View Poll Results: Which player should play over the other? (Get the backup role)

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  • Dahntay Jones

    10 14.71%
  • Brandon Rush

    58 85.29%
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Thread: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    So you act like you aren't judging this based on offense, and then you quote Hollinger? Baffling.

    I said offense because you can't knock Rush on defense. The only issue you can have with the kid on the court is his lack aggressiveness on the offensive end of the court.

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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbert View Post
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    Allen Iverson in his prime was a very good defender. He led the league in steals three straight seasons. Man to man he was not a great defender but he gambled and played the passing lanes very well.
    Seriously so he gambled to get his couple steals a game... What happened the other times when he missed on his gamble.. Getting steals isn't good defense, staying in front of your man, denying the ball, and having a hand in the face of the shooter is good defense.

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  4. #28
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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Neither should be on the team.

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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    DJones should not be playing. That much is easy.

    Now, for some painful truth about Brandon Rush. Rush is NEVER going to be a productive starting SG in the NBA. Also, he is not the guy you need to shoot daggers ala Reggie Miller. It just isn't going to happen. He may shoot for a decent percentage, but his forte will be defense...so he should come off the bench and be used to slow down scoring wings. That is the extent of what I expect from Rush and the extent the Pacers should try to use him.

    Instead, it is time to start grooming George for the position. Allow Dunleavy to start until George shows he can own the position. Have Rush be 3rd string off the bench or when an athletic defender is absolutely needed.

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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by flox View Post
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    Neither should be on the team.
    Brother, I actually agree with you on this. It has to be correct...

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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    DJones should not be playing. That much is easy.

    Now, for some painful truth about Brandon Rush. Rush is NEVER going to be a productive starting SG in the NBA. Also, he is not the guy you need to shoot daggers ala Reggie Miller. It just isn't going to happen. He may shoot for a decent percentage, but his forte will be defense...so he should come off the bench and be used to slow down scoring wings. That is the extent of what I expect from Rush and the extent the Pacers should try to use him.

    Instead, it is time to start grooming George for the position. Allow Dunleavy to start until George shows he can own the position. Have Rush be 3rd string off the bench or when an athletic defender is absolutely needed.
    Is this a basketball decision or is your choice because Rush got suspended? sometimes I think people want to play the choir boy in Dunleavy because he is a nicer guy and does not get in trouble even though he is not that good anymore.

  9. #32

    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    DJones should not be playing. That much is easy.

    Now, for some painful truth about Brandon Rush. Rush is NEVER going to be a productive starting SG in the NBA. Also, he is not the guy you need to shoot daggers ala Reggie Miller. It just isn't going to happen. He may shoot for a decent percentage, but his forte will be defense...so he should come off the bench and be used to slow down scoring wings. That is the extent of what I expect from Rush and the extent the Pacers should try to use him.

    Instead, it is time to start grooming George for the position. Allow Dunleavy to start until George shows he can own the position. Have Rush be 3rd string off the bench or when an athletic defender is absolutely needed.
    I agree with you 100%.

    Brandon is athletic enough to guard other athletic wings in the NBA. He should focus on defense and look to score off of steals and deflections where he uses his speed to get out on the break. He can also shoot it when his confidence is up or the team is doing well and he's in the flow of the game.

    Dahntay just doesn't have ANY offense and he's not even that great of a defensive player. I never understood WHY LB even signed him (although it was said for his defense). I mean, Denver, didn't want him back and it's obvious WHY they didn't want him. He can't shoot it when open and he can't finish at the rim on a consistent basis (if he even get's there).

    George needs alot of work. His shooting touch is 'lost in action' right now. He doesn't understand how to score against NBA defenses and, on offense, I'm not certain his best position is at SG. I'd like to see him at SG but he's needs to find other ways to score if his shot isn't falling. With his length and size, he should be able to get inside and 'pass' the rock after drawing the defender. Eventually, he'll be able to score with a variety of bank shots, tear drops, and fade-away jumpers. Unfortunately, he's one or two years away from developing this scoring skill level. He's still 'stuck' in college mode and/or he's not understanding JOB's offense. He's needs to to quit 'thinking' so much and just play the game that comes natural to him.

