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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

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  • #16
    Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    Originally posted by beast23 View Post
    I wouldn't bet on that at all.

    Employees are fickle. Knowing that the vast majority of players would still be employeed, the majority would probably vote for salary retention and the hell with the players that would be dropped.

    As an example, consider the case of the GM stamping plant in Indy that recently closed. A buyer came forward and wanted to cut wages by 45%, but was also willing to provide fully paid medical/life insurance as well as fully paid penstion contributions. The net reduction for each employee would have been about 18%. The union employees voted against the deal, thinking that the prospective buyer would come back to them a fourth time with a better offer. The prospective buyer walked away from the deal.

    So, I would never count on a group of employees to do whatever is necessary to protect as many jobs as possible. A group will never accomplish that when each individual employee is out ot protect himself.
    That's the thing, most NBA players at some point will be that fringe guy hoping for a job. That would be looking out for themselves.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

      Originally posted by xBulletproof View Post
      That's the thing, most NBA players at some point will be that fringe guy hoping for a job. That would be looking out for themselves.
      That's the thing; I don't think the typical player looks that far down the road. I believe they are focused on how much they can make as quickly as possible, not knowing when that next injury might force them out of the game.

      They want as much as possible, as soon as possible. If that means that other players might be out of a job, that is perfectly fine with the typical player. After all "it could never happen to me", right?

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

        Originally posted by pacer4ever View Post
        I would cry if we got axed lol :eek
        Indianapolis is one of the largest cities in the U.S. A big market? No. A small market? No. At least, not in the way I understand the term. I'd be happy for someone to tell me why we are a small market team. I clearly understand that we are not a big market like NYC or LA, but really? One of the largest cities is small market? I don't understand.

        Besides, there are many "smaller" market venues in the league.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

          Originally posted by ryheathco View Post
          Indianapolis is one of the largest cities in the U.S. A big market? No. A small market? No. At least, not in the way I understand the term. I'd be happy for someone to tell me why we are a small market team. I clearly understand that we are not a big market like NYC or LA, but really? One of the largest cities is small market? I don't understand.

          Besides, there are many "smaller" market venues in the league.
          http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html


          This has Naptown ranked 14th in the US in 2009...

          On this list above Indy that does not have a BB team is...
          -Jacksonville(13th)
          -San Fransisco(12th)
          -San Jose(10th)
          -San Diego(8th)

          I dont see any of those teams getting a team out of the deal, I mean how many teams does California or Florida need....

          This would leave us with the 1lth largest market in the NBA(, I would bet that Toronto has a larger population than Indianapolis)... That puts up higher on the list than I thought...

          Edit - I do NOT believe that this factors in suburbs of these cities which would be important as well...
          Abba Zaba, your my only friend.

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          • #20
            Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

            If I were the guy running the whole show, I would probably want a few things to make the league more profitable and competitive for individual teams. There are a lot of things that could be done, but I would try to include the following:

            1. Contract by 6 teams, 1 from each division (Milwaukee, NJ, Charlotte, Memphis, Minnesota, Sacramento). Have a 3-round dispersal draft for the remaining 24 teams to select from among the 90 players.

            2. Reduce rosters to 14 players for the remaining 24 teams. Any team having a player that suffers a season-ending injury can sign a replacement player without having to release a player.

            The net effect from 1 & 2 would be to reduce the number of players from 450 to 336 across 24 teams, resulting in less total salary and better quality depth for each of the 24 teams. The remaining teams would probably be more competitive top to bottom than what now exists.

            3. Top 2 teams from each division make playoffs. Each conference then has a round-robin play-in to determine its final 2 playoff teams. This adds 5 games to each teams schedule, with some form of gate revenue splitting among the 6 teams. After the play-in round, playoffs take place in their present form.

            4. Reduce salaries across the board; reduce the salary cap, reduce minimum allowable team salary. Definitely set solid dollar caps on upper end salaries. Perhaps $10M to $12M.

            5. Significantly reduce the luxury tax threshhold. For example, if the salary cap were $42M, make the luxury tax threshhold about $47M. Add additional penalties besides the luxury tax to teams going over the threshhold. For example, exceeding the threshhold by a certain percentage might result in the loss of a second round draft choice. Exceeding it by a much higher percentage might also result in the loss of a first round draft choice as well.

            6. Guaranteed contracts for 2 years only, followed by up to 2 (team) optional years, followed by up to 1 (player) optional year.

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            • #21
              Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

              According to Wikipedia... Indy/Carmal is the 34th largest metropolitan area...


              34 Indianapolis-Carmel, IN MSA !B9856285042366 1,743,658 !B9857624268375 1,525,104 !D0019427847598 +14.33% Indianapolis-Anderson-Columbus, IN CSA







              Abba Zaba, your my only friend.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

                Scary. Contraction after a lockout, and in my view, to 24 teams. I assume that would take roughly 20% of the salary costs out of the league, and strategically done wouldn't have nearly as much negative impact on revenue (I am guessing half of that). If so, that still leaves a net of roughly 23% apart to somehow be bridged. Assuming the owners are willing to take a small hit of about 10%, the players would have to make some significant concessions to get the deal done, and my guess is that it is 1998 all over again, or possibly an entire missed season, though that would be a significant blow to the league, especially during the prime of the Heat and one of Kobe's last high level seasons.

