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Thread: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

  1. #26

    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    You're not the only person who's said this, but I just don't get it at all. Price has played 45 minutes in the preseason and has 2 assists. That's not really what you want from you starting PG. I love AJ, and I'm glad he's scoring well. The idea that he's really getting other guys going, however, is completely bogus.

    I tend to think that these last two games are probably good for this board. I've been cherishing the summer of good feelings as much as anybody, but I think it's important that we have a realistic idea of where we stand: Somewhere between 7 and 15 in a conference with 6 good teams.

    Yao, when healthy, is the best center in the NBA. Scola is a top 10 PF.

    I'm not impressed with our PG defense at all.

    I hope Foster silenced some of you tonight. 5 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 points in 8 minutes along with decent defense. We need him for 2 7-8 minute stretches per game. I think he can do it.
    I think AJ just doesn't have the ball in his hands as much, so it might feel that others are more involved. But I think both are looking for their shot equally (and I think both are supposed to)

    AJ's defense was better than Collison's tonight, but it sure seemed like Aaron was too quick for both of them. I think Collison struggles with the PnR defense, just because he gets bounced around so much.

  2. #27

    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    ya did see the end of the first game. He could of passed but chose to go into iso and we lost.
    Actually he did pass, and that's how he got a turnover. He should have shot it..

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    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Actually he did pass, and that's how he got a turnover. He should have shot it..
    http://www.nba.com/games/20101006/INDMEM/gameinfo.html 1:39


    He was trying to shoot but had two guys all of him and decided to pass when it was to late. But it is a moot point

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    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    I'm not impressed in general.

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    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    Lance looked more like Jim's point guard than the other guys tonight. He was the only one to initiate the offense and then run through to the weakside. I'm surprised people are calling for his head while Darren and AJ get a free pass and don't get others involved.

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    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    I have a feeling vs the Twolves they will play like they have something to prove.

  10. #32
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    Nothing is wrong with this team that experience won't help.

    They were hitting each other in the back with passes and throwing passes expecting a cutter. They need experience playing with each other. We as fans need to pull back on our expectations and just enjoy this group.

    Collison and Hans were rookie's last year. You might as well say Hans is still a rookie. Rush and Hibbert have two years experience, and Danny has five.

    Let's see, what other players are we high on? Paul, Lance and Rolle are all rookies and McRoberts is just now getting good playing time. Don't expect too much.

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  12. #33
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    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    Collison still didn't find others much and looks to shoot first and ask questions later due to that being how he is asked to play.
    Hmmm...this sounds familiar....where have I heard this before?

    I'll ask the question that has been in the back of my mind since we traded for DC....is he a better version of TJ that is better at defense, can hit the 3pt shot and isn't as prone to "dribbling into a forest of Big Men at full speed then have that deer in the headlights look to him that eventually turns it over"?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  13. #34

    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Hmmm...this sounds familiar....where have I heard this before?

    I'll ask the question that has been in the back of my mind since we traded for DC....is he a better version of TJ that is better at defense, can hit the 3pt shot and isn't as prone to "dribbling into a forest of Big Men at full speed then have that deer in the headlights look to him that eventually turns it over"?
    So he's TJ Ford without the bad habits? I'll take that.

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    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Granger is a bit deceptive. He's an academic type, religious, good solid citizen.

    But he does not play fundamental basketball.
    I think it's your fault for ever assuming 3 things that have nothing to do with basketball would have an impact on the way he plays. He's not being deceptive, just because you're a good guy off the court doesn't mean you're going to play a certain way on the court. I don't see how that adds up at all.

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    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    http://www.nba.com/games/20101006/INDMEM/gameinfo.html 1:39


    He was trying to shoot but had two guys all of him and decided to pass when it was to late. But it is a moot point
    I gotta agree with P4E on this point Sookie, AJ was looking for his shot the whole way and put him in a "TJ" type of position which sort of caused the turnover of course Roy did a horrible job making himself available as well.

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    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    Really, both guys are, as you say, playing the same system pretty much the same way, and just as they are being told to play it. For me, Price just is less frustrating to watch, kind of like a less outgoing Jarrett Jack with more quickness on defense and a better shot, at least so far.

    I guess I just need to get over the fact that the Pacers under the O'Brien system play a preferred lineup of 2, 2, 3, 3, 4/5, and ultimately would play the "quick" of Isiah Thomas that would have 4 guys capable of playing either the 2 or 3 with one big to clean up the messes. I will try to not look at Collison, Price, or Ford as point guards, and focus on the reality that TJ was probably plenty effective except for not hitting 3's and getting hung up in traffic when he made his decision to keep the ball and drive into traffic about a second or two sooner than Price, which was a prevalent theory for why O'B banished him. I will be surprised if Collison doesn't look strikingly similar to TJ (except for the PnR) unless other passers such as Dunleavy and McRoberts are able to stay on the floor to initiate the scoring portion of the offense, unless of course Collison hits shots better than TJ.

    The starters job is Collison's to lose, unquestionably. When, and I say when, the offense stagnates and turnovers rise during the regular season, Price will hopefully be ready to step in as the starter.

