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    Default Mike is good to go

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2010...tarting-lineup




    You also need to say:

    By Mike Wells
    IndyStar




    Swingman Mike Dunleavy doesn't have to be reminded about the uncertainty related to his role with the Indiana Pacers.

    There are eager, young teammates ready to take his minutes.

    There are questions whether he will get back to being the player who averaged 19.1 points a game three seasons ago.

    And there's free agency awaiting Dunleavy after the season.

    He prepared himself all summer, ready to prove the skeptics wrong and let his younger teammates know they will have a fight on their hands if they expect to take his minutes.

    "I'm ready," Dunleavy said. "I had a good summer. I don't have any predictions or anything like that, but I'm ready to play."

    The reason Dunleavy is feeling good is he experienced a summer of basketball without any rehabilitation work required on his right knee for the first time since 2007.

    Dunleavy would rather erase the past two years from his memory.

    Knee problems, which eventually led to major surgery, limited him to 18 games two seasons ago, and he was never comfortable last season when he averaged 9.9 points, his lowest since his rookie season.

    He said last season felt similar to his rookie year with Golden State.

    "Last year, I don't think he had the strength in his legs or the confidence or a combination of both," Pacers coach Jim O'Brien said. "We missed a guy with a basketball IQ that's off the charts. I missed his scoring off slashes to the basket and his ability to stretch the court."

    A couple of days into training camp and Dunleavy is already showing signs of his former self.

    His jumper is fluid. He has been giving rookie Paul George a tutorial on moving without the ball in the half court. He showed how quickly he can get up the court when he took a pass from point guard Darren Collison, split the defense and made a left-handed layup while being fouled in a scrimmage Wednesday.

    "You can definitely see that he's getting back to the way he was before he got hurt, and we've missed the old Mike," forward Danny Granger said. "He makes everything easier for everybody out there."

    The wing is the Pacers' deepest position. Dunleavy is competing with Granger, George, James Posey, Brandon Rush, Dahntay Jones and even Lance Stephenson.

    "When I'm healthy, I'm pretty good," said Dunleavy, who also is playing for his next contract. "That's one of the advantages. The other thing is I'm pretty versatile. I can play a lot of positions, probably four positions. Hopefully we'll have some minutes for me."

    O'Brien has Dunleavy working with the first team in practice because Rush, penciled in as the starter, is suspended the first five games of the season after failing the league's mandatory drug test for the third time.

    Dunleavy wants to show enough that O'Brien will have a difficult decision on who will start at shooting guard when Rush returns.

    "Every coach likes to know who he can rely on," O'Brien said. "We know what we're going to get out of Mike. He's going to give you great help-side defense. He's going to really execute what we're trying to do offensively, because he knows it allows him to be his best. Mike is very reliable for us."

    The wing is the Pacers' deepest position. Dunleavy is competing with Granger, George, James Posey, Brandon Rush, Dahntay Jones and even Lance Stephenson.

    "When I'm healthy, I'm pretty good," said Dunleavy, who also is playing for his next contract. "That's one of the advantages. The other thing is I'm pretty versatile. I can play a lot of positions, probably four positions. Hopefully we'll have some minutes for me."

    O'Brien has Dunleavy working with the first team in practice because Rush, penciled in as the starter, is suspended the first five games of the season after failing the league's mandatory drug test for the third time.

    Dunleavy wants to show enough that O'Brien will have a difficult decision on who will start at shooting guard when Rush returns.

    "Every coach likes to know who he can rely on," O'Brien said. "We know what we're going to get out of Mike. He's going to give you great help-side defense. He's going to really execute what we're trying to do offensively, because he knows it allows him to be his best. Mike is very reliable for us."

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    Good to go as in Good to go to another team???????

    J/k

    With all the young talent we have now at the Swingmen positions, I would like to see those mins for the young guys to help their development
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    Were have I seen this before? JO maybe? How about Bender? I'm sorry but he hasn't done anything in three years, why take playing time from the young guys when we know that Mike is not part of the future anymore, to play to win the game?, for all I know they haven't win anything forever.

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    yes he's good to go to somewhere else.

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    For the first few months depending on how we're doing and how he's doing, I think Mike should be starting and getting a good amount time as Paul adjusts to our system as well as the SG position.

