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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

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We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

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Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

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  • #76
    Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Originally posted by cdash View Post
    I really don't think he's been that bad. There is a tremendous backlash on this board to the veterans in general, outside of Danny. We want to look for the good in the young guys and pump rainbows up their asses, so we look the other way when Paul George makes a dumb foul or loses his handle as he drives to the lane. But every time Dunleavy misses a shot or gets beat on defense, we are all over him about it. I think he has done some nice things for us. He moves well without the ball on offense, even last night in the fourth quarter when everyone else was standing around watching Danny. His defense is pretty bad, but he has been rebounding the ball decently and is in the mix for a bunch more. I'll be happy with him being in the second unit when Rush gets back, because a 6th man role is perfect for him.
    I completely agree! "Pump rainbows up their asses" That's great man, that sounds like something Coach Knight would say.

    Putting Rush in the lineup with guys like Granger, Collison, and Hibbert makes a lot of sense. It's similar to McKey when he was with Reggie, Jackson, and Smits. Those three guys could concentrate on the points and running the offense and McKey could just rebound, D up, and hit open jumpers. Rush to me, can provide much of the same. From all accounts Rush had a great summer, before the positive drug test of course.

    Mike Dunleavey has not looked that bad to me, the one negative is his jumper is consistently short from 3 pt. land. It looks like he's not using his legs enough, he's being lazy with his 3 ball. I trust he'll get it corrected.

    Honestly i bet most people don't even notice his bad D, they just constantly ***** about it b/c everybody else does. Mike is just a big 6'9" guy that's not real quick laterally, or a physical defender. I still think he does the best he can. On offense he is great without the basketball, and a good cutter, passer, and ball handler for his size. He'll be ok, i think.

    cheers

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    • #77
      Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

      Dunleavy has looked more like himself 3 years ago in the last 3 games than he did at any point during his 20 some games last year. Dunleavy isn't the best defender, but I like what he brings. He stays active, and in my opinion makes the other players on the floor with him better. His shot is going to fall eventually I think. I actually undersand where the angst for him comes from here in this forumn. What I don't understand is the extent to which this angst exists. Some of the statements in this thread, as well as others, about Dunleavy are the same as your evaluations of him......garbage
      "The greatest thing you know Comes not from above but below" Danzig

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      • #78
        Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

        Dunleavy has had some really good looks. He had 16 and 9 last night, and could have easily broken 20 if his 3 ball was falling. If he gets that going, he's going to be even more valuable.

        I also don't think anyone on our team gets easier layups than Dunleavy. His off the ball cuts are amazing

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        • #79
          Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

          Originally posted by Thingfish View Post
          Yeah, I really think Paul could be an all star in a couple years. He is like Ron Artest lite. A smaller version. He isn't going to overpower anyone like Ron, but he has an amazing knack for deflections and passing lanes. And his offensive game is so smooth. The future is bright with that kid. I like him like 500x more than Lance.
          I really like George's defensive potential - I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility he becomes a Ron Artest level of defender - , but right now he may be a bigger defensive liability then Dunleavy. Hard to say, their weaknesses and strengths are very different. But I think most coaches would rather live with Dunleavy's defensive mistakes than with Paul George's.

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          • #80
            Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

            Originally posted by cordobes View Post
            I really like George's defensive potential - I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility he becomes a Ron Artest level of defender - , but right now he may be a bigger defensive liability then Dunleavy. Hard to say, their weaknesses and strengths are very different. But I think most coaches would rather live with Dunleavy's defensive mistakes than with Paul George's.
            Right, they are opposites. I agree with you, Dun might be slow and old and what not, but he is usually in the right spot. George has all the skills, and as soon as he gets it and is a step ahead mentally in the D rotations then Mike needs to be on the bench for good.

            Really I'd like to see Dun out there with Paul in the 2nd unit. He can help the young fella alot by telling him what he is missing and where to be during the game.

