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Thread: A little thing I saw from James Posey

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    Default A little thing I saw from James Posey

    James Posey has been getting a lot of heat around here lately. Personally I can't complain. I found myself in recent years wanting an old school vet who's cool under pressure, plays physical, gritty basketball. So now we have one, so I can't be mad. Posey will usually not look pretty when on the court, but I see something in Posey. Specifically, I saw something in Fridays game that I can't get out my head. James Posey is a "glue guy" on any team he plays for. It's just him.

    Late in the 4th quarter the Pacers needed to inbound the ball up by one, they call timeout. They are expecting the Hornets to foul so the main focus of the time out is get the ball in bounds to the guy who we want to shoot two free throws (which turns out to be Posey but that's not the point). In the waning seconds of the time out the camera shifts over to Posey, JOB, and Collison standing around mid court. Posey was emphatically talking to JOB. He had his arms stretched out and was making a face at JOB that would suggest he disagreed or didn't understand what JOB was asking. Posey wasn't going to let this go. He was not going to do something he felt was wrong. So he replies with what appears to be his ideas on the current strategy. Even Collison steps up and chimes in his two cents, presumably agreeing with Posey. Whats even more interesting is JOB appears to concede to Posey, at least from the TV broadcast. Granted I don't attend games as frequent as many of you (I see the Pacers when they're in Denver) So I don't have the opportunity to see how everyone interacts. My question is when was the last time this team had a vet who seems to have JOB's ear? You can go back and look at the Fox Sports Indiana broadcast and see for yourself. I will admit this could all be a miss-communication, and Posey just didn't know the play for example, but this is what I feel I saw, and I wish I didn't delete the broadcast so I could watch it again before posting this. I think Posey has JOB's attention because of his innate semi-tactful leadership.

    1. Am I over blowing this? Maybe I am, but I have watched as many Pacer games as possible on NBALP, and I don't remember a guy that could discuss strategy with JOB in the way Posey appeared to do.

    2. Have players been vocal with JOB during his tenure? Something tells me JOB doesn't take advice from TJ or Rush.

    3. If so who?

    4. If a player in the past has been vocal with JOB does he appear to listen?

    5. Is this demonstrative leadership style from Posey negative for the young guys going forward?

    I especially love Posey for this because Collison was right behind him, and the PG, if no one else, needs to be able to communicate, and be heard.

    6. Did anyone else see this?

    I understand how some could be down on Posey. I was never a huge fan of his when he played anywhere else, and still don't know too much about him. Maybe he becomes a conduit for player coach communication. Something every team needs. I don't think it matters one bit to Posey what team he's on, who the coach is, or who his teammates are. He is going to speak and be heard, and that's intangible.

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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    I'm actually watching the telecast right now. I'll have to take a look at this.

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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    I still don't want Posey

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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    If anything, I think Posey ran the floor better on Friday night. When my cousin and I went to that Orlando game, he looked very out of shape as he chugged it up and down the court. He seemed to have a bit more of a spring in his step against New Orleans.

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    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    Posey is going to be crap until it matters. When its a big game or postseason he'll hit a couple of threes and get to the line, like he did Friday. Granted, Friday was not a big game. James is a different player than we've seen in recent memory.

    James Posey for a change is a bench player that looks to distribute the ball to the post and play a lot of in and out action. That is a good thing. When the regular season comes around, he will begin to take charges. He may have lost a step or 647.88 in lateral quickness, but he will be nitty gritty when he is up front with his man and he will teach all the players a thing or two about certain players.

    In a weird way, he's an extension of a good coach on the floor. He knows where to get the ball next and he knows perfectly what is a good shot for him and what is a bad shot for him.

    For the downside, he can't shoot off the dribble or fill the lane in a fastbreak for **** because he just can't do that. He also doesn't rebound anymore and he can't stay in front of his man.

    Of course everyone was saying that about Rasheed last year.

    And I'll check the whole coach/DC/Posey thing out in the morning.