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Were have I seen this before? JO maybe? How about Bender? I'm sorry but he hasn't done anything in three years, why take playing time from the young guys when we know that Mike is not part of the future anymore, to play to win the game?, for all I know they haven't win anything forever.
    I don't think you can lump MD into the same category as JO and Bender. Wasn't this his first major medical issue? And there really was no precedent for the procedure he had, so there's nothing to compare it to. As far as last year, I'm thinking it just took more time to really rehab from that than expected. One year removed, this should be the real test if he's back, or not.

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    This is the first time in several years that the Pacers begin training camp all healthy. I don't see any reason to winge about it.

    If Dunleavy is healthy, that is a good thing.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    I really don't understand the angst, and it all goes back to this idea that young players have to have major floor time to develop. It's like no player ever developed as a backup and moved into the starting lineup - they all have to be starters by their sophomore year in the league or they are somehow busts.

    It may be a broken record, but I disagree with this. The best player should be the starter, even if he happens to be a ragged old man of 30. That instills in the young guy a drive to get on the floor and a confidence that when he is the best he isn't going to be benched purely due to age.

    Now, if we get back to the argument that Paul, Lance, or someone else is actually better at the wing spot than Dunleavy, OK, that's valid. But saying "he's a vet and was injured, therefore he should be benched no matter how good he comes back as" seems silly.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    Good to go as in Good to go to another team???????

    J/k

    With all the young talent we have now at the Swingmen positions, I would like to see those mins for the young guys to help their development
    This is a WIN NOW season.
    This is not a develop the young guys that aren't as good NOW season.
    If he's the best, he needs to be on the floor.

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Were have I seen this before? JO maybe? How about Bender? I'm sorry but he hasn't done anything in three years, why take playing time from the young guys when we know that Mike is not part of the future anymore, to play to win the game?, for all I know they haven't win anything forever.
    Where is it written that he's not part of the future?
    He's one of the top 3 or 4 players we have when he's healthy, if not 2nd.
    you play the game to WIN, not to develop young players.

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I really don't understand the angst, and it all goes back to this idea that young players have to have major floor time to develop. It's like no player ever developed as a backup and moved into the starting lineup - they all have to be starters by their sophomore year in the league or they are somehow busts.

    It may be a broken record, but I disagree with this. The best player should be the starter, even if he happens to be a ragged old man of 30. That instills in the young guy a drive to get on the floor and a confidence that when he is the best he isn't going to be benched purely due to age.

    Now, if we get back to the argument that Paul, Lance, or someone else is actually better at the wing spot than Dunleavy, OK, that's valid. But saying "he's a vet and was injured, therefore he should be benched no matter how good he comes back as" seems silly.

    No "seems", it IS silly.
    Time to change the thinking around here from "building at all costs" to winning basketball games now.
    For the coaching staff, for the fans, maybe for the sake of the organization in Indy, this team will put everything it has into winning.
    NOW.

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    I don't think you can lump MD into the same category as JO and Bender. Wasn't this his first major medical issue? And there really was no precedent for the procedure he had, so there's nothing to compare it to. As far as last year, I'm thinking it just took more time to really rehab from that than expected. One year removed, this should be the real test if he's back, or not.
    Mike is been dealing with that knee injury since he was in college(is not a new injury) and he had the procedure done two years ago not one.

    Response to bill: I understand your point about playing the best player available the thing is that Dunleavy hasn't done anything in two years and now the Pacers are expecting him to be the starter? I know he was good three years ago(he was 27 and in his prime) in fact he was my favorite player at that time, but expect him to be the same player he was at that time while taking playing time from the players of the future seems foolish to me.

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    Quote Originally Posted by MLB007 View Post
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    No "seems", it IS silly.
    Time to change the thinking around here from "building at all costs" to winning basketball games now.
    For the coaching staff, for the fans, maybe for the sake of the organization in Indy, this team will put everything it has into winning.
    NOW.
    Well they been trying to "win now"for the past five years and I don't know if you know this but "They haven't win anything"
    Last edited by vnzla81; 09-30-2010 at 10:09 AM.

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    BillS is right. In addition to his point, we can see