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Thread: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

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    Default Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/web_101007.html



    Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic


    by Conrad Brunner

    10/7/10

    Granted, you don't want to read too much into statistics from a preseason game, especially the first. And certainly, you don't want to draw conclusions from the Pacers' 49-35 rebounding deficit in their 87-85 loss in Memphis Wednesday night.

    Or do you?

    "I think you can draw the conclusion it's a problem," said Coach Jim O'Brien. "That's the conclusion I drew."

    As the Pacers head into back-to-back preseason games Friday against Orlando in Conseco Fieldhouse and Saturday in Houston, suffice to say that is one team statistic that will attract plenty of attention in the locker room.

    The Pacers ranked 28th in the NBA in rebound percentage last season. The subtraction of Troy Murphy's 10.2 per game (11th in the league) makes the issue more acute.

    "I don't think we will be less of a rebounding team than we were last year," said O'Brien. "I think we will be a better rebounding team than we were last year. I think we'll be a much better offensive rebounding team and I think we'll be as good of a defensive rebounding team. I don't think it'll go the other way."

    To do so, however, the Pacers must strengthen their collective approach. In Memphis, Roy Hibbert and Josh McRoberts combined for 17 rebounds. The other 12 players combined for 18.

    "I thought Roy and Josh did a very good job on the glass," said O'Brien. "We are not getting a commitment from the rest of the team, meaning our perimeter guys. Right now you look at Danny (Granger)'s 6-8 on a wing, Mike (Dunleavy)'s 6-9, we're bringing Paul George off the bench at 6-9; they need to be battling. Even our point guard needs to come back."

    Hibbert, McRoberts impressive together

    The frontcourt combination of Hibbert and McRoberts proved the highlight of the game. Hibbert played 31 minutes and produced 18 points, 10 rebounds and two blocked shots. McRoberts played 25 minutes and had 14 points, seven rebounds, four assists, two steals and a block.

    Those two combined to hit 13-of-17 (.765) from the field, while the rest of the team was 16 of 60 (.267).

    "It was encouraging to get a lot of minutes out there," said McRoberts. "I have a lot of room for improvement. I turned the ball over too much and obviously our offense and defense can be better all-around. The first preseason game, you kind of work some things out, see where you're at. It's a good measuring stick."

    The two had been impressive when paired together throughout training camp and O'Brien was pleased with how that translated in a game situation.

    "I thought they had outstanding games," he said. "Roy is a guy I want to get used to playing 30-plus minutes. Roy really played within himself, was not getting low-post touches not because we weren't calling his plays, they were fronting him and we weren't executing the high-low situation. He found ways to get the job done.

    "Josh was outstanding in hustle stats, deflecting the basketball, running the court, by and large making sound decisions even though he had four turnovers they were things he normally doesn't do, turnovers he normally doesn't make. He took what was there, didn't have to force the issue. I really like the growth I see in both Roy and Josh."

    Vets take a back seat in early exhibitions

    O'Brien said he intends to give heavy minutes to younger players early in the preseason, which means a lighter load for veterans. Mike Dunleavy, for example, started at shooting guard but played jus 16 minutes. Jeff Foster played six off the bench. James Posey and Dahntay Jones also played less than 16 apiece.

    "The first three or four games, I'm not worried about the rotation," said O'Brien. "I wanted to get Mike a run, I wanted to get Jeff a run, I wanted to get as much playing time for our younger guys as I could because once you get toward the end of the preseason, chances are your younger guys aren't going to get as much playing time unless they've earned it. I'm trying to give them a good look.

    "I like giving both Jeff and Mike a feel for being in and out of the game but I won't necessarily over-play any of our veterans until we get down to like the last three preseason games when I get more towards a regular rotation."

    After Saturday, the Pacers don't play again until Wednesday (Oct. 13) against Minnesota in Conseco Fieldhouse.

