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Thread: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

  1. #351
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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

    Quote Originally Posted by flox View Post
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    Midrange spacing is not the same as 3pt spacing. Just ask the Spurs what difference McDyess and Bonner makes, or what difference Jefferson and Finley makes.
    If you look at the guys that were playing besides Duncan when they won championships they were not jump shooters in fact Duncan was the one spacing the floor at times while the other guy was inside to get a rebound or a lay up.

    I am not sure but I think the guys were Robinson, Oberto, Mohammed and Elson, they used the stretch forwads at times(Horry and others)

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    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

    Quote Originally Posted by judicata View Post
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    Josh does not spread the floor. He has yet to show he is any kind of threat in even the mid-range thus far. Just because he chucked a lot of 3s in training camp and Summer League doesn't mean other teams are going to respect his range in a real game where they will close and put a hand in his face. Tyler has hit the 15 footer in games, something I have not seen Josh do.

    Even if I accept your 3 points, you are missing what I consider the most important point: Josh is soft, both mentally and physically. He does not like to bang, he likes to fly. Roy looked physically weak (but very skilled) out there too, and the Pacers need someone pushing bodies around the paint.

    I think its funny that mere weeks after the Matador is gone we have fans who want a floor-spreading PF who treats contact like taking out the garbage: an unfortunate necessity.

    As for defense, I care a lot more about having a PF that bodies up his man and keeps from from the low post than having an athletic guy who can knock a home run weak-side block into the stands twice a game.

    Obviously we value different things in players. I think it is a great luxury to have the kind of fight at this position as they do, and I hope that both prove themselves worthy of the minutes (not just because the Pacers have no other options, either.)
    I don't think that Josh is soft at all.

    He rebounds, runs the floor, draws fouls, and defends himself. He is a very emotional player who fouls hard.

    A soft player has slow feet, doesn't rebound in traffic, doesn't foul, camps, doesn't play defense, doesn't care if he gets crossed or burnt, all that.

    This is like the Pau Gasol thing.

    Back then he used to not play good defense, he used to be undecisive, and he used to not rebound in traffic.

    Now he does all the opposite. However, he still gets called soft. Why? Because his skill set involves passing and getting others involved along with a mid range game and fadeaways. IMO softness should be based on the little things you do and your demeanor on the court (Vince Carter compared to Paul Pierce in the Playoffs), and not on your style of play (Kevin Garnett or Pau Gasol, they are both going to bring it and you better work your *** off on defense)

    No one wants another stretch four camper. But we don't mind a versatile player with good offensive rebounding and great passing and athleticism.

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  4. #353
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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

    Softness is determined by the choices a player makes, not merely their style of play. How often they take action that results in discomfort or pain or exhaustion or some combination of the above.

    Style of play is still a factor, and it isn't looking pretty or making sparkly passes that makes it so. Power Forwards who roam the perimeter and shun the paint are softer than real bangers. Wings and Guards who are scared to get chopped to the wood and shoot Js are softer than insatiable rim fiends who get at the hoop relentlessly.

    As the season goes on, we will be able to tell for certain. I have watched Josh a very long time, and he has only recently started to embrace his position and the bruises that come with it.

  5. #354
    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

    Quote Originally Posted by judicata View Post
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    Softness is determined by the choices a player makes, not merely their style of play. How often they take action that results in discomfort or pain or exhaustion or some combination of the above.

    Style of play is still a factor, and it isn't looking pretty or making sparkly passes that makes it so. Power Forwards who roam the perimeter and shun the paint are softer than real bangers. Wings and Guards who are scared to get chopped to the wood and shoot Js are softer than insatiable rim fiends who get at the hoop relentlessly.

    As the season goes on, we will be able to tell for certain. I have watched Josh a very long time, and he has only recently started to embrace his position and the bruises that come with it.
    Agreed. But our real banger is not as good as our versatile four. Very close, but not quite.

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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    Agreed. But our real banger is not as good as our versatile four. Very close, but not quite.
    I disagree, but am looking forward to both of the gentlemen presenting their cases over the next few months.

