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Thread: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Dunleavy with his passing, his rebounding, his execution, showed why he belonged in the the first unit tonight. His team defense was super tonight- i think tonight showed how good his team defense (and system itself) can be at it's best.

    It should only get better.

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    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by flox View Post
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    Dunleavy with his passing, his rebounding, his execution, showed why he belonged in the the first unit tonight. His team defense was super tonight- i think tonight showed how good his team defense (and system itself) can be at it's best.

    It should only get better.
    Well.... I think that the first 3 games are indicative of the conversation that we will have on the board all season long regarding Dunleavy.

    Those that are peeved that he is playing in front of younger players will complain after each game where they believe Dunleavy's performance is subpar. Constant reminders of the previous 2 seasons will often be part of the conversation.

    Those that can appreciate Dunleavy's contributions and accept that like all other players, he will sometimes strive for consistency, will try to temper complaints about Dunleavy by sprinkling in a few positive comments.

    With respect to Dunleavy and the dialog that is certain to be centered around him, all I can say is that this will be a long season.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Theodore View Post
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    I think the Dunleavy hate on this board is incredible. Sure he is not our best player, but he does a lot of things that help this team. Mainly, he is an excellent passer. I can think of two plays where he made excellent passes that lead to a score (not necessarily an assist, but a great pass within the flow of the offense that lead to a bucket)

    His alley oop pass to McRoberts last night was PERFECT. TJ Ford could of converted that alley oop, the pass was so good .

    Also, his three point shooting is questionable at times but i'd rather him be confident than deal with Brandon Rush being scared to take two steps.

    Dunleavy is also an excellent team defender. Bottom line is he may be the best passer on this team not named Collison. Our offense has looked VERY GOOD the first two games and passing is a big reason for that. When you have Collison, Dunleavy, and Roy on the floor together you have three VERY GOOD passers on the floor. Watch when Dunleavy passes the ball to Granger, he always hits Granger RIGHT where he is ready to shoot, it is a thing of beauty that apparently is missed by most viewers. (Not saying I am some excellent basketball analyst, but I do pay attention to passing)

    I think Dunleavy needs to be coming off the bench playing 15-20 min a game max. I think with the second unit he could probably be more effective as a facilitator/scorer. He is always going to make the right pass and put guys in a good position to score (that is assuming players are moving, screening, cutting, etc.) IT has been said by other posters, but Dunleavy is a player whose stat line rarely tells the whole story, similar to Foster (whose great defense often doesn't show up on a stat line)
    This guy his horrible on Defense if i was the coach he would sit his *** on the bench. Evan Turner was making him look silly. He is a major liablity when he is on the court part of the reason Roy gets into foul trouble is poor defense on the premiter.

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    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by flox View Post
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    Dunleavy with his passing, his rebounding, his execution, showed why he belonged in the the first unit tonight. His team defense was super tonight- i think tonight showed how good his team defense (and system itself) can be at it's best.

    It should only get better.
    LOL we weren't watching the same game. He gave up more points than he scored. His close out defense is unbearable and his 1on1 defense is even worse

  5. #55
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    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    I respect that Dunleavy can catch fire sometimes. I would like to see it more though. Tonight's one for seven (I believe) behind the ark was awful. I know shooting isn't everything, but his defense is terrible, he is unathletic, and can't create his own shot. Overall he just doesn't contribute like Brandon Rush or Paul George would.

  6. #56

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    The IND/PHI replay is on right now on fox sports. I'm gonna check it out and pay attention to Mike. From what I remember, Mike got beat a few times, but he also keeps things moving on offense. Where he is one step slow on D he is usually one step ahead on O, and our team needs that from someone other than the point guard. He did have some quick hands on a few plays too. He got his hands on the ball on a few drives.

    He had some great cuts and he was rebounding well tonight too, but alot of those were "Murphy" rebs. He did grab a couple tough ones though. He shot terrible, but I thought he was a positive effect in the game tonight overall.
    Last edited by PaceBalls; 10-30-2010 at 11:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    LOL we weren't watching the same game. He gave up more points than he scored. His close out defense is unbearable and his 1on1 defense is even worse
    Ok man, after watching most of the replay I have to say you are totally wrong. I hope you got to watch it too.

    Mike played great this game. His defense was really good. There were a few times I saw where he made a great defensive play and then ended up looking bad because his teammates didn't rotate properly, but are we going to blame him for not taking a blocking foul? He isn't exactly Dale Davis the enforcer out there, ready to punish the opposition.

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    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    Ok man, after watching most of the replay I have to say you are totally wrong. I hope you got to watch it too.

