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Thread: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

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    Default NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    Oct 21, 2010 9:02 PM EST
    Adam Silver said the players union is "far from accepting" a proposed reduction in salaries of approximately 33 percent.

    But a source tells CBS Sports that the NBA is proposing additional means of restoring profitability to its owners, which would not require the players to take such a drastic reduction in pay.

    Among these other options is the possibility of contracting whole NBA franchises, eliminating teams that operate in less attractive markets.

    According to the report, league officials have communicated to the union that "significant savings could be achieved by changing the NBA's economic model without forcing the players to take such a big cut."

    Besides contraction, the league is floating ideas surrounding shorter contracts and less guaranteed money.

    What the league terms "modest performance standards" for players could replace the need to contract franchises or force players to accept large salary cuts.

    In other words, teams would find savings from being able to reduce or remove the salaries of players such as Eddy Curry who were signed to big deals but did not perform.

    After the end of the formal media session, David Stern conceded that in general the NBA "business is good," pointing out that player salaries will rise as revenues rise.

    "It's a sliding scale," the commissioner said.

    Via CBS Sports


    Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archiv...#ixzz132zO3gwK


    Looks like a lockout could be coming.

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    Contraction...so who gets the axe?

    Minnesota, Memphis, would seem like the two obvious ones, but where do you go from there? Tough to see us getting contracted with such a nice arena.

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Contraction...so who gets the axe?

    Minnesota, Memphis, would seem like the two obvious ones, but where do you go from there? Tough to see us getting contracted with such a nice arena.
    I would cry if we got axed lol :eek

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    I think Stern is in love with multiple stars on big market teams. If he gets rid of these small market teams then those star players like a Rudy Gay or a Danny Granger, Kevin Love; could all be moved to other teams so we then have several powerhouse rosters outside of the Lakers, Heat, and Boston. What a dumb idea. I don't think contraction is the answer. I definitely like performance based contracts, but how do you take into account injuries? How about a hard cap??? Thats seems to be the most obvious answer, but stern is against it because he loves the resurgence of the big market teams spending into oblivion so they have 3-4 really good players on the roster.

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    I would cry if we got axed lol :eek

    I think you would see those teams and New Orleans go before the Pacers.

    Though Minnesota has great season ticket retention. One of the best in the league. Well according to the big wigs at my companies corporate headquarters in Minneapolis.

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I think you would see those teams and New Orleans go before the Pacers.

    Though Minnesota has great season ticket retention. One of the best in the league. Well according to the big wigs at my companies corporate headquarters in Minneapolis.
    what about the bobcats and the Raptors?? will the owners have any say?? or will the NBA buy them out?
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 10-21-2010 at 10:03 PM.

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    what about the bobcats and the Raptors?? will the owners have any say?? or will the NBA buy them out?
    Yeah i'd definetly pick the Raptors as being in that group. Not the Bobcats though, Jordan is there. Stern wouldn't dare.

    But reality is how much extra money can the owners expect to see? They only thing that is shared between them is the TV contracts. So each owner gets a bigger share of the TV earnings, but they loose 10-15 games on the schedule. The NBA TV contract is not as desirable as the NFL.

    Contraction is a self defeating philosophy. They just need to structure it more like the NFL, to where any year any team can rise above the rest and not be hampered by terrible contracts, and players who dont' perform.

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    Well... if the Pacers go, my life gets noticeably simpler/cheaper...

    .....

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    I think the players would think long and hard about taking a pay cut before reducing their chances to even have jobs.

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    For all the conspiracies that Stern hates us, the media would not buy into Indiana not having a pro basketball team. Plus everyone LOVES Conseco.

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Looks like a lockout could be coming.

    Have no doubts. I've been saying it all last season.

    Just remember once the current CBA runs out and no new one in place, FA can't be signed. That means if a lockout occurs and then mid season it is settled FA can't play until signed. How's that going to affect getting the season started?

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    It is hard to believe that we would not be a choice for contraction, given the state of the Pacers current financial woes... I dont think that we would be one of the teams to fold, but the prospect is definitely not what I want as a fan... Looks to me like a lockout is all but certain...