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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I still don't want Posey
    But you want Collison, and Posey was the price of obtaining him. I would rather have Posey than Murphy this year. Posey has been part of championship teams, but yet the Pacers have no use for him? I like the idea of Posey being around the young guys. I understand that some don't want him which is why I never asked if people wanted him in the thread. I wanted some clarification on the questions I asked. If I wanted to know who wanted Posey or not I would of made a poll do you want Posey YES/NO. I believe basketball is highly psychological sport. Posey definitely has a mentality I think we haven't had the pleasure to have in quite sometime.

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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    Posey is going to be crap until it matters. When its a big game or postseason he'll hit a couple of threes and get to the line, like he did Friday. Granted, Friday was not a big game. James is a different player than we've seen in recent memory.

    James Posey for a change is a bench player that looks to distribute the ball to the post and play a lot of in and out action. That is a good thing. When the regular season comes around, he will begin to take charges. He may have lost a step or 647.88 in lateral quickness, but he will be nitty gritty when he is up front with his man and he will teach all the players a thing or two about certain players.

    In a weird way, he's an extension of a good coach on the floor. He knows where to get the ball next and he knows perfectly what is a good shot for him and what is a bad shot for him.

    For the downside, he can't shoot off the dribble or fill the lane in a fastbreak for **** because he just can't do that. He also doesn't rebound anymore and he can't stay in front of his man.

    Of course everyone was saying that about Rasheed last year.

    And I'll check the whole coach/DC/Posey thing out in the morning.
    Some great stuff in your post. I should of mentioned this in the OP. I don't want to get too much into Posey the player as opposed to Posey's mentality.

    You do seem to know a lot about evaluating players though, and your remark about him being an extension of the coach on the floor is exactly where I'm heading. He's a savvy vet, and he is not scared of the moment. On top of all this he seems to be able to communicate during live action with JOB. Which is something I can't name anyone who could.
    Last edited by focused444; 10-17-2010 at 12:52 AM.

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    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    Quote Originally Posted by focused444 View Post
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    Some great stuff in your post. I should of mentioned this in the OP. I don't want to get too much into Posey the player as opposed to Posey's mentality.

    You do seem to know a lot about evaluating players though, and your remark about him being an extension of the coach on the floor is exactly where I'm heading. He's a savvy vet, and he is not scared of the moment. On top of all this he seem to be able to communicate during live action with JOB.
    I mean, he's not an extension of the coach like Steve Nash or Rajon Rondo is. Rajon and Steve are your typical extensions of the coach that you will hear on TV alot or whatever.

    But guys like Shane Battier, Grant Hill, and our very own James Posey are what I would call perfect role players. They know what they can and can't do and they don't force anything or they don't try to make difficult passes to get a top 10 sports center highlight. They are happy with the championship when its all said and done. They are extensions of the coach as they are going to get the ball to the best players and they are going to play by percentages and know when it is their time to step up.

    James is vocal on the floor and he isn't backing down to anyone like Ron doesn't on the court. He's been through it all and he knows that at a home game vs. Minnesota there is no need for him to put in all of this effort if it is going to bring him down for the next three games before a couple days rest. But if we play Lakers on the road, he is going to play hard and he is going to try to do what players like him do.

    It's amazing how he's turned himself into a journeyman into one of the 10 or so uber glue guys in the league. He's not really that as a player anymore, at all, but he'll have flashes during big games.

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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    I mean, he's not an extension of the coach like Steve Nash or Rajon Rondo is. Rajon and Steve are your typical extensions of the coach that you will hear on TV alot or whatever.

    But guys like Shane Battier, Grant Hill, and our very own James Posey are what I would call perfect role players. They know what they can and can't do and they don't force anything or they don't try to make difficult passes to get a top 10 sports center highlight. They are happy with the championship when its all said and done. They are extensions of the coach as they are going to get the ball to the best players and they are going to play by percentages and know when it is their time to step up.

    James is vocal on the floor and he isn't backing down to anyone like Ron doesn't on the court. He's been through it all and he knows that at a home game vs. Minnesota there is no need for him to put in all of this effort if it is going to bring him down for the next three games before a couple days rest. But if we play Lakers on the road, he is going to play hard and he is going to try to do what players like him do.