    -------------

    Posted mainly because it seemed like time for fresh thread.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    Playing hard defense and rebounding is a man's game. We already know that Hibbert and McBob were OK rebounding the rock but both should have grabbed more defensive rebounds based on playing the most minutes. Four Memphis players had at least 5 rebounds and two of the four had six defensive rebounds each. Only McBob had 5 defensive rebounds but he should have had more in 25 minutes. Hibbert only had 4 defensive rebounds in 31 minutes although he did get 6 offensive rebounds. In fact, three backup Memphis players had 4 or 5 defensive rebounds and they played 15, 19, and 24 minutes respectively. In any event, it's time for our resident 'star' (Danny Granger) to start setting the example and break a sweat playing defense and crashing the boards for offensive put-backs and defensive rebounds. If he starts to do this, the others will follow. If he's soft as pancakes, it'll be a long season for us.....again.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    I think rebounding will get better if we don't play SFs at the PF position...

    Yes everyone needs to contribute, however, when we play a smaller lineup, we're putting ourselves at a disadvantage.

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    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    As a writer for the Grizz stated: "The Grizzlies’ most impressive defensive stand came in the fourth quarter when they held the Pacers to 16 points on 25 percent shooting. Memphis aggressively closed in on shooters, rotated quickly to form double teams and crowded the paint to generate turnovers and force Indiana into hurried shots." You think maybe JOB can 'teach' our guys to do likewise in the fourth quarter or we'll lose alot of close games this year.

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    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic not just that game but that is the key to the season

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    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I think rebounding will get better if we don't play SFs at the PF position...
    It should also get slightly better just by not playing Memphis every game. The Grizz was the best NBA team last season when it came to rebounding.

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    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    Where were the Pacers under the boards? Were they waiting for Troy Murphy to steal their defensive rebounds?

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    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/sports/pac...for-home-debut
    Pacers rookies ready for home debut
    Updated: Thursday, 07 Oct 2010, 6:01 PM EDT
    Published : Thursday, 07 Oct 2010, 6:00 PM EDT

    CLIFF BRUNT, AP Sports Writer
    INDIANAPOLIS (AP) - Lance Stephenson has gotten off to the wrong kind of start with Indiana Pacers fans.

    The second-round draft pick was arrested in August in New York on assault, menacing and harassment charges. Prosecutors said he pushed his girlfriend down a flight of stairs, then grabbed her and hit her head on the bottom step.

    Indiana's preseason game Friday against the Orlando Magic offers Stephenson his first chance to show fans the enormous talent that drove team president Larry Bird to select him, despite having been in trouble before.

    "I'd like to prove to everybody that I work hard, and I'm trying to get better every day on the court," Stephenson said after Thursday's practice. "I just want to show everybody that I'm very talented and that I'm ready to win."

    After a string of off-the-court troubles for Pacers players in recent years, Stephenson reminded fans of what they had hoped to leave behind. These are fans, after all, who have openly booed their own players who get in trouble with the law, with Stephen Jackson and Jamaal Tinsley being the best examples in recent years.

    Stephenson, who has an Oct. 19 court date, knows that it will be a challenge to win them over.

    "I'm just trying to move forward, get on the right track, make sure everybody on the team is happy, and especially the people off the court, like my fans and the Pacers fans," he said.

    Stephenson dominated the Orlando Summer League, but coach Jim O'Brien said the 20-year-old's conditioning has suffered because he has spent so much time dealing with the case.

    "The situation that he found himself in hurt him from a standpoint of continuing development from the summer league," O'Brien said recently. "For me to say anything other than that would be misleading. That being said, I think he is a talent that is at a level that people will be very, very surprised at."

    Stephenson played 12 minutes in Wednesday's 87-85 loss at Memphis, posting 4 points on 1-for-4 shooting as a reserve.

    Stephenson joins first-round choice Paul George and second-round pick Magnum Rolle in a rookie class that O'Brien has praised for its athletic ability.

    Rolle, a 6-foot-11 forward, averaged 13.9 points and 8.4 rebounds for Louisiana Tech last season and led the Western Athletic Conference with 2.1 blocks per game. He went 0-for-3 from the field and did not score in eight minutes against Memphis.

    George averaged 17 points and 7 rebounds per game as a sophomore at Fresno State last season. He played 26 minutes Wednesday against Memphis, and said he had to adjust quickly because the NBA game presents new challenges.

    "Not necessarily faster, but there's a lot more thought process in it," he said. "Guys are stronger, more physical."

    He finished with 4 points on 2-for-9 shooting and wants to improve those numbers on Friday.

    "I'm excited," he said. "I thought I played well despite not knocking down the shots that I wanted to. I think that will come as I get my legs and get the feel of the game flow."
    ____________________
    Didn't warrant it's own thread but I thought this was an appropriate place for it. It will be interesting to see how George responds to his first preseason game.