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    I think the players would think long and hard about taking a pay cut before reducing their chances to even have jobs.
    I wouldn't bet on that at all.

    Employees are fickle. Knowing that the vast majority of players would still be employeed, the majority would probably vote for salary retention and the hell with the players that would be dropped.

    As an example, consider the case of the GM stamping plant in Indy that recently closed. A buyer came forward and wanted to cut wages by 45%, but was also willing to provide fully paid medical/life insurance as well as fully paid penstion contributions. The net reduction for each employee would have been about 18%. The union employees voted against the deal, thinking that the prospective buyer would come back to them a fourth time with a better offer. The prospective buyer walked away from the deal.

    So, I would never count on a group of employees to do whatever is necessary to protect as many jobs as possible. A group will never accomplish that when each individual employee is out ot protect himself.

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nb...stern_cba.nba/


    also watch the fanasy centers video Roy is getting some love

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    A large portion of the financial problems for Denver, Indiana, NJ and San Antonio could be solved if the league took ownership of the perpetual annuity owed to the former Spirits of St. Louis owners.

    If I were Stern, and contracting, I'd be buying the franchises at the bottom of the Forbes list. Ideally, they'd get to either 28 or 24 teams. Back to four divisions in two conferences. If its 28 teams, then Toronto and Sacramento would be the most obvious choices, although a case could be made for Memphis as well.

    If its 24 teams, then my preference would be to contract the Celtics, Raptors, and Bobcats from the East, and the Grizzlies, Kings, and Lakers from the West.

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    I wouldn't bet on that at all.

    Employees are fickle. Knowing that the vast majority of players would still be employeed, the majority would probably vote for salary retention and the hell with the players that would be dropped.

    As an example, consider the case of the GM stamping plant in Indy that recently closed. A buyer came forward and wanted to cut wages by 45%, but was also willing to provide fully paid medical/life insurance as well as fully paid penstion contributions. The net reduction for each employee would have been about 18%. The union employees voted against the deal, thinking that the prospective buyer would come back to them a fourth time with a better offer. The prospective buyer walked away from the deal.

    So, I would never count on a group of employees to do whatever is necessary to protect as many jobs as possible. A group will never accomplish that when each individual employee is out ot protect himself.
    That's the thing, most NBA players at some point will be that fringe guy hoping for a job. That would be looking out for themselves.

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    That's the thing, most NBA players at some point will be that fringe guy hoping for a job. That would be looking out for themselves.
    That's the thing; I don't think the typical player looks that far down the road. I believe they are focused on how much they can make as quickly as possible, not knowing when that next injury might force them out of the game.

    They want as much as possible, as soon as possible. If that means that other players might be out of a job, that is perfectly fine with the typical player. After all "it could never happen to me", right?

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    I would cry if we got axed lol :eek
    Indianapolis is one of the largest cities in the U.S. A big market? No. A small market? No. At least, not in the way I understand the term. I'd be happy for someone to tell me why we are a small market team. I clearly understand that we are not a big market like NYC or LA, but really? One of the largest cities is small market? I don't understand.

    Besides, there are many "smaller" market venues in the league.

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by ryheathco View Post
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    Indianapolis is one of the largest cities in the U.S. A big market? No. A small market? No. At least, not in the way I understand the term. I'd be happy for someone to tell me why we are a small market team. I clearly understand that we are not a big market like NYC or LA, but really? One of the largest cities is small market? I don't understand.

    Besides, there are many "smaller" market venues in the league.
    http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html


    This has Naptown ranked 14th in the US in 2009...

    On this list above Indy that does not have a BB team is...
    -Jacksonville(13th)
    -San Fransisco(12th)
    -San Jose(10th)
    -San Diego(8th)

    I dont see any of those teams getting a team out of the deal, I mean how many teams does California or Florida need....

    This would leave us with the 1lth largest market in the NBA(, I would bet that Toronto has a larger population than Indianapolis)... That puts up higher on the list than I thought...

    Edit - I do NOT believe that this factors in suburbs of these cities which would be important as well...