    It's amazing how he's turned himself into a journeyman into one of the 10 or so uber glue guys in the league. He's not really that as a player anymore, at all, but he'll have flashes during big games.
    Exactly! He's not a Nash type of extension, his skill set doesn't allow it, but if Collison/George/Lance or any Pacer even Granger is out of place (physically or mentally) he will direct them, or at least try. He's been in a lot of huge games, and he will show up in big moments. JOB already had him as the guy to take the two free throws. I think that's because of him not feeling pressure, not his skill. It's similar to when Ron took Danny under his wing. IMO every team needs a guy like this to speak up and direct the show even if the can't physically run it. I have complained about Rush's passive demeanor, and Posey is exactly the opposite, he's intense from a mental aspect.

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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    Stupid question on my end.....when people say that a Player is a good "glue-guy", what does that mean?

    Can someone provide me some examples of who is a good "glue-guy" and how that translates into action on the court?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    Everybody will have their own personal definition, but I will give you what I think it means. A "glue-guy" is another term for a person with great intangibles. Things like after a loss everybody is down, but not Posey. From what I've seen he probably rallies the troops, saying whatever he needs to say to rectify any situation.The aspect that makes these type of players special is it doesn't seem like pretentious leadership to the other players, they trust him. Lets say Collison is running a play wrong Posey will tell him right there on the court with the clock running where to go, and probably later too. Next time they will be better for it. It's a mentality of a guy who will do everything in his power to improve the totality of team. These things are immeasurable because you never know how much impact they're having. It's very much behind the scenes stuff. I don't think it's a coincidence Posey has been on championship teams. It's basically another way to say good locker room guy. I think Posey is more than that though because he has the respect of JOB in a different manner than I've seen previously.
    Last edited by focused444; 10-17-2010 at 01:44 AM.

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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    I noticed this as well, but I wasn't sure what the context was.

    I also agree about Posey being a "glue-guy." Two seasons ago, I thought that was Jarrett Jack.

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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I still don't want Posey
    me2

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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    me2
    I am not implying Posey is a great addition on the court at this stage in career, but if Posey is getting minutes you will see him being effective at times. He is by no means un-tradeable from our stand point. If some team thinks they need him and the right deal is there I fully expect Larry to move him. I give you that. My point though was never about on the court issues much anyway. I think you're overlooking what he can provide as far as leadership. I could easily see a scenario where Lance, Paul, or any other Pacer needs guidance from Posey. I think it's extra beneficial for the young guys to be exposed to him at this point in their careers. I wouldn't be surprised if a couple season from now the Pacers (especially younger) players will acknowledge learning from him.

    Do you not see it?

    or

    Do you not care?

    Do me a favor, ask Lance what Posey means to the team as far as leadership when you see him again. I would love to hear his response.

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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    I like Posey he might be out of shape but he can fix this problem. He's a much needed veteran for our team who is willing to help the young players. The fact he tries to get the ball in the post more often is great because this was the Pacers eigther get Hibbert to work down low and score or Roy will pass the ball out to a guy waiting on the perimeter to shoot. I like the way he stays calm, while last year many guys on our team just took stupid shot after 5 seconds of ball-possesion. Im look forward to see how much of an impact he can make as a mentoring veteran and great locker room guy. It's great to see Posey disagrees with O'Brien on plays or tactics, seems like he doesn't like the "take the first shot you get" tactics. Don't hate on Posey I think he's a cool guy.

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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    Quote Originally Posted by focused444 View Post
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    I am not implying Posey is a great addition on the court at this stage in career, but if Posey is getting minutes you will see him being effective at times. He is by no means un-tradeable from our stand point. If some team thinks they need him and the right deal is there I fully expect Larry to move him. I give you that. My point though was never about on the court issues much anyway. I think you're overlooking what he can provide as far as leadership. I could easily see a scenario where Lance, Paul, or any other Pacer needs guidance from Posey. I think it's extra beneficial for the young guys to be exposed to him at this point in their careers. I wouldn't be surprised if a couple season from now the Pacers (especially younger) players will acknowledge learning from him.