  10. #33
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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Is this a basketball decision or is your choice because Rush got suspended? sometimes I think people want to play the choir boy in Dunleavy because he is a nicer guy and does not get in trouble even though he is not that good anymore.
    I think most people choose Dunleavy to start over Rush not only because he's the choir boy, but he's also better than Rush.

    He's more efficient, better passing, better and more willing shooter, better team defender, gets to the line, and is a smarter player.

    Rush only has set shot threes and man to man defense.

  11. #34
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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by ThA HoyA View Post
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    If we go off of "steals" then iverson was one of the best defenders of all time.
    Steals don't make you a good defender. Staying in front of your man, contesting the shot, deflections...... those are things that put fear and doubt in an opponet head.... IMO
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

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  13. #35
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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by TooBigNdaPaint View Post
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    George needs alot of work. His shooting touch is 'lost in action' right now. He doesn't understand how to score against NBA defenses and, on offense, I'm not certain his best position is at SG. I'd like to see him at SG but he's needs to find other ways to score if his shot isn't falling. With his length and size, he should be able to get inside and 'pass' the rock after drawing the defender. Eventually, he'll be able to score with a variety of bank shots, tear drops, and fade-away jumpers.

    Unfortunately, he's one or two years away from developing this scoring skill level. He's still 'stuck' in college mode and/or he's not understanding JOB's offense. He's needs to to quit 'thinking' so much and just play the game that comes natural to him.
    He's being a young rookie.

    He's going to learn how to get spacing for his shot, he's going to know where his shots are going to come from, he's going to know when to attack, and his jumper is going to be better year after year.

    Everyone will be suprised how much he will improve from year 1 to 2 to 3.

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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    I think most people choose Dunleavy to start over Rush not only because he's the choir boy, but he's also better than Rush.

    He's more efficient, better passing, better and more willing shooter, better team defender, gets to the line, and is a smarter player.

    Rush only has set shot threes and man to man defense.
    Better defender?

    Dunleavy was all that you are talking about, he is not that anymore, I guess you haven't seen him playing in the last two years.

    I also know that the preseason is the preseason but Dunleavy is looking horrible, he is slow on defense and his guys scores at will even if that guy is the 12th man on the other teams roster, Vince Carter was abusing him in all the possible ways.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 10-10-2010 at 02:48 PM.

  15. #37

    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbert View Post
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    + Has solid, high-arcing lefty jumper


    LEFTY jumper??

  16. #38
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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Better defender?

    .
    I like the way you twist things and leave out the most important words.

    Here is what I actually said:

    Better TEAM defender

    Mike Dunleavy is a better team defender than Brandon Rush. Watch the Orlando game for proof. Then watch the Houston game to see how Brandon was absolutely no where to be found when Yao got the ball in the very low post.

    And don't bring up that charge on Yao. That was off of his own careless turnnover that no one with any basketball IQ would do.

    Dunleavy was all that you are talking about, he is not that anymore, I guess you haven't seen him playing in the last two years.
    Considering that he was playing with absolutely no legs with zero confidence...

    I also know that the preseason is the preseason but Dunleavy is looking horrible, he is slow on defense and his guys scores at will even if that guy is the 12th man on the other teams roster, Vince Carter was abusing him in all the possible ways.
    And if he wouldn't have doubled Dwight DH would have been the one with 35 points. Vince had his first two points from a step back off Dunleavy. Anytime you get someone to do a step back not named Kobe Bryant you have probably done your job. Then Granger was on VC when he went under a screen and Vince splashed the three. George came in and didn't close out on Vince. By the time Mike came in Vince was already going off.

    Pick your poison until Danny decides to play team defense as well. When you play Orlando you have to have people scrambling all over the place to get them to struggle. Ask Boston or Atlanta.
    Last edited by BringJackBack; 10-10-2010 at 03:01 PM.

