallace completes the cut and Dunleavy is forced to pick him up to protect the middle. Hansbrough does a good job closing out. However, George is already lost. His first instinct, on film, is to go after the ball, attacking Hansbrough's man. Then he hesitates between getting back to his man or rotating to the corner.



    It's too late though, Brown drives on him recovering, draws a foul and goes to the line to shoot 2 free-throws.

  15. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to cordobes For This Useful Post:


  16. #86

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Great work, cordobes. Keep 'em coming. He had a couple of nice team defensive plays in the Spurs game, but he needs a lot of work. Luckily he recovers on defense at an incredibly fast rate, so his mistakes will be masked sooner than most rookies.

    I also think you can do the same thing with S. Jones and Dunleavy from the Spurs game...not as frequently for Dunleavy, but he made some mental errors.

  17. #87
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In a Gym
    Age
    22
    Posts
    16,876
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by cordobes View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote


    Assigned to Hill. The Spurs run a screen to free Tim Duncan on the wing.

    What is wrong wit this??


    Even though there's no good reason, he simply forgets about his man and moves ballside, while the Pacers align their help-line on the weakside. Hill starts a deep cut, from the weakside wing all the way to the ballside baseline.


    Danny slides down in JOB's system


    Duncan passes back to Parker and screens Hibbert, preventing him from helping. Hill sets his feet and gets the pass from Parker. Paul George is still attacking the ball with no hopes of coming close to it.



    Another open corner 3. McRoberts compounds the mistake by closing out of control and fouling Hill. Four point play and the game is over.

    ---------------



    Assigned to Gerald Wallace, offense starting on the left floor with a small pick'n'pop.



    Hibbert drops down to zone, Collison recovers well. Nazr gets the ball 19 feet out, too far away for him to shoot. Paul George is already hypnotized by the ball. Wallace gets ready to cut to the basket.





    Nazr receives the ball and passes to the perimeter. Wallace completes the cut and Dunleavy is forced to pick him up to protect the middle. Hansbrough does a good job closing out. However, George is already lost. His first instinct, on film, is to go after the ball, attacking Hansbrough's man. Then he hesitates between getting back to his man or rotating to the corner.



    It's too late though, Brown drives on him recovering, draws a foul and goes to the line to shoot 2 free-throws.

    what is wrong with the gearld wallce play u want him to guard him at halfcourt (gerald is not a great shooter he is a driver)??? most of these are because that is the way we play defense in JOBs system.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 10-31-2010 at 09:10 PM.

  18. #88

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    The entire play happened because George kept his head on the ball, allowing Wallace a free cut to the basket, which misaligned our entire defense and left us out of position.

    This series was created by Paul's mistake, not a hole in O'Brien's philosophy. There is no room for interpretation on this one.
    Last edited by imawhat; 10-31-2010 at 09:11 PM.

  19. #89
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by cordobes View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Here are some examples of where Paul George really needs to be drilled defensively.




    Hill initiates the offense and he's with Manu. Already looking at the ball.



    Manu watches the game, Paul watches the ball.



    The Spurs identify the opportunity. Ginobili starts to cut, McDyess settles the screen. George is still completely unaware of what's about to happen.



    Manu with a free path to attack the middle. Dunleavy steps inside to help. Wide open 3 pointer to Jefferson, one of the best shots in the game.
    Totally agree that he needs to stop staring at the ball, but given how much Jim O'Brien values protecting the paint, isn't it possible he's been coached to stand there near the paint and to first worry about keeping the ball from being passed in there?

  20. #90
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Danberry
    Age
    55
    Posts
    12,048

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Totally agree that he needs to stop staring at the ball, but given how much Jim O'Brien values protecting the paint, isn't it possible he's been coached to stand there near the paint and to first worry about keeping the ball from being passed in there?
    Ignoring the standard "any time a player does something not fundamental he must have been coached to do that by JOB", just watching the ball is not going to let you prevent the pass either if you aren't aware of the passing lane. Someone without the ball will get position and if you don't know where they are you don't know where the ball is going. Defense isn't about where the ball IS, it is about where it WILL BE.
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to BillS For This Useful Post:


  22. #91
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Ignoring the standard "any time a player does something not fundamental he must have been coached to do that by JOB",
    That line shouldn't be directed at me. You know I'm not part of that pack. And furthermore, it's not a knock on O'Brien to point out that he has made it abundantly clear for years on end that he highly values defending/protecting the paint at 'all costs.' It's an understandable philosophy he obviously believes strongly in.

    just watching the ball is not going to let you prevent the pass either if you aren't aware of the passing lane. Someone without the ball will get position and if you don't know where they are you don't know where the ball is going. Defense isn't about where the ball IS, it is about where it WILL BE.
    Which would be why I said that I agree he shouldn't be staring at the ball.

    I have no idea why you quoted/responded to my post.

  23. #92
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    45
    Posts
    17,000

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    My new employer blocks all streaming videos. So I'll look at these tonight. But this is the stuff that makes this board great.

    I remember a handful of the plays already, and some of what we are going to see is why George should be playing against forwards, not guards. "He recovers quickly" also means, "he's getting burned and somebody else is likely to be covering for him".