    Mike played great this game. His defense was really good. There were a few times I saw where he made a great defensive play and then ended up looking bad because his teammates didn't rotate properly, but are we going to blame him for not taking a blocking foul? He isn't exactly Dale Davis the enforcer out there, ready to punish the opposition.
    i was at the game i watched mike for a good 5 mins ( just him on d) he is horrid. I am watching the replay he is so slow and evan turner shakes him but missed some easy buckets. Iggy ate him up but u can say i am wrong i dont really care i know wat i saw. Paul plays 100times better defense than mike d.

  10. #59

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    i was at the game i watched mike for a good 5 mins ( just him on d) he is horrid. I am watching the replay he is so slow and evan turner shakes him but missed some easy buckets. Iggy ate him up but u can say i am wrong i dont really care i know wat i saw. Paul plays 100times better defense than mike d.
    Yeah, just as far as skill goes and having good hands... Paul is the best on the team.

    But there is more to it than that.

    I am not saying Mike does this every game, but it seemed, to me, he did a great job of staying in front of his man the majority of the time. He had some great defensive plays that I saw.

    I wish NBA league pass wasn't so lame with the blackouts. I mean, a blackout is cool with a live broadcast, but can't they at least archive the game? I'd love to be able to review it in depth with you.

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    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    Yeah, just as far as skill goes and having good hands... Paul is the best on the team.

    But there is more to it than that.

    I am not saying Mike does this every game, but it seemed, to me, he did a great job of staying in front of his man the majority of the time. He had some great defensive plays that I saw.

    I wish NBA league pass wasn't so lame with the blackouts. I mean, a blackout is cool with a live broadcast, but can't they at least archive the game? I'd love to be able to review it in depth with you.
    ya that pisses me off league pass. But he got shook quite a bit. Mike cant help he is bad on defense at least he tries but i just hope Brush starts instead of mike. We need a good wing defender mike and danny are very poor. Then on the 2nd unit Paul would be the lead defender at the SG and mike would be the scorer at the SF. also it might be easier for mike to guard SF's

  12. #61

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Yeah, I really think Paul could be an all star in a couple years. He is like Ron Artest lite. A smaller version. He isn't going to overpower anyone like Ron, but he has an amazing knack for deflections and passing lanes. And his offensive game is so smooth. The future is bright with that kid. I like him like 500x more than Lance.

  13. #62
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    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Which is why +/- is a horrible way to judge a player. He was on the floor most of the time with Posey/Solo. Of course his +/- wasn't spectacular.
    Look at tonight's game... especially the first half. TJ Ford absolutely killed the team/ offense in the second quarter with his inept offense and lazy defense. The Sixers went on a huge run. When DC was in, we were in control and Hibbert was a monster.

    End result was that Ford only had a -3. But if you watched the game, and the difference in the quality of play with DC and with TJ, you would have expected this particular statistic to be much more dramatic (if at actually worked as advertised. Although, most of us on PD realize it doesn't actually work as advertised...)

    As for the main point of this thread, I like watching Mike play... especially away from the ball. He's a smart player. I'll buy Anthem's point that he's not a great fit with the starters. That's Rush's fault. And tonight, he gave what you'd want from your sixth man at home. And so did Tyler. And that's a big part of why this was never close down the stretch (even if the Sixers are bad... we didn't play down to their level either.)
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    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Look at tonight's game... especially the first half. TJ Ford absolutely killed the team/ offense in the second quarter with his inept offense and lazy defense. The Sixers went on a huge run. When DC was in, we were in control and Hibbert was a monster.

    End result was that Ford only had a -3. But if you watched the game, and the difference in the quality of play with DC and with TJ, you would have expected this particular statistic to be much more dramatic (if at actually worked as advertised. Although, most of us on PD realize it doesn't actually work as advertised...)

    As for the main point of this thread, I like watching Mike play... especially away from the ball. He's a smart player. I'll buy Anthem's point that he's not a great fit with the starters. That's Rush's fault. And tonight, he gave what you'd want from your sixth man at home. And so did Tyler. And that's a big part of why this was never close down the stretch (even if the Sixers are bad... we didn't play down to their level either.)
    noting we didnt already know. i still cant understand why job put him in with 6min left in the game

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    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Theodore View Post
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    I think the Dunleavy hate on this board is incredible. Sure he is not our best player, but he does a lot of things that help this team. Mainly, he is an excellent passer. I can think of two plays where he made excellent passes that lead to a score (not necessarily an assist, but a great pass within the flow of the offense that lead to a bucket)

    His alley oop pass to McRoberts last night was PERFECT. TJ Ford could of converted that alley oop, the pass was so good .