    However, my guess is that we will see the dreaded small ball with Ford and Collison at the 2's frequently, with Rush and Granger at the 3's, and Hibbert as the lone big. Roy's function in that lineup is to just move to the side and up top to clear the lane and stay out of the way of the dribble penetrations and hopefully act as the relief valve by being available to take, and hopefully hit, his 18 footers. I realize that there would be no hope of rebounds, but the Pacers have become accustomed to that over the last several seasons.

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    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    I like AJ, but I haven't seen him do a single thing that warrants beating out DC for the starting PG spot. They both look good, but DC has things that AJ just does not have.

    As far as AJ getting people involved more, I don't see it. DC was looking for people much more than AJ last night and the assists and scoring reflect that.

    Sometime I think some of you just want to make a change to make a change, it's like when you get tired of a lineup you've played with for a while in video games and just change something for the heck of it.

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    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    Just like when we went 5-0 at SL you guys said that it didn't mean anything.
    While I understand your point, the Summer League roster included Richard Hendrix, Thomas Heurtel, Adam Koch, Chris Kramer, Marcus Landry, James Mays, Russell Robinson, Bryce Taylor, Darryl Watkins, and Marcus Williams, to go with the rookies and Josh McRoberts.

    The preseason roster has just 2 guys that will not be a part of the regular season team.

    Huge difference in my opinion.

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    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    Until the Pacers run more PnR, we will never, never see the PG in Collison that we all thought we were acquiring. Without providing in our offense what Collison is best at, we simply will end up seeing a player that is never allowed to exhibit his full potential.

    To me that's like entering your thorougbread in the derby and saddling him with a 200 pound jockey.

    And after 20 games if that appears to still be the case, then I say shame on Bird.

  21. #41
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    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    Solo's defense was horrible.

    We couldn't feed Hibbert in the low post when Yao was out. Scola is crafty, but there's no excuse. I did like what I saw from Roy... he didn't give up and had some good dunks and low post moves... Just not enough of the.

    Danny had 0 FT attempts. Nuff said.

    AB was making DC look slow.

    Nasty dunk by Budinger.

    Hans looked decent and we missed Mac.

  22. #42
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    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    Until the Pacers run more PnR, we will never, never see the PG in Collison that we all thought we were acquiring. Without providing in our offense what Collison is best at, we simply will end up seeing a player that is never allowed to exhibit his full potential.

    To me that's like entering your thorougbread in the derby and saddling him with a 200 pound jockey.

    And after 20 games if that appears to still be the case, then I say shame on Bird.
    It seemed to me they ran a number of pick and when Collision was in the game Friday and Saturday night. But the magic trapped the pick and roll and the rockets sort of did. Also it didn't look like the pacers ran the pick and roll with much conviction, lazy pick set made it easy defend.

    My pure guess is maybe they haven't worked on it that much yet. As I mentioned in the game thread - training camp/preseason is a 4 week process, the goal is not to be ready for the preseason games but rather the regular season games
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 10-10-2010 at 11:53 AM.

  23. #43
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    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    It seemed to me they ran a number of pick and when Collision was in the game Friday and Saturday night. But the magic trapped the pick and roll and the rockets sort of did. Also it didn't look like the pacers ran the pick and roll with much conviction, lazy pick set made it easy defend.

    My pure guess is maybe they haven't worked on it that much yet. As I mentioned in the game thread - training camp/preseason is a 4 week process, the goal is not to be ready for the preseason games but rather the regular season games
    Without beef, Roy just isn't very good at setting hard picks. McRoberts might end up OK at it but it would take time in my opinion because he is more of a finesse and jumping player, and I am a huge McRoberts fan. Foster is not the old Jeff and might not be able to get out there to do it like he used to, and might not be able to withstand the pounding for long if he did. That leaves the primary player best able to set physical, hard picks being Hansbrough, but that would require him spending more time up top than I think O'Brien would want him to with his primary offensive contributions being rebounds, putbacks, and free throws.

    Who else should be used? Granger? I hope not. Surely not Posey...

    Unfortunately, Dale Davis is not available...unless we figure out how to have him come in as a second big man coach that specializes in teaching toughness and physicality as opposed to finesse.

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    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    Without beef, Roy just isn't very good at setting hard picks. McRoberts might end up OK at it but it would take time in my opinion because he is more of a finesse and jumping player, and I am a huge McRoberts fan. Foster is not the old Jeff and might not be able to get out there to do it like he used to, and might not be able to withstand the pounding for long if he did. That leaves the primary player best able to set physical, hard picks being Hansbrough, but that would require him spending more time up top than I think O'Brien would want him to with his primary offensive contributions being rebounds, putbacks, and free throws.

    Who else should be used? Granger? I hope not. Surely not Posey...

    Unfortunately, Dale Davis is not available...unless we figure out how to have him come in as a second big man coach that specializes in teaching toughness and physicality as opposed to finesse.
    dont know if that can by learned I think your born with it.