    In fact, he probably doesn't need to recover quickly, he probably needs to know where to rotate quickly because somebody is probably already moving in to cover for him.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  24. #93
    Member Jon Theodore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Age
    29
    Posts
    1,762

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    I agree Chicago J, this board really is incredible. This thread has actually opened up my eyes about Paul's defense. I have fallen in love with his man to man defense and hustle plays, but the truth is he is not a good team defender and Dunleavy is (its not a myth, I have seen it).

    Paul will learn, I am not worried about that one bit. HE has all the skills to be fantastic on the defensive end, he just needs to gain the awareness which will come with time.
    *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

  25. #94
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In a Gym
    Age
    22
    Posts
    16,876
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Theodore View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I agree Chicago J, this board really is incredible. This thread has actually opened up my eyes about Paul's defense. I have fallen in love with his man to man defense and hustle plays, but the truth is he is not a good team defender and Dunleavy is (its not a myth, I have seen it).

    Paul will learn, I am not worried about that one bit. HE has all the skills to be fantastic on the defensive end, he just needs to gain the awareness which will come with time.
    thats my point mike D cant help he isnt a geat defender he tries but just doesnt have the tools. But Paul has all the tools to be a lockdown defender in the future and he will get there pretty quck.

  26. #95
    Yeah, I'm a Pacers fan. MyFavMartin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    In the Washington DC area
    Posts
    4,320
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    what do you guys think of extending mike for something like 3 years and $15 mill ($6, $5, and $4 mill)?

  27. #96
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyFavMartin View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    what do you guys think of extending mike for something like 3 years and $15 mill ($6, $5, and $4 mill)?

  28. #97
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,150

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I gotta agree. I think Paul has the potential to be better than Danny. Kid certainly is better than Granger was when he was 20. He looks mature beyond his years out there, which is funny, cause I thought in the summer league and in pre season he looked lost most of the time. But he played a good one tonight and I hope he can continue to build on that.
    You could see immediately that the physical gifts were there and immense.
    Then he quickly showed effort and extreme quickness on defense.
    He's only played wing for TWO years now, so he's still learning the position WHILE being a rookie that's playing immediately in the NBA.
    His shot had been off and he'd looked lost at times.
    But the jumper is s double M OOTH and only a matter of time of time till he gets his confidence up and then look out.
    The next big step after hitting the jumpers consistantly will be to start putting the ball on the floor and using that world class quckness to blow by guys and get to the rim for some high wire acrobatics.

  29. #98

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyFavMartin View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    what do you guys think of extending mike for something like 3 years and $15 mill ($6, $5, and $4 mill)?
    As much love as I have given Mike in the latter half of this thead, I think that would be a horrible mistake. With his age and injury risk, along with the inconsistant shooting and questionable defensive skill (not team D, but quickness) it's a bad idea.

  30. #99
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,912

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    From what I have seen, I think Geroge will be one of the best wing defenders in the NBA within his third season in the NBA. He has instincts for defense and instincts for the ball that cannot be taught. He also has a lot of lateral quickness that cannot be taught. He can be taught team defense and better NBA technique - he just needs to play.

    My position on Mike's defense has been the same for however long he has been here. His team defense is the best on the team and he has the highest basketball IQ defensively on the team. Sure he gives up a lot of lateral quickness and he is often too tall to guard who he is guarding and yet too slight to guard bigger guys, so his one-on-one defense isn't good. In sum his defense as a whole is at worst a wash.

    Mike's threes are really short though, but he is getting wide open looks - he'll be fine on threes. Although I like him a few feet inside the three point line.

    Mike is what I call a glue guy. meaning he makes things work - makes the game easier for the other 4 players on the court and you really don't notice him until he's on the bench and you are trying to figure out why is the team not playing as well. His stats certainly don't begin to tell the whole story about his game
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 11-01-2010 at 01:55 PM.

  31. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Unclebuck For This Useful Post:


  32. #100
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In a Gym
    Age
    22
    Posts
    16,876
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    [QUOTE=Unclebuck;1087820]From what I have seen, I think Geroge will be one of the best wing defenders in the NBA within his third season in the NBA. He has instincts for defense and instincts for the ball that cannot be taught. He also has a lof of lateral quickness that cannot be taught. He can be taught team defense and better NBA technique.
    My position on Mike's defense has been the same for however long he has been here. His team defense is the best on the team and he has the highest basketball IQ defensively on the team. Sure he gives up a lot of lateral quickness and he is often too tall to guard who he is guarding and yet too slight to guard sibgger guys, so his one-on-one defense isn't good. In sum his defense as a whole is at worst a wash.[/QUOTE]

    ya i feel u he has all the tools he just needs more awareness sometimes. Which will come in time

Similar Threads

  1. tinsley to philly; murphy to charlotte; dunleavy to utah
    By wintermute in forum Trade Proposals
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-12-2008, 03:36 AM
  2. Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...
    By Major Cold in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 2039
    Last Post: 06-27-2008, 11:43 PM
  3. Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives
    By GrangerRanger in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 03-08-2008, 10:16 AM
  4. Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?
    By Young in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 03-06-2008, 04:58 PM
  5. Dunleavy says that Offense is Better When he is involved
    By andreialta in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 11-30-2007, 01:06 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •