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Thread: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

  1. #1
    Womens Wrestling Champion El Pacero's Avatar
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    Default Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    Starters shine, but subs fail to surface
    By Mike Wells

    Jim O'Brien is done using every player available in games.

    The Indiana Pacers coach is tightening his rotation and going with the players he said will give the team its best chance of winning during the regular season.

    O'Brien liked the production from his starting lineup Wednesday night, but the Pacers' bench play was another story in their 98-86 victory over the Minnesota Timberwolves at Conseco Fieldhouse.

    "In a perfect world, everybody would play, but if we want to win, we all need to be tied in together, and the best way to do that is to have the most experienced guys out there," starting center Roy Hibbert said. "Once in a while, you sprinkle in a young or new guy in there, but the core guys need to be on the court for us to win. We can't go five in and five out."

    O'Brien started what should be his opening night lineup -- Darren Collison, Mike Dunleavy, Danny Granger, Josh McRoberts and Hibbert. Jeff Foster, James Posey, A.J. Price, Paul George and Tyler Hansbrough were brought off the bench.

    All five starters played at least 26 minutes.

    Granger led all scorers with 30 points and added 11 rebounds. Hibbert contributed 16 points, 14 rebounds and seven blocks. McRoberts was two points shy of a third double-double. He finished with eight points and 11 rebounds.

    The Pacers led by as many as 20 points in the second half.

    "This gives us better preparation for the season for when the games start counting," Dunleavy said. "There's no question it's going to help because it won't be somebody like Danny only playing 20 minutes. We know that won't happen in a regular-season (game)."

    O'Brien said he's not sure how deep he plans to go on the bench during the regular season.

    "It might depend on the tempo we have established in the game," O'Brien said. "But I would like to have confidence in 10 people. Whether we use all 10 every night is another issue. I would like to have 10 guys that would be ready to play every night."

    Who comes off the bench for the Pacers at power forward and center could change.

    O'Brien wasn't happy with the production he got from the backups at those positions.

    Foster played only six minutes because the Pacers were outscored by 11 points when he was in the game, O'Brien said.

    Solomon Jones played nine minutes at center in the second half in place of the Foster.

    Hansbrough is getting the first shot at backing up McRoberts, but it's uncertain how long it will take him to be ready to fill that role after being limited to 29 games last season because of a series of ailments.

    The Pacers got two points on 1-of-6 shooting, two turnovers and five rebounds out of their backup power forwards and centers.

    Posey and Granger could end up getting minutes at power forward. Both players have experience at the position.

    "I have to find out who our backups will be at the center and power forward spots," O'Brien said. "I'm searching, frankly. . . . Right now those spots are wide open. We are alarmingly thin up front."

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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    How long has this second unit actually played together?

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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    By the way, that "subs fail to surface" line is brilliant. Some of Mike Wells's best work.

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    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    That last quote by O'Brien sounded like us on here.

    But I do think that Foster and Hansbrough should be our backups with the exception of Danny or George if there are matchup issues.

    Assuming that Roy and Josh will be player 32-36 minutes a night, we won't really need all that much quality backup work this year anyway.

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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    That last quote by O'Brien sounded like us on here.

    But I do think that Foster and Hansbrough should be our backups with the exception of Danny or George if there are matchup issues.

    Assuming that Roy and Josh will be player 32-36 minutes a night, we won't really need all that much quality backup work this year anyway.
    I don't know how we can put Foster in there. As much as I hate to say it, even Sol looks like a better option right now.

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    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    Meh, I mean Foster can still get decent rebounds, and he is a good passer out of the high post (all things that Solly can't do). He's not consistent anymore, but 1/5 nights he'll bring his offensive rebounding to help us out.

    But yeah, I know what you mean. We could really use someone decent like ANDERSON VAREJAO!!

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    pacer fan since 88-89 Mr_Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    I couldn't agree with Roy any better
    Fire up that tank and drive it to the lottery then to the draft

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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    Paul had a pretty good game finishing with 10 points.

    I was actually a little disappointed that Tyler didn't score and A.J. only had 2.

    Also, I'd rather see JOB put in Magnum before Solo and give Magnum more time since Solo is probably the odd man out.

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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    Also, I'd rather see JOB put in Magnum before Solo and give Magnum more time since Solo is probably the odd man out.
    While I also would rather see Magnum than Solo, I think you are making a pretty big assumption there, especially after the so-called "regular rotations" last night.

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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    While I also would rather see Magnum than Solo, I think you are making a pretty big assumption there, especially after the so-called "regular rotations" last night.
    I don't think Magnum is a rotation player, but since he's young and is bigger and can do more than Solo, I'd rather play him.

    I think the 5 players that came off the bench last night are going to be the 5 that will be in the rotation.

    It's seems like JOB doesn't have much interest in playing Brandon as much anymore and would rather use James for his shooting.

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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    I don't think Magnum is a rotation player, but since he's young and is bigger and can do more than Solo, I'd rather play him.
    Magnum is definitely not bigger than Sol. As skinny as Sol is, Magnum is even skinnier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy
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    I think the 5 players that came off the bench last night are going to be the 5 that will be in the rotation.
    I would be surprised if JOB goes with a true 10 man rotation. I think it will be much smaller. I don't see 10 players capable of contributing right now. More like 8 or 9 depending on the effectiveness and health of Dunleavy. I think you'll see a lot of McRoberts at the 5 and Granger at the 4, but I really don't like the thought of that, just what is going to be necessary with the lack of depth in the front court.

    Collison/Price
    Dunleavy/Rush
    Granger/George
    McRoberts/Hansbrough
    Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy
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    It's seems like JOB doesn't have much interest in playing Brandon as much anymore and would rather use James for his shooting.
    I think that was more to prepare for the first 5 games. Once B-Rush has served his suspension he has to be back in the rotation, no questions asked.

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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    I think Foster is fine as the back up center. I mean what do you want your back up center to do? Rebound, hussle, protect the paint, be the enforcer. Atleast Jeff will dunk the damn ball when he's under the basket.

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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    "We are alarmingly thin up front" does not sound like Solo will be bought out or cut anytime soon, but looking @ min's so far, D.Jones PT in the preseason tells me he is right there w/ TJ as the square pegs on our team. Foster will likely improve, but if he can't win a consistent backup role he will be a real canidate to be moved by the deadline.
    I really hope we can make a deal & don't have to cut someone, esp a young guy w/ talent like Lance or Rolle!

    On a side note:
    2 players I would love to see us add are A.Varejao or M.Gortat.
    Varejao could become available if Cle. desides to dump salery, but a lot of teams like him & his price could go too high. Gortat is not exactly thrilled w/ his role in Orl. & they are way over the cap, so there could be a move, but they are also thinking championship, & MG is a great security blanket up front for them. Both are young & have size. I dont see Gortat playing the 4 like AV, but @ 12-18 min's/gm, he would help keep Roy fresh, plus I think he has more game then he has the ability to show in Orl.
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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I think Foster is fine as the back up center. I mean what do you want your back up center to do? Rebound, hussle, protect the paint, be the enforcer. Atleast Jeff will dunk the damn ball when he's under the basket.
    Thats funny. Jeff hasn't dunked in 2 1/2 years. But i do want him to be the backup center.

    Shame this game wasn't on tv... i listened to most of it via nba.com... it umm 'sounded" good. I liked the tempo we seemed to play with. There was a stretch in the middle of the 3rd quarter where Minny missed at least 4 or 5 in a row and we just got out and RAN with it off the misses. I believe thats how that Granger/George play went down.

    I hope most have come back off the ledge... cuz w/e that poll says, there were soooo many of you.
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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    I have been a huge fan of Jeff over the years but he has lost his athletic ability. That bad back of his has killed his career. He no longer looks to grind or be tough out there. Its a shame he had to rot on this roster because he was the type of player a contender would have wanted and I would of liked to see him win a championship.

    Tyler didnt force the issure of scoring tonight. He typically demands the ball int he post and beats his way to the basket. It almost looked like something was wrong or he just did not feel it. I think he has to get going early so he can be in rythm.

    We needed AJs shooting last night. We were horrible on threes and he usually shoots daggers.

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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    Really if Hanbrough doesn't back up JMac, Posey doesn't look like he can guard wings anymore at all to me. I guess Obie will play Posey at PF, I think Posey shouldn't play wing at all, ever. He can't stay in front of anyone at that position anymore. I'd only play him at PF if at all, honestly.