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            • #81
              Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

              It is funny that "young and not very good" means GREAT POTENTIAL!! GIVE HIM MINUTES! and "old and not very good" means, SIT THAT BUM ON THE BENCH!

              And I can get caught up in that myself.

              George deserves limited minutes right now because he looks like he can be a great scorer. Anybody projecting anything great from him on the defensive end right now is using their creative imagination. Its just as reasonable right now to say that his defense could also end up at about the same level as other great offensive SFs like... Rose and Person.

              Because, frankly, they're both hurting us with their one-on-one defense. At least Dunleavy knows how to play team defense.
              Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
              Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
              Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
              Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
              And life itself, rushing over me
              Life itself, the wind in black elms,
              Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

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              • #82
                Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

                Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post
                Because, frankly, they're both hurting us with their one-on-one defense. At least Dunleavy knows how to play team defense.
                Hmm.. depends on what you mean by one-on-one defense.

                Paul George's on-the-ball defense has been excellent for a rookie - hence why I think he can be a marquis defender in the future. Great length/quickness combination and he seems to like to play defense. He has laps of concentration, but that's to be expected. He played very good defense on Ginobili's pick'n'rolls, for example.

                Off-the-ball... there's where he's appallingly bad, as, like many young players, he gets caught looking at the ball too much and his man can have a field day cutting on his back.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

                  Here are some examples of where Paul George really needs to be drilled defensively.




                  Hill initiates the offense and he's with Manu. Already looking at the ball.



                  Manu watches the game, Paul watches the ball.



                  The Spurs identify the opportunity. Ginobili starts to cut, McDyess settles the screen. George is still completely unaware of what's about to happen.



                  Manu with a free path to attack the middle. Dunleavy steps inside to help. Wide open 3 pointer to Jefferson, one of the best shots in the game.

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                  • #84
                    Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

                    Originally posted by cordobes View Post
                    Here are some examples of where Paul George really needs to be drilled defensively...

                    Manu with a free path to attack the middle. Dunleavy steps inside to help. Wide open 3 pointer to Jefferson, one of the best shots in the game.
                    Thanks for providing the summary. Now, just for grins, if everyone can be honest.... How many folks watched the same play that the 4 jpegs define, and were clueless regarding George's fault and immediately considered that Dunleavy was out of position and not doing his job?

                    I honestly believe that this is some of the problem on the board. Dunleavey IS a decent team defender, but will certainly look bad at times when his man scores as he attempts to cover for others.

                    It would have been easy to see that George had a problem if Ginobli simply would have pulled up for the 3 himself. But I think a lot of folks would realize that George was out of position but that he simply "got away with one" since his man did not score. Unfortunately, they do not see the entire problem, that George's man was allowed to create an opportunity for a teammate when Dunleavy was forced to choose between the driver (Ginobli) and the corner man.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?



                      Assigned to Hill. The Spurs run a screen to free Tim Duncan on the wing.



                      Even though there's no good reason, he simply forgets about his man and moves ballside, while the Pacers align their help-line on the weakside. Hill starts a deep cut, from the weakside wing all the way to the ballside baseline.



                      Duncan passes back to Parker and screens Hibbert, preventing him from helping. Hill sets his feet and gets the pass from Parker. Paul George is still attacking the ball with no hopes of coming close to it.



                      Another open corner 3. McRoberts compounds the mistake by closing out of control and fouling Hill. Four point play and the game is over.

                      ---------------



                      Assigned to Gerald Wallace, offense starting on the left floor with a small pick'n'pop.



                      Hibbert drops down to zone, Collison recovers well. Nazr gets the ball 19 feet out, too far away for him to shoot. Paul George is already hypnotized by the ball. Wallace gets ready to cut to the basket.





                      Nazr receives the ball and passes to the perimeter. Wallace completes the cut and Dunleavy is forced to pick him up to protect the middle. Hansbrough does a good job closing out. However, George is already lost. His first instinct, on film, is to go after the ball, attacking Hansbrough's man. Then he hesitates between getting back to his man or rotating to the corner.