    Do you not see it?

    or

    Do you not care?

    Do me a favor, ask Lance what Posey means to the team as far as leadership when you see him again. I would love to hear his response.
    ok he told me to catch him after the home opener

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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    I've always wanted a vet who made a name for himself with his defense to tag along with Brandon just to teach him a few old tricks, share some stories, strategies, workout routines, etc. Brandon has the tools to be one of the best defenders in the NBA and a vet like Posey can only help him reach that potential.
    Last edited by Kuq_e_Zi91; 10-17-2010 at 03:25 AM.

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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
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    I've always wanted a vet that made a name for himself with his defense to tag along with Brandon just to teach him a few old tricks, share some stories, strategies, workout routines, etc. Brandon has the tools to be one of the best defenders in the NBA and a vet like Posey can only help him reach that potential.
    Interesting.

    If Posey could "wake Rush up" to me that would define Posey's career as a Pacer.

    Imagine Rush with Posey's mentality.

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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    Quote Originally Posted by focused444 View Post
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    James Posey has been getting a lot of heat around here lately. Personally I can't complain. I found myself in recent years wanting an old school vet who's cool under pressure, plays physical, gritty basketball. So now we have one, so I can't be mad. Posey will usually not look pretty when on the court, but I see something in Posey. Specifically, I saw something in Fridays game that I can't get out my head. James Posey is a "glue guy" on any team he plays for. It's just him.

    Late in the 4th quarter the Pacers needed to inbound the ball up by one, they call timeout. They are expecting the Hornets to foul so the main focus of the time out is get the ball in bounds to the guy who we want to shoot two free throws (which turns out to be Posey but that's not the point). In the waning seconds of the time out the camera shifts over to Posey, JOB, and Collison standing around mid court. Posey was emphatically talking to JOB. He had his arms stretched out and was making a face at JOB that would suggest he disagreed or didn't understand what JOB was asking. Posey wasn't going to let this go. He was not going to do something he felt was wrong. So he replies with what appears to be his ideas on the current strategy. Even Collison steps up and chimes in his two cents, presumably agreeing with Posey. Whats even more interesting is JOB appears to concede to Posey, at least from the TV broadcast. Granted I don't attend games as frequent as many of you (I see the Pacers when they're in Denver) So I don't have the opportunity to see how everyone interacts. My question is when was the last time this team had a vet who seems to have JOB's ear? You can go back and look at the Fox Sports Indiana broadcast and see for yourself. I will admit this could all be a miss-communication, and Posey just didn't know the play for example, but this is what I feel I saw, and I wish I didn't delete the broadcast so I could watch it again before posting this. I think Posey has JOB's attention because of his innate semi-tactful leadership.

    1. Am I over blowing this? Maybe I am, but I have watched as many Pacer games as possible on NBALP, and I don't remember a guy that could discuss strategy with JOB in the way Posey appeared to do.

    2. Have players been vocal with JOB during his tenure? Something tells me JOB doesn't take advice from TJ or Rush.

    3. If so who?

    4. If a player in the past has been vocal with JOB does he appear to listen?

    5. Is this demonstrative leadership style from Posey negative for the young guys going forward?

    I especially love Posey for this because Collison was right behind him, and the PG, if no one else, needs to be able to communicate, and be heard.

    6. Did anyone else see this?

    I understand how some could be down on Posey. I was never a huge fan of his when he played anywhere else, and still don't know too much about him. Maybe he becomes a conduit for player coach communication. Something every team needs. I don't think it matters one bit to Posey what team he's on, who the coach is, or who his teammates are. He is going to speak and be heard, and that's intangible.

    I noticed Posey in that time-out and it was great! I haven't seen that in a LONG time. And to the Posey haters: I would rather have a 2-time NBA Champion veteran that can shoot the three than having Troy Murphy! Its amazing that we finally get somebody on this team that has won before but fans still don't want him.
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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Stupid question on my end.....when people say that a Player is a good "glue-guy", what does that mean?