    Also, his three point shooting is questionable at times but i'd rather him be confident than deal with Brandon Rush being scared to take two steps.

    Dunleavy is also an excellent team defender. Bottom line is he may be the best passer on this team not named Collison. Our offense has looked VERY GOOD the first two games and passing is a big reason for that. When you have Collison, Dunleavy, and Roy on the floor together you have three VERY GOOD passers on the floor. Watch when Dunleavy passes the ball to Granger, he always hits Granger RIGHT where he is ready to shoot, it is a thing of beauty that apparently is missed by most viewers. (Not saying I am some excellent basketball analyst, but I do pay attention to passing)

    I think Dunleavy needs to be coming off the bench playing 15-20 min a game max. I think with the second unit he could probably be more effective as a facilitator/scorer. He is always going to make the right pass and put guys in a good position to score (that is assuming players are moving, screening, cutting, etc.) IT has been said by other posters, but Dunleavy is a player whose stat line rarely tells the whole story, similar to Foster (whose great defense often doesn't show up on a stat line)
    I think he does a few things you enjoy watching and over rate the importance of it. You cite like 3 plays and ignore the other 100+ where he did absolutely nothing. Other players can do what he does well and do other things much better. I've seen Paul George make more nice passes that lead to scores this season than Dunleavy. He has more assists is 12 less MPG.

    I love how people rate his "team" defense as "great" or even "good". It doesn't matter a lick if you can't guard your man. He is not a good defensive player in any sense of the word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    Ok man, after watching most of the replay I have to say you are totally wrong. I hope you got to watch it too.

    Mike played great this game. His defense was really good. There were a few times I saw where he made a great defensive play and then ended up looking bad because his teammates didn't rotate properly, but are we going to blame him for not taking a blocking foul? He isn't exactly Dale Davis the enforcer out there, ready to punish the opposition.
    When you get beat you blame your team mates for not bailing you out and making a perfect rotation? Do you know how hard that is? You don't want your defense to constantly rotate, you don't have a prayer to be good at it then. Dunleavy constantly gets beat off the dribble, he also routinely gets scored over by players 4-5 inches shorter than him. And he is an absolute non factor challenging shots despite being 6'10" and a capable athlete. Through 3 games, at 35 MPG, he has 2 blocks and 0 steals. Paul George has twice that in half the time. He makes a good play here and there but that is only because he constantly swipes at the ball or tries to do some stupid fake out move every single time someone drives at him. Good defenders take away baskets and Dun doesn't do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    Well.... I think that the first 3 games are indicative of the conversation that we will have on the board all season long regarding Dunleavy.

    Those that are peeved that he is playing in front of younger players will complain after each game where they believe Dunleavy's performance is subpar. Constant reminders of the previous 2 seasons will often be part of the conversation.

    Those that can appreciate Dunleavy's contributions and accept that like all other players, he will sometimes strive for consistency, will try to temper complaints about Dunleavy by sprinkling in a few positive comments.

    With respect to Dunleavy and the dialog that is certain to be centered around him, all I can say is that this will be a long season.
    It's only peoples opinions on why the team is winning or what needs to be done to win more. I don't understand why people get so butt hurt over stuff like that. It's just an opinion. And if you think about it, it's probably equally annoying for grown folks to constantly whine about it. I am not a fan of Dunleavy, and I never have been. I don't like the way he plays and I don't think he gives an honest consistent effort. I prefer someone who can affect the game at both ends more effectively. And there is nothing wrong with that.

    It's crazy how a guy can shoot the ball like crap and play lack luster defense, and you have a segment of the board who acts like you should be heaving praise all over him. They over rate every little thing he does and act like you're a complete idiot for wanting to give someone else a legit chance to show they can do better? Wow.

    How would you feel if you were the player behind him? Is it fair to them?
    Last edited by Taterhead; 10-31-2010 at 02:02 AM.

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  17. #65
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    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Unfortunately, Mike (and if not him, James Posey) will probably always get minutes at the 3 at Paul's expense.
    I don't think so. Paul is already starting to relax,and the jumper looks pretty sweet.
    Quinn predicted tonight he'll go off for 30pts.
    THIS year.
    He's going to be TOO good to keep on the bench.
    Count on it.
    We got really lucky.
    Again! (Danny)

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    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by MLB007 View Post
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    I don't think so. Paul is already starting to relax,and the jumper looks pretty sweet.
    Quinn predicted tonight he'll go off for 30pts.
    THIS year.
    He's going to be TOO good to keep on the bench.
    Count on it.
    We got really lucky.
    Again! (Danny)
    I gotta agree. I think Paul has the potential to be better than Danny. Kid certainly is better than Granger was when he was 20. He looks mature beyond his years out there, which is funny, cause I thought in the summer league and in pre season he looked lost most of the time. But he played a good one tonight and I hope he can continue to build on that.