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  26. #45
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    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness View Post
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    Preseason...
    It was also pre-season for the Rockets, and the other teams the Pacers have played. Regardless, this team needs to improve and have the pieces gel One talented piece has been added in Collison, but because of the position he plays it WILL take time for acclimation between him and his 'mates. More than if he played any other position.

    The rookies? Let's just say that they aren't on my "untouchables" list, and "born ready" had better start kicking his own rear hard and get with it. Young or not.

  27. #46

    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I like AJ, but I haven't seen him do a single thing that warrants beating out DC for the starting PG spot. They both look good, but DC has things that AJ just does not have.

    As far as AJ getting people involved more, I don't see it. DC was looking for people much more than AJ last night and the assists and scoring reflect that.

    Sometime I think some of you just want to make a change to make a change, it's like when you get tired of a lineup you've played with for a while in video games and just change something for the heck of it.
    I think it's pretty easy to argue that AJ has outplayed Collison, on both ends of the floor. I don't know that it will continue to be the case, but it's pretty easy to argue. And I don't think that Collison being more "exciting" and "athletic" should equal him being the starter. He can get in the Lane better than AJ because he's quicker, but AJ's been finishing better, and AJ has drawn the most fouls. He's faster than AJ, but AJ pretty clearly defended Brooks and that other little PG a lot better last night. And he's not 100% on his knee. Other than Collison getting more assists, Price has pretty clearly outplayed him. (and that's not nearly as big of a deal when you consider which whom each was playing with)


    Collison got more assists (and more turnovers), but he's also playing with a group that actually makes shots. Realistically, how many assists does anyone expect AJ to get with Paul, Solo, Posey, and Rush/Dun/Lance..in 12 minutes? First of all, one of those guys actually has to make a shot (and Dun's got a good percentage, but that's one player..) And then second, in this passing offense he has to be the one to actually pass it, instead of just starting the offense. Not to mention, if he didn't look for his shot with those guys, it'd get ugly really quickly.

    (and all that being said, I'm not crazy about the way he's playing. I know it's the offense, but I really liked this kid's game because he was one of the best PGs I've seen with knowing when to pass and shoot. I mean, he's averaging about 7 or 8 shots in about 13 minutes right now. He averaged about 11 shots in around 36 minutes a game his Junior and senior year. And he was hesitant to shoot if he started missing. So as I've been saying, because of his all around skillset you can stick him in whatever offense you like..and he'll fit..but sheesh..)

    In Collison's defense, he's trying to learn a new system and figure out how to become a staring guard. AJ is fighting for playing time in a system he's already familiar with, as an underdog. Collison is clearly under more pressure, and he's trying to fit in a system he's not comfortable with. I think it's only fair to give him time.

    I don't think I'd change for other reasons as well. I think you need AJ's scoring and steadiness off the bench, and Collison hasn't "lost" the spot. I think in a young team you need to find different players that gell together, and play them. And I'd be hesitant to shake things up just yet.
    Last edited by Sookie; 10-10-2010 at 01:19 PM.

  28. #47
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    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    As I mentioned in the game thread - training camp/preseason is a 4 week process, the goal is not to be ready for the preseason games but rather the regular season games
    im actually surprised how few days of practice before the first preseason game.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  29. #48

    Default Re: Generals at Globetrotters Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    It seemed to me they ran a number of pick and when Collision was in the game Friday and Saturday night. But the magic trapped the pick and roll and the rockets sort of did. Also it didn't look like the pacers ran the pick and roll with much conviction, lazy pick set made it easy defend.

    My pure guess is maybe they haven't worked on it that much yet. As I mentioned in the game thread - training camp/preseason is a 4 week process, the goal is not to be ready for the preseason games but rather the regular season games
    Orlando talked about taking 'controlling' of the game with their defense. You could SEE that they turned it UP a notch in the 2nd half and took control of the game with their defense. Cleveland (last year with Lebron), Miami, Atlanta, all play the same way. They seem to go through the motions to FEEL you out and then turn UP the defense to take control of the game. As Dwight Howard said after the game, defense wins championships.

    Well, it seems very obvious to me that the Pacers need to FOCUS on defense as well so we can win a few more games this year. We, at least, have the athletes to play defense although our FRONT LINE is not very physical and plays with a bit too much finesse. LB and Morway needs to find us a PHYSICAL starting PF and starting Center. Our back court and Wings are athletic enough and we should be okay but I'm tired of seeing our FRONT LINE (and Offense unit overall) get manhandled every night.

    If JOB or our coaching staff can't TEACH defense to our guys, we need to find another coach and/or staff!!! We all saw HOW the Magic defended the PnR. When we set a PICK, they would jump very aggressively to STOP our guy with the ball and destroy the PnR. On the other hand, we didn't JUMP out aggressively and they were able to consistently EXECUTE the PnR all night long without much resistance from us. Also, Hibbert turned the WRONG way on the PnR when we executed it. Instead of turning toward the ball after he set the PICK, he turned the opposite direction because he knew in JOB's offense, the ball was going to be passed to a Wing on the baseline. What a wasted opportunity.
    Last edited by TooBigNdaPaint; 10-10-2010 at 03:06 PM.

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