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    If I were the guy running the whole show, I would probably want a few things to make the league more profitable and competitive for individual teams. There are a lot of things that could be done, but I would try to include the following:

    1. Contract by 6 teams, 1 from each division (Milwaukee, NJ, Charlotte, Memphis, Minnesota, Sacramento). Have a 3-round dispersal draft for the remaining 24 teams to select from among the 90 players.

    2. Reduce rosters to 14 players for the remaining 24 teams. Any team having a player that suffers a season-ending injury can sign a replacement player without having to release a player.

    The net effect from 1 & 2 would be to reduce the number of players from 450 to 336 across 24 teams, resulting in less total salary and better quality depth for each of the 24 teams. The remaining teams would probably be more competitive top to bottom than what now exists.

    3. Top 2 teams from each division make playoffs. Each conference then has a round-robin play-in to determine its final 2 playoff teams. This adds 5 games to each teams schedule, with some form of gate revenue splitting among the 6 teams. After the play-in round, playoffs take place in their present form.

    4. Reduce salaries across the board; reduce the salary cap, reduce minimum allowable team salary. Definitely set solid dollar caps on upper end salaries. Perhaps $10M to $12M.

    5. Significantly reduce the luxury tax threshhold. For example, if the salary cap were $42M, make the luxury tax threshhold about $47M. Add additional penalties besides the luxury tax to teams going over the threshhold. For example, exceeding the threshhold by a certain percentage might result in the loss of a second round draft choice. Exceeding it by a much higher percentage might also result in the loss of a first round draft choice as well.

    6. Guaranteed contracts for 2 years only, followed by up to 2 (team) optional years, followed by up to 1 (player) optional year.

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    According to Wikipedia... Indy/Carmal is the 34th largest metropolitan area...


    34 Indianapolis-Carmel, IN MSA !B9856285042366 1,743,658 !B9857624268375 1,525,104 !D0019427847598 +14.33% Indianapolis-Anderson-Columbus, IN CSA








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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    Scary. Contraction after a lockout, and in my view, to 24 teams. I assume that would take roughly 20% of the salary costs out of the league, and strategically done wouldn't have nearly as much negative impact on revenue (I am guessing half of that). If so, that still leaves a net of roughly 23% apart to somehow be bridged. Assuming the owners are willing to take a small hit of about 10%, the players would have to make some significant concessions to get the deal done, and my guess is that it is 1998 all over again, or possibly an entire missed season, though that would be a significant blow to the league, especially during the prime of the Heat and one of Kobe's last high level seasons.

    Buckle up. This ride is about to get very bumpy IMO.

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    While I'll never say anything is impossible, Stern is just using the threat of contraction as another bargaining chip.

    The players union absolutely doesn't want contraction. Loss of teams means loss of roster spots which means less jobs to go around for players. They absolutely want to avoid that. Stern is just floating that idea to use as a bargaining chip come negotiating time. It's another hammer for him to hold. In actuality, he knows that actually contracting even just 1 or 2 teams is very damaging to the league's image.

    If he contracts a team in any given city, then that particular market will basically shun the NBA for a good long time. It would absolutely destroy that market for the NBA and they will have to go to extraordinary measures to ever win that back.
    Last edited by d_c; 10-22-2010 at 02:32 AM.

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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    d_c hit it right on the head here. The contraction talk is a scare tactic, nothing more.

    The performance incentive idea seems like the most sensible thing I've heard.
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    Default Re: NBA Floats Contraction, Performance Standards To Avoid Big Pay Cuts

    Agreed with d_c. We all know Stern sets great store by league expansion. Contraction would be anathema to him.

    Regarding performance incentives - great idea on the surface, but fraught with minefields. How do you set performance incentives? Minutes? Points? It might be relatively clear cut if a guy is injured and can't perform, but even a player like Eddy Curry can claim that he would be able to perform if just given the opportunity. It seems a lot more straightforward to simply have less guaranteed years on contracts. Good performers will have no trouble getting new contracts, while the Eddy Currys will fade out of the league.

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