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    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Posted mainly because it seemed like time for fresh thread.
    You, sir, are a scholar and a gentleman.
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    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by TooBigNdaPaint View Post
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    As a writer for the Grizz stated: "The Grizzlies’ most impressive defensive stand came in the fourth quarter when they held the Pacers to 16 points on 25 percent shooting. Memphis aggressively closed in on shooters, rotated quickly to form double teams and crowded the paint to generate turnovers and force Indiana into hurried shots." You think maybe JOB can 'teach' our guys to do likewise in the fourth quarter or we'll lose alot of close games this year.
    Dude, we played a garbage time lineup for almost the entire fourth quarter. Don't stress.
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

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    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Dude, we played a garbage time lineup for almost the entire fourth quarter. Don't stress.

    What did the grizz play in the 4th?
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    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    Rebounding - over the long term could well determine whether we have another disappointing season or make noticeable improvement. Even if that doesn't mean a .500 record. Create more offensive opportunities and, most importantly, complete successful defensive possession. A stop in never a stop until you control the D glass. JOB's got one thing right. To succeed here we need significant, regular buy-in from all positions.
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    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    It's all up to Roy now and maybe Josh and Tyler too.

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    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I think rebounding will get better if we don't play SFs at the PF position...

    Yes everyone needs to contribute, however, when we play a smaller lineup, we're putting ourselves at a disadvantage.
    I think this is a good point. If we undersize ourselves at PF, we will pay for it through weaker rebounding.

    But I would go further than this. My contention would be that our rebounding will remain weak until other players on the floor (SF, SG, PG) dedicate themselves to improving our rebounding. I would place most of this responsibility squarely on the shoulders of our SF, Danny Granger.

    I think that quite often, we want to get out and run on the break to the extent that our readiness to run starts before we even have possession of the ball.

    This team, despite our preceived improvements of its roster, is still a team that has very little margin of error in order to achieve a win. Certainly we have to limit our turnovers and be efficient in our ability to score. But I think a big factor in achieving wins will be in controlling our opponent's second chance opportunities. With or without Murphy, if we aren't more successful at defensive rebounding, most games will be a struggle to win.

    At times, I think that we stress getting out on the break to the extent that our defensive rebounding percentages are hurt. I think we have to achieve a better balance in our approach to the break. Run, but not at the expense of getting defensive rebounds.

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    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    What did the grizz play in the 4th?
    I have no link. but 2 or 3 of their starters were still in during the forth. Atleast that is what the updating live box score stated.

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    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    I'll never forget the game Roy played last season against Dwight, where Roy lit him up.

    Roy had 26 points, 8 rebs and 4 blocks

    http://www.nba.com/games/20100105/OR...#nbaGIboxscore
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    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    No doubt rebounding will be one of the factors to watch for this team.

    But yet again another article with glowing quotes from Obie about Roy and Josh. If it is just "coach speak" (which to be honest I'm not sure this phrase even makes sense), then he is awfully committed to it. I'm excited to see the team tonight against Orlando.

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    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    But I would go further than this. My contention would be that our rebounding will remain weak until other players on the floor (SF, SG, PG) dedicate themselves to improving our rebounding. I would place most of this responsibility squarely on the shoulders of our SF, Danny Granger.
    I agree the backcourt players can step up and make a major rebounding contribution, but the reason the Pacers were (and possibly will be) a weak rebounding team is the poor rebounding from their big men. The backcourt players were either above average (Rush, Ford, I expect Paul George to be a very good rebounder for a wing) or at least average (even though I agree that some guys ought to do better ,especially Granger, he's the ability to be more productive rebounding-wise). So, I'm not sure there's a huge margin of improvement when it comes to rebounding from the backcourt.

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    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    http://www.indycornrows.com/2010/9/2...-pacer-preview
    by John Hollinger

    Biggest Weakness: Rebounding

    There's no way to sugarcoat this -- the Pacers are going to get absolutely pounded on the glass. Even if Hansbrough turns out to be a monster, they'll linger among the league's bottom two or three teams in rebound rate; if he does anything short of that, they'll challenge Phoenix for dead last.