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    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    I'm with ChicagoJ in the fact that Dunleavy was pulling Murphy type rebounds, I think he had a decent game, tried to play D and tried to shoot the three but couldn't do it(one three pointer)

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    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    Ok man, after watching most of the replay I have to say you are totally wrong. I hope you got to watch it too.

    Mike played great this game. His defense was really good. There were a few times I saw where he made a great defensive play and then ended up looking bad because his teammates didn't rotate properly, but are we going to blame him for not taking a blocking foul? He isn't exactly Dale Davis the enforcer out there, ready to punish the opposition.
    Your right, Mike played great defense tonight. I was surprised his 3's weren't falling as well as he was playing, but they will come for sure.

  21. #69
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    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Mike is the new scapegoat. He played well tonight. He might not have played perfect defense, but it was not horrible. He got beat a few times, but he hustled and got rebounds. He shot was not falling, but he still got 16 points. If Mike is not in there I don't know how we make up those points.

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  23. #70
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    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    He doesn't get to the line, he doesn't shoot the ball well despite shooting a thousand threes, he doesn't play defense, and he blames players for his mistakes on occasion.

    However, he rebounds well for a shooting guard, he passes well, and moves without the ball.

    I think he'd be fine if we played him about 15 minutes a game as he is unique, but anything more than that is a stretch. If he is playing well, keep him in the game. If not, give the minutes to George or Rush, players that are just better.

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    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Dunleavy plays within the flow of the game. He doesn't disrupt it like Murphy did. His defense was much better than the first game, but so was Grangers. He rebounded well last night and even played around the basket when needed. I think he looked fine out there. Along with Collison, Granger, and Hibbert Dunleavy fits in pretty this early in the season.

    We are 2-1 people lets enjoy it a bit. JOB played the lineups that most people wanted last night, so we can even give him a break at least until Wednesday.

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  26. #72

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Everyone seems to have this opinion that Dunleavy is a terrible defender. Well...

    One-on-One, he's not going to stop most players. He's not going to get alot of steals. He's not going to get alot of deflections. He's certainly not going to block many shots, if any. But what he will do is bring strong, weakside help defense. What he does do is react very well to the ball and rotates defensively. He's a "team defense" player, not a 1-on-1 defensives stopper. More often than not, he will make his man change direction or take a challenged shot.

    Now, does he get lost out there sometimes? You bet! But so does Granger. I saw him miss a few defensive assignments, too. Dunleavy hasn't been beaten too badly by the players he's had to defend so far. I'd say that had his perimeter shots been falling, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Good offense usually trumps average or even bad defense. I'd say Dunleavy has average defense and could be a potent offensive weapon if his outside shots were falling.

    Give him time. He is playing some very solid, fundamental basketball. I'd leave him in as a starter and make BRush earn his minutes back. But Dunleavy's gonna have to regain his shooting touch if he wants to stay amongst the starters. It's the only way he'll lose his starting job - if JOB believes he has lost confidence in his shot and his teammates have lost confidence in him. So far, neither seem an issue at the moment.

  27. #73

    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    No one has established themselves as a better option for being the starter. I won't complain about Dunleavy until someone is overall better than he is. It would be nice if he would hit his wide open shots though... come on Dunleavy.

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    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by BBQ View Post
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    No one has established themselves as a better option for being the starter. I won't complain about Dunleavy until someone is overall better than he is. It would be nice if he would hit his wide open shots though... come on Dunleavy.
    LIke any player if he isn't preforming well you have to pull him out of the game. Last night he did some things well and he contributed so I have no problem with giving him 30 minutes.

    I am interested to see how Rush gels with the team. Defensively he is going to be an upgrade but offensively I think he might slow up the ball movement quit a bit.

  29. #75
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    Default Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    If Rush works out with 1st unit, MDJ, TH, PG on your second unit is a nice core to work from. If the opposite and Rush on 2nd unit, you've still got a good core, just tilted a bit more to the defensive side. Plus, I'd assume you'd get lots of mixing and matching.

    Personally, I like MDJ as sixth/seventh man, but obviously still with good minutes and contributions. I think his offensive pros are amplified and probably his on-ball defensive cons are somewhat minimized.

    If it becomes evident 1st unit struggles without him, lineups can always be reshuffled. Bottom line, we're going to need something consistently from both guys-BR/MDJ-to be successful this year. Whatever that translates to in lineup terms.
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