  17. #39
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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    LEFTY jumper??
    John Hollinger doesn't know the difference between Kareem and Brandon.

    He got them mixed up. There's your baskeball guru for ya.

  18. #40
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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Why would you bring the athletic good 1-1 defender off the bench to guard very good scoring guards?? Those scoring guards are in the starting lineup. Also rush is the 4th option... He's not a go to guy... Period. His role can't be any better suited especially now when the focus is on hibbert and the inside game. Inside out offense, pick and roll offense, rush being a spot up shooter is perfect. Especially when the team needs him to guard that player that will drop 30-40 points easily if dunleavy is guarding them. I would definitely like him to be more aggressive but he is realistically the 4th option.

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  20. #41
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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    I like the way you twist things and leave out the most important words.

    Here is what I actually said:

    Better TEAM defender

    Mike Dunleavy is a better team defender than Brandon Rush. Watch the Orlando game for proof. Then watch the Houston game to see how Brandon was absolutely no where to be found when Yao got the ball in the very low post.

    And don't bring up that charge on Yao. That was off of his own careless turnnover that no one with any basketball IQ would do.
    The Orlando game really?? You mean when Vince Carter had how Many points? If anything that proves that rush is a way more important piece than mike.

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  22. #42

    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Neither is the answer to this teams SG position. Then neither is Dunleavy. All 3 could be traded today, and I wouldn't be upset.

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  24. #43
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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    DJones should not be playing. That much is easy.

    Now, for some painful truth about Brandon Rush. Rush is NEVER going to be a productive starting SG in the NBA. Also, he is not the guy you need to shoot daggers ala Reggie Miller. It just isn't going to happen. He may shoot for a decent percentage, but his forte will be defense...so he should come off the bench and be used to slow down scoring wings. That is the extent of what I expect from Rush and the extent the Pacers should try to use him.

    Instead, it is time to start grooming George for the position. Allow Dunleavy to start until George shows he can own the position. Have Rush be 3rd string off the bench or when an athletic defender is absolutely needed.
    Was Bruce Bowen a productive starting SF in the NBA?

  25. #44
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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by ThA HoyA View Post
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    The Orlando game really?? You mean when Vince Carter had how Many points? If anything that proves that rush is a way more important piece than mike.
    I like the way you twist things and leave out the most important words.

    Here is what I actually said:

    Better TEAM defender

    Mike Dunleavy is a better team defender than Brandon Rush. Watch the Orlando game for proof. Then watch the Houston game to see how Brandon was absolutely no where to be found when Yao got the ball in the very low post.

    And don't bring up that charge on Yao. That was off of his own careless turnnover that no one with any basketball IQ would do.


    Quote:
    Dunleavy was all that you are talking about, he is not that anymore, I guess you haven't seen him playing in the last two years.

    Considering that he was playing with absolutely no legs with zero confidence...


    Quote:
    I also know that the preseason is the preseason but Dunleavy is looking horrible, he is slow on defense and his guys scores at will even if that guy is the 12th man on the other teams roster, Vince Carter was abusing him in all the possible ways.

    And if he wouldn't have doubled Dwight DH would have been the one with 35 points. Vince had his first two points from a step back off Dunleavy. Anytime you get someone to do a step back not named Kobe Bryant you have probably done your job. Then Granger was on VC when he went under a screen and Vince splashed the three. George came in and didn't close out on Vince. By the time Mike came in Vince was already going off.

    Pick your poison until Danny decides to play team defense as well. When you play Orlando you have to have people scrambling all over the place to get them to struggle. Ask Boston or Atlanta.


    Mike also was one of the main causes for Dwight going 2 for 8. Leave that out too buddy. I never gave props to Mikes man to man defense.

    Use your common sense. Mike is better than Brandon. Brandon has never averaged double figures on 30 win teams with 30 minutes per game has a 1:1 assist to turnover ratio. His man to man is great, but with no team defense and no offense what does that give you?