    Pacers' rebound rates, 2009-10
    Player Reb. rate
    Murphy 17.2
    Hansbrough 14.7
    McRoberts 13.2
    Hibbert 12.4
    S. Jones 11.6
    Posey 11.2*
    Dunleavy 8.7
    Granger 8.2
    *Played for New Orleans

    The chart shows the math: Last season Murphy was far and away the team's best rebounder, and he isn't around anymore. Hansbrough and McRoberts, the two probable replacements, grab about 4 percent fewer rebounds between them. That's a large difference, but it becomes a staggering gap if the Pacers go small and use somebody like Posey or Granger as the power forward.

    Murphy played nearly 60 percent of the Pacers' minutes last season; the resulting decline in the team's rebound rate would be on the order of 2½ percent if all his minutes went to Hansbrough/McRoberts, and considerably more if they went to smaller players.

    Indiana's 71.4 rebound rate a year ago was 29th in the league; Golden State, at 68.0, was the worst rebounding team in history last season. Take off 2½ percent to 3 percent based on the Murphy calculation above, and my back-of-the-envelope numbers project Indy's rebound rate to land between 68.5 and 69.0, depending on how often the Pacers play small. That wouldn't quite make them the worst rebounding team in history, but it would almost certainly make them the worst in the league.The one possible antidote would be a return to health from Foster. He missed nearly all of last season to undergo back surgery and has been plagued by health problems for the past several years, but when he plays he's a freak on the glass. Just 15-20 minutes a night from him as a backup center would provide considerable improvement.
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    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    I think Rush could be key to our rebounding, he has shown the ability to be a very good rebounding two guard. I also think Collison can offer improved rebounding at the PG position, and Danny, as he is in a lot of ways with this team, might be the lynch pin. He needs to pick up his rebounding to around 7-8 per game, which I think he can do.

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    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    I'll never forget the game Roy played last season against Dwight, where Roy lit him up.

    Roy had 26 points, 8 rebs and 4 blocks

    http://www.nba.com/games/20100105/OR...#nbaGIboxscore
    I was there! Center Court, 10 rows up. Couldn't have had a better seat and indeed, a great game.

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    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by cordobes View Post
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    I agree the backcourt players can step up and make a major rebounding contribution, but the reason the Pacers were (and possibly will be) a weak rebounding team is the poor rebounding from their big men. The backcourt players were either above average (Rush, Ford, I expect Paul George to be a very good rebounder for a wing) or at least average (even though I agree that some guys ought to do better ,especially Granger, he's the ability to be more productive rebounding-wise). So, I'm not sure there's a huge margin of improvement when it comes to rebounding from the backcourt.
    My belief is that when you are near the bottom of the league in rebounding percentages, that you are forced to make a change.

    The Pacers routinely send 2 guys to the defensive boards, but as you suggest, they are apparently not getting the job done. When the Pacers are about even or within a board or two of the opposition in rebounding, then they "are still in the game". If we are looking at -8 or -10 on the boards, then without being at the top of their game in most other areas, they likely are not going to win.

    In my opinion, if 2 guys aren't getting the job done, you either put in someone else to replace them and improve upon their performance, or you use more players to block out and get the boards. For better or worse, with the possible exception of playing Foster more, we have our best rebounders in the game in Hibbert/McBob or Hibbert/Hansbrough.

    Therefore, other than perhaps changing up the defensive shemes/positioning a bit, the only way we get more rebounds is to sacrifice some on the break and send additional players to the defensive boards.

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    Default Re: Rebounding key as Pacers host Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I think Rush could be key to our rebounding, he has shown the ability to be a very good rebounding two guard. I also think Collison can offer improved rebounding at the PG position, and Danny, as he is in a lot of ways with this team, might be the lynch pin. He needs to pick up his rebounding to around 7-8 per game, which I think he can do.
    Rush has some nice highlight reel rebounds, but he's certainly not going to be key to our rebounding issues.

    This team does not have the horses to be even an average rebounding club, so we will struggle in that area. However, if Tyler and Foster are productive the problem will be relatively minor. If just one of those guys is a solid contributor, we will not be in the cellar of the NBA in that department. If they are both unavailable, we may be exactly as described above and will lose numerous games simply because we cannot control the boards. I think it really does come down to that.

    Also, I think Tyler and Foster are key to this particular team making the playoffs.

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