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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

    Quote Originally Posted by judicata View Post
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    Even if I accept your 3 points, you are missing what I consider the most important point: Josh is soft, both mentally and physically. He does not like to bang, he likes to fly. Roy looked physically weak (but very skilled) out there too, and the Pacers need someone pushing bodies around the paint.

    Obviously we aren't watching the same Josh McRoberts then..

    I think Josh is far from being "soft" as you put it ..
    Just because he doesn't play with reckless abandon,(aka TH) doesn't mean he is soft..

    I am serious , I really think that some people here are watching these games from an alternate timeline/universe.. and this applies to the Pacers as a whole..

    heh


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    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

    Quote Originally Posted by judicata View Post
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    I disagree, but am looking forward to both of the gentlemen presenting their cases over the next few months.
    Most definently.

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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
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    Obviously we aren't watching the same Josh McRoberts then..

    I think Josh is far from being "soft" as you put it ..
    Just because he doesn't play with reckless abandon,(aka TH) doesn't mean he is soft..

    I am serious , I really think that some people here are watching these games from an alternate timeline/universe.. and this applies to the Pacers as a whole..

    heh


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    To be fair, Josh wouldn't be nearly as soft if the Allies had won WWII.

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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

    I didn't get to see a minute of the game tonight. Tried to read this entire thread and I got to page 10 without seeing a single reference to tonight's game being the first back to back of the young season. Can we take any solace in that? I think Miami got blown out tonight on the road in their first back to back. Heard LBJ didn't play much though.
    Last edited by focused444; 10-10-2010 at 01:38 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

    Quote Originally Posted by focused444 View Post
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    I didn't get to see a minute of the game tonight. Tried to read this entire thread and I got to page 10 without seeing a single reference to tonight's game being the first back to back of the young season. Can we take any solace in that? I think Miami got blown out tonight on the road in their first back to back. Heard LBJ didn't play much though.
    i said something about that idk wat page thoe

  13. #361
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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

    Didn't catch the game (looks like a blessing) but jeez it looked rough! allowing nearly 60% from the field doesnt scream defence to me, what happened did they jus have one of those cant miss nights, our did we make it easy for them? One other issue, when will PG make a shot? kids having a rough preseason! welcome to the NBA.

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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3


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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

    Didn't see the game last night for because I don't have NBA TV, nor did I get a chance to hear Mark and Slick.....after seeing the final score I just gotta ask what the hell happened out there last night in Houston???
    Last edited by Mr_Smith; 10-10-2010 at 07:58 AM.
    Fire up that tank and drive it to the lottery then to the draft

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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Smith View Post
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    Didn't see the game last night for because I don't have NBA TV, nor did I get a chance to hear Mark and Slick.....after seeing the final score I just gotta ask what the hell happened out there last night in Houston???
    Simple answer, a mediocre team played a solid, seasoned Rockets team.

    But as pointed out, it is pre-season and the guys try to build some chemistry, some routines and get a feel for each other's play. I liked what I see in the first half though.

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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    In other words is it not possible to say yes it is pre-season basketball & I completely understand that we did not see rotations, plays and minutes played as they would be in the regular season however what I did see gives me pause to be concerned?

    Or can it only be "well it's just pre-season so none of this means a thing" or "OMG the Pacers are going to suck suck suck this year and oh btw Jim O'Brien is the devil".
    That is a good point. What I object to is for anyone to draw conclusions based upon a preseason game (or for that matter on a regular season game) you have to look at a series of games. However that does mean you cannot make observations based upon a preseason game or even a practice.

    But there is a big difference between an observation - The defense is doing a poor job closing out on the three point shooters and the young guys seem a little lost. Vs a conclusion. The defense stinks, same old same old. This team is terrible just like always.

    And to clarify my overall point, I am not suggesting preseason games don't mean a thing. I said the outcome, the won loss record doesn't mean a thing. I think it is important to play some good ball in the preseason at some point - unless you are the Lakers or a very veteran team.