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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    Interesting how TJ and D Jones have just completely fallen out of the discussion. I understand TJ is hurt, but interesting he's not even considered anymore. D Jones has to be hoping for a trade in a big way.

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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    Man

    I really hope Bird is trying to pry either Carl Landry or Jason Thompson from the Kings.

    I like Josh but after that we are very thin, and at this point not sure if Tyler will be much more than a 10-15 minue a night energy guy
    Sittin on top of the world!

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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerGuy View Post
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    "We are alarmingly thin up front" does not sound like Solo will be bought out or cut anytime soon, but looking @ min's so far, D.Jones PT in the preseason tells me he is right there w/ TJ as the square pegs on our team. Foster will likely improve, but if he can't win a consistent backup role he will be a real canidate to be moved by the deadline.
    I really hope we can make a deal & don't have to cut someone, esp a young guy w/ talent like Lance or Rolle!

    On a side note:
    2 players I would love to see us add are A.Varejao or M.Gortat.
    Varejao could become available if Cle. desides to dump salery, but a lot of teams like him & his price could go too high. Gortat is not exactly thrilled w/ his role in Orl. & they are way over the cap, so there could be a move, but they are also thinking championship, & MG is a great security blanket up front for them. Both are young & have size. I dont see Gortat playing the 4 like AV, but @ 12-18 min's/gm, he would help keep Roy fresh, plus I think he has more game then he has the ability to show in Orl.

    You tihnk Gortat would be happy coming here and backing up Roy Hibbert on a worse team?

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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    Quote Originally Posted by IUfan4life View Post
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    You tihnk Gortat would be happy coming here and backing up Roy Hibbert on a worse team?
    Nope

    Thats his beef in Orlando. He wants to start
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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    My ideal rotation would be:

    Collison/Price/Stephenson
    George/Dun/Rush/Stephenson
    Granger/Dun/George/Posey
    McBobs/Granger/Posey/Hans/Foster
    Hibbert/Foster

    I included a lot of depth to account for possible lineups rather then backups soley coming in for starters. For example, I'd rather see Granger slide to the 4 before Hans plays significant minutes. Lastly, we should actively pursue trade options for Jones, Ford, Solo, Foster, Dun, Rush, and Posey. With the goal being draft picks, young talent, expiring contracts, or front court depth. Only untradables being DC, DG, Roy, and George. Thoughts?

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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    Interesting comments. I thought Foster and Hansbrough both played really well against Houston. They may have been the only ones who did. Then they both stunk last night, reportedly.

    I would guess that once Hans gets fully back into the swing of things, he'll not only be the clear back-up, but will be pushing McRoberts very hard for playing time.

    Also, these seem like motivational comments from O'Brien. I'd guess that he's trying to get Foster and Hansbrough a bit fired up.
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    Quote Originally Posted by pacerfreak View Post
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    How long has this second unit actually played together?
    abot a qt combined

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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau87 View Post
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    My ideal rotation would be:

    Collison/Price/Stephenson
    George/Dun/Rush/Stephenson
    Granger/Dun/George/Posey
    McBobs/Granger/Posey/Hans/Foster
    Hibbert/Foster

    I included a lot of depth to account for possible lineups rather then backups soley coming in for starters. For example, I'd rather see Granger slide to the 4 before Hans plays significant minutes. Lastly, we should actively pursue trade options for Jones, Ford, Solo, Foster, Dun, Rush, and Posey. With the goal being draft picks, young talent, expiring contracts, or front court depth. Only untradables being DC, DG, Roy, and George. Thoughts?
    I love that lineup because how many fastbreaks it brings. Jmac is a really good outlet passer he showed that lastnight. Paul and DG will get out in and run that is my favorite lineup. Posey is to slow to play in this system and he doesnt have a postion anymore. He is too slow to guard a 3 yet to small to guard a four he looks prett bad.

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    Default Re: Starters shine, but subs fail to surface

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Really if Hanbrough doesn't back up JMac, Posey doesn't look like he can guard wings anymore at all to me. I guess Obie will play Posey at PF, I think Posey shouldn't play wing at all, ever. He can't stay in front of anyone at that position anymore. I'd only play him at PF if at all, honestly.
    In peson Posey looks likes like he is in church league really slow and like i said doesnt have a positon aymore.

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