                Buckle up. This ride is about to get very bumpy IMO.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

                  While I'll never say anything is impossible, Stern is just using the threat of contraction as another bargaining chip.

                  The players union absolutely doesn't want contraction. Loss of teams means loss of roster spots which means less jobs to go around for players. They absolutely want to avoid that. Stern is just floating that idea to use as a bargaining chip come negotiating time. It's another hammer for him to hold. In actuality, he knows that actually contracting even just 1 or 2 teams is very damaging to the league's image.

                  If he contracts a team in any given city, then that particular market will basically shun the NBA for a good long time. It would absolutely destroy that market for the NBA and they will have to go to extraordinary measures to ever win that back.
                  Last edited by d_c; 10-22-2010, 02:32 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

                    d_c hit it right on the head here. The contraction talk is a scare tactic, nothing more.

                    The performance incentive idea seems like the most sensible thing I've heard.
                    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

                    - Salman Rushdie

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

                      Agreed with d_c. We all know Stern sets great store by league expansion. Contraction would be anathema to him.

                      Regarding performance incentives - great idea on the surface, but fraught with minefields. How do you set performance incentives? Minutes? Points? It might be relatively clear cut if a guy is injured and can't perform, but even a player like Eddy Curry can claim that he would be able to perform if just given the opportunity. It seems a lot more straightforward to simply have less guaranteed years on contracts. Good performers will have no trouble getting new contracts, while the Eddy Currys will fade out of the league.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

                        It's going to be a rough one.

                        If contraction happens I would by no means feel safe for the pacers. Given our recent attendance and poor financial state. It wouldn't seem right not having a a pro basketball team in Indiana.

                        I hope they get this mess fixed, a lockout isn't good for anyone and would be hard to recover from. The only positive is that I think Stern is by far the smartest commissioner in pro sports. The man knows what he's doing

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

                          Originally posted by thefeistyone View Post
                          It's going to be a rough one.

                          If contraction happens I would by no means feel safe for the pacers. Given our recent attendance and poor financial state. It wouldn't seem right not having a a pro basketball team in Indiana.

                          I hope they get this mess fixed, a lockout isn't good for anyone and would be hard to recover from. The only positive is that I think Stern is by far the smartest commissioner in pro sports. The man knows what he's doing
                          The Pacers won't be contracting. I can't see Stern getting rid of more than one or two teams, and the first three teams to go would certainly be Memphis, Sacramento, and Charlotte, in that order. The Pacers might be in the conversation after that but because Stern has been a big proponent of expansion I can't see him axing more than a couple of teams.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

                            Originally posted by ryheathco View Post
                            Indianapolis is one of the largest cities in the U.S. A big market? No. A small market? No. At least, not in the way I understand the term. I'd be happy for someone to tell me why we are a small market team. I clearly understand that we are not a big market like NYC or LA, but really? One of the largest cities is small market? I don't understand.

                            Besides, there are many "smaller" market venues in the league.
                            Indy is about the 14th largest city, it is actually about 50% larger than Denver. Although the Indy Metro area is about the 33rd largest in the US. While a city like Denver will have multiple suburbs surrounding it that is as large or almost as large as the city itself. So even though Indy has a lot of people actually living inside the city the metro area is proportionally smaller than the average big city in the US.

                            Indy has a population about 750,000*, and Indy Metro is about 1,400,000. While Denver has a population of about 500,000*, but has a Metro population of 2,500,000.

                            Another good example of why city size isn't a good judge of size of market is Ft. Wayne and Orlando. Ft. Wayne actually has a slightly larger population of Orlando, but Orlando is obviously a bigger market.

                            *population from 4 years ago, may be outdated.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

                              Why talk about potentially expanding overseas if you can't even handle your own business at home?

                              This mess is mostly Stern's fault for marketing the league in such a way to allow player salaries to get out of control in the first place.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

                                Originally posted by beast23 View Post
                                That's the thing; I don't think the typical player looks that far down the road. I believe they are focused on how much they can make as quickly as possible, not knowing when that next injury might force them out of the game.

                                They want as much as possible, as soon as possible. If that means that other players might be out of a job, that is perfectly fine with the typical player. After all "it could never happen to me", right?
                                Also, part of the mentality that got you into the league is the feeling that you're a good player, so even if you're currently the 12th man on a team, you might be thinking that you're the best 12th man in the league, so there's no way it'll be you that gets cut out. Really, if you think about contracting 5 teams, which is pretty drastic, that's 75 players. That means that the only guys losing jobs are the guys that are currently stored on the inactive list. I don't think many players are going to take a 33% pay cut so that they can guarantee themselves a job at the end of the bench when they're old and have tens of millions in the bank.

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