    Unless there are significant injuries or an unknown player comes out of nowhere, I never change my league wide predictions based on an anything that happens in the preseason. I would never suggest wow the Cavs are playing well in preseason, maybe they are better than I thought, I will include them in my playoff predictions. I would never do that for other teams so I am certainly not going to do it for the Pacers.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 10-11-2010 at 08:43 AM.

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  19. #366
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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

    The concerns need to be put into context. We have several things going on here. First, we have a lot of inexperienced players. We also have several players coming off injury who are rusty. We are still short on talent, but the inexperience...and inexperience playing together is killing us. Paul George is going to be a good player, but he's still a baby...but he's getting a lot playing time that is costing us...although it's a great investment. Feel good about that. Our best PF, yes Josh, has not been available. I am sure that has hurt us. Instead Tyler has played and spent time working off rust. Both of our PG's are young...even though they show promise.

    The bottom line is that Rome was not built in a day. The fact we now have more talented players does not mean we will not be losing games due to inexperience. Not every player comes into the league like Lebron at 18 and plays like an all-star. This will take time and this season we should see some growth. But for now, this is way too early.

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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

    Looks like a missed a blow-out last night. Was at the Chicago Marathon whereas 100,000 runners and 300,000 other people 'booked' nearly every hotel room in the city. From reading all of the posts (15 pages), it looks like we stunk it up after half-time after we inserted Dahntay and Solo. Interestingly, these are the exact two guys that I would TRADE this year. Even with their prior NBA experience, they don't seem to make much of an impact when they're inserted in any game.

    I also agree that JOB may need to go. If our team rarely practices or plays the PnR in JOB's offense, how in the hell do we expect them to be able to defend it in real games. LB needs to hire Rick Adelman or some other 'experienced' NBA assistant coach from one of the better teams in the NBA. Our young guys need an experienced NBA Coach to teach them the nuances of the NBA game.

    JOB's motion offense sounds like a good idea but he's not a great teacher nor motivator nor does his coaching staff appear to know how to scout opponent's tendencies. Do we even run our upcoming opponent's offense and defensive sets so our projected starters can see it before the games are played. If so, then I apologize to JOB and chaulk up the lost to whoever didn't show up in the third quarter when they blew us out and momentum turned in their favor for the rest of the game.

    P.S. Simon may need to hire new 'talent evaluators' as well. Funny how some teams have a stable of young studs developing on the bench. Our probably starters wouldn't even make it to the bench or would play only backup minutes at the most.

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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    If you look at the guys that were playing besides Duncan when they won championships they were not jump shooters in fact Duncan was the one spacing the floor at times while the other guy was inside to get a rebound or a lay up.

    I am not sure but I think the guys were Robinson, Oberto, Mohammed and Elson, they used the stretch forwads at times(Horry and others)
    Horry was used more than Elson/Mohammed, he was so important.

    Other times you saw more of a small 4 with duncan at the 5. or more importantly for duncan, 3 wings, a center that smelled like a wing, played like a wing, but was a center, and duncan down low as a power forward.

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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

    Quote Originally Posted by flox View Post
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    Other times you saw more of a small 4 with duncan at the 5. or more importantly for duncan, 3 wings, a center that smelled like a wing, played like a wing, but was a center, and duncan down low as a power forward.
    Duncan has played center since 2003.

    You can start a guy like Oberto or Horry or whoever you want and announce as the center in pre-game intros, but Duncan has been the guy who has actually been PLAYING center.

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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Duncan has played center since 2003.

    You can start a guy like Oberto or Horry or whoever you want and announce as the center in pre-game intros, but Duncan has been the guy who has actually been PLAYING center.
    Out of respect to duncan to doesn't want to be called a center I usually call him a power forward.

    But yes, he has been playing center.

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    Default Re: Pacers at Rockets Preseason Game 3

    I'm not going to get all worked up until this team has had a little more time to play with one another.

    Brand new point guard. PF that was stuck on the bench, other PF missed most of the season. Backup center missed the season. Starting SG was healing from knee injury. 3 new rookies.

    I do feel I can go the entire regular season w/o Dahntay, Posey and Solo. Just my opinion based off of what I've seen

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