    4 vs. 5

  26. #45
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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Was Bruce Bowen a productive starting SF in the NBA?
    Personally, I think Bowen was a better defender than Rush...but that's not why he was better. Bowen savored the clutch shot. Rush is the antithesis of a Reggie Miller type player. Rush hits for a good percentage but I don't think he wants the ball when the game is on the line. Call it the mental aspect of the game. Rush has everything physical but lacks a lot mentally. Bowen did not.

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  28. #46

    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Thank God that we've NOT as bad as the score indicated vs Houston. Houston played excellent team defense (as they must play in the Western Conference to compete against the Lakers, Jazz, San Antonio, etc. etc. . Even Orlando talked about taking 'controlling' of the game with their defense. You could SEE that they turned it UP a notch in the 2nd half and took control of the game with their defense. Cleveland (last year with Lebron), Miami, Atlanta, all play the same way. They seem to go through the motions to FEEL you out and then turn UP the defense to take control of the game. As Dwight Howard said after the game, defense wins championships.

    Well, it seems very obvious to me that the Pacers need to FOCUS on defense as well so we can win a few more games this year. We, at least, have the athletes to play defense although our FRONT LINE is not very physical and plays with a bit too much finesse. LB and Morway needs to find us a PHYSICAL starting PF and starting Center. Our back court and Wings are athletic enough and we should be okay but I'm tired of seeing our FRONT LINE (and Offense unit overall) get manhandled every night.

    If JOB or our coaching staff can't TEACH defense to our guys, we need to find another coach and/or staff!!! We all saw HOW the Magic defended the PnR. When we set a PICK, they would jump very aggressively to STOP our guy with the ball and destroy the PnR. On the other hand, we didn't JUMP out aggressively and they were able to consistently EXECUTE the PnR all night long without much resistance from us. Also, Hibbert turned the WRONG way on the PnR when we executed it. Instead of turning toward the ball after he set the PICK, he turned the opposite direction because he knew in JOB's offense, the ball was going to be passed to a Wing on the baseline.

    Wake up JOB and have the team FOCUS on DEFENSE first. We need to raise our defensive intensity and get turnovers from steals and deflections to start our offense. Until then, we'll continue to LOSE ugly.

  29. #47
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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    I've never thought Danny and Mike were a great combo on the floor. Granger gets most of the focus, and Dunleavy is relegated to a 3rd or 4th option. I'd rather see Dunleavy in the 2nd unit, like last night, as the 1st or 2nd scoring option.

    Having said that, I'd have to go with Rush in the starting 5. It doesn't mean I think he's better than Mike. The 'starter' mystique gets in the way of a good platooning rotation sometimes, seems to me.

    Dahntay's not in the hunt.
    Last edited by kester99; 10-10-2010 at 03:19 PM.
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  31. #48
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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Personally, I think Bowen was a better defender than Rush...but that's not why he was better. Bowen savored the clutch shot. Rush is the antithesis of a Reggie Miller type player. Rush hits for a good percentage but I don't think he wants the ball when the game is on the line. Call it the mental aspect of the game. Rush has everything physical but lacks a lot mentally. Bowen did not.
    I thought Brandon hit big shots for Kansas during their title run?

  32. #49
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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Is this a basketball decision or is your choice because Rush got suspended? sometimes I think people want to play the choir boy in Dunleavy because he is a nicer guy and does not get in trouble even though he is not that good anymore.
    Hardly. I have simply given up on Rush for the starting SG position. Dunleavy is like an interim coach that I would like to see go away, so stop with the choir boy stuff. The fact Rush had issues with pot is not all that important to me. I simply think he lacks the mental part of the game. Reggie Miller certainly wasn't as athletic but was far and away a better player. There is value to the mental aspect of the game that many here seem to miss entirely with Brandon. He gets an F in that category IMHO.

  33. #50

    Default Re: Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush

    What good are high percentage completions if you are reluctant to shoot? Not Dahntay or Brandon are the answer. Hopefully George!
    Game on the line or pacers behind? Don't look to Brandon because he doesn't want the ball. Defend the guy who has the ball, yes.

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