                      It's too late though, Brown drives on him recovering, draws a foul and goes to the line to shoot 2 free-throws.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

                        Great work, cordobes. Keep 'em coming. He had a couple of nice team defensive plays in the Spurs game, but he needs a lot of work. Luckily he recovers on defense at an incredibly fast rate, so his mistakes will be masked sooner than most rookies.

                        I also think you can do the same thing with S. Jones and Dunleavy from the Spurs game...not as frequently for Dunleavy, but he made some mental errors.

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                        • #87
                          Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

                          Originally posted by cordobes View Post


                          Assigned to Hill. The Spurs run a screen to free Tim Duncan on the wing.

                          What is wrong wit this??


                          Even though there's no good reason, he simply forgets about his man and moves ballside, while the Pacers align their help-line on the weakside. Hill starts a deep cut, from the weakside wing all the way to the ballside baseline.


                          Danny slides down in JOB's system


                          Duncan passes back to Parker and screens Hibbert, preventing him from helping. Hill sets his feet and gets the pass from Parker. Paul George is still attacking the ball with no hopes of coming close to it.



                          Another open corner 3. McRoberts compounds the mistake by closing out of control and fouling Hill. Four point play and the game is over.

                          ---------------



                          Assigned to Gerald Wallace, offense starting on the left floor with a small pick'n'pop.



                          Hibbert drops down to zone, Collison recovers well. Nazr gets the ball 19 feet out, too far away for him to shoot. Paul George is already hypnotized by the ball. Wallace gets ready to cut to the basket.





                          Nazr receives the ball and passes to the perimeter. Wallace completes the cut and Dunleavy is forced to pick him up to protect the middle. Hansbrough does a good job closing out. However, George is already lost. His first instinct, on film, is to go after the ball, attacking Hansbrough's man. Then he hesitates between getting back to his man or rotating to the corner.



                          It's too late though, Brown drives on him recovering, draws a foul and goes to the line to shoot 2 free-throws.

                          what is wrong with the gearld wallce play u want him to guard him at halfcourt (gerald is not a great shooter he is a driver)??? most of these are because that is the way we play defense in JOBs system.
                          Last edited by pacer4ever; 10-31-2010, 09:10 PM.

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                          • #88
                            Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

                            The entire play happened because George kept his head on the ball, allowing Wallace a free cut to the basket, which misaligned our entire defense and left us out of position.

                            This series was created by Paul's mistake, not a hole in O'Brien's philosophy. There is no room for interpretation on this one.
                            Last edited by imawhat; 10-31-2010, 09:11 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

                              Originally posted by cordobes View Post
                              Here are some examples of where Paul George really needs to be drilled defensively.




                              Hill initiates the offense and he's with Manu. Already looking at the ball.



                              Manu watches the game, Paul watches the ball.



                              The Spurs identify the opportunity. Ginobili starts to cut, McDyess settles the screen. George is still completely unaware of what's about to happen.



                              Manu with a free path to attack the middle. Dunleavy steps inside to help. Wide open 3 pointer to Jefferson, one of the best shots in the game.
                              Totally agree that he needs to stop staring at the ball, but given how much Jim O'Brien values protecting the paint, isn't it possible he's been coached to stand there near the paint and to first worry about keeping the ball from being passed in there?

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

                                Originally posted by Hicks View Post
                                Totally agree that he needs to stop staring at the ball, but given how much Jim O'Brien values protecting the paint, isn't it possible he's been coached to stand there near the paint and to first worry about keeping the ball from being passed in there?
                                Ignoring the standard "any time a player does something not fundamental he must have been coached to do that by JOB", just watching the ball is not going to let you prevent the pass either if you aren't aware of the passing lane. Someone without the ball will get position and if you don't know where they are you don't know where the ball is going. Defense isn't about where the ball IS, it is about where it WILL BE.
                                BillS

                                A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                                Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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