    Can someone provide me some examples of who is a good "glue-guy" and how that translates into action on the court?
    Leadership skills, communication..something that has been lacking the last 3-4years.
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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    Can we realistically expect to be able to move Posey anyway? I kind of feel like we're "stuck with him", as those who aren't thrilled with JP might say. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now and see how he plays out. I'm cautiously optimistic that he can add some of the intangibles and leadership his proponents contend he brings. I cannot deny that he's old and slow. I can accept those drawbacks if he contributes in other ways.
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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    James Posey demonstrated in the Hornets game exactly why several 'contending' teams will want him for this year. He hit the BIG 3pt shots, MADE both critical FREE throws in the waning seconds, and provided veteran leadership during the timeout prior to the in-bounds pass by providing JOB a sounding board. And, you know that he won't BACK DOWN from anybody on the court like Ron-Ron. He's exactly the kind of player we need on the team to teach the young guys how to carry themselves. We DON'T need passive type leaders like Danny Granger or even the pud named Dun-Dun. I, personally, like the warrior types on the court. Even McBob exhibits this warrior trait when he's on the court as does Lance Stephenson. Paul George and Brandon Rush are both extremely laid back and I'm not sure if they're 'competitive' enough to have the killer instinct that elite NBA players all have. They will both, however, follow REAL leadership and Posey is providing it right now. I really do EXPECT some elite NBA team to come calling and try to ACQUIRE Posey from the Pacers for peanuts. The Celtics would love to have him back on their team. He would also be a good fit on the Spurs or Heat teams. We'll see whether LB keeps him to mentor our young guys or trades him for the best offer. If LB wants to WIN games this year (as they all say), he'll keep James Posey on this team.

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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    Quote Originally Posted by TooBigNdaPaint View Post
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    James Posey demonstrated in the Hornets game exactly why several 'contending' teams will want him for this year. He hit the BIG 3pt shots, MADE both critical FREE throws in the waning seconds, and provided veteran leadership during the timeout prior to the in-bounds pass by providing JOB a sounding board. And, you know that he won't BACK DOWN from anybody on the court like Ron-Ron. He's exactly the kind of player we need on the team to teach the young guys how to carry themselves. We DON'T need passive type leaders like Danny Granger or even the pud named Dun-Dun. I, personally, like the warrior types on the court. Even McBob exhibits this warrior trait when he's on the court as does Lance Stephenson. Paul George and Brandon Rush are both extremely laid back and I'm not sure if they're 'competitive' enough to have the killer instinct that elite NBA players all have. They will both, however, follow REAL leadership and Posey is providing it right now. I really do EXPECT some elite NBA team to come calling and try to ACQUIRE Posey from the Pacers for peanuts. The Celtics would love to have him back on their team. He would also be a good fit on the Spurs or Heat teams. We'll see whether LB keeps him to mentor our young guys or trades him for the best offer. If LB wants to WIN games this year (as they all say), he'll keep James Posey on this team.
    You're right about JP's NO game. He played very well. Up to then he didn't look so good. I don't know about the warrior mentality tho. Too early to tell. But I agree that the Pacers could use some of that. Let's hope he brings more of the same juice that he had against NO in coming games. If he does, I think the fan base will embrace him.

  35. #24

    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    I have no problem with JP being a Pacer, I'm just not enthralled with his contract. If he can mentor and give leadership to the young'ns, that's great. You need vet presence on a team, and he can be that. I'm not sure Foster is that much of a vet presence, but if Foster is, then it's nice to have another with CHAMPIONSHIP experience to share with others. JP has 2 championship rings from 2 different teams under 2 "pretty fair" coaches. The only person in the Pacers franchise with more championship rings is Bird. They do both have championship rings with the Celtics.

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  37. #25
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    Default Re: A little thing I saw from James Posey

    I don't get all of the Posey hating out there. Did we really expect to get the 2004 version of Posey? Yes, he's older and slower but that was the price we paid to get Collison. To me he is a 5-15 minute role player who can hit a big shot and remain composed at the end of the game when it matters. I know his contract is bloated but you can't blame him for that. If someone offered me a raise like that would I say, "no thanks, I don't deserve that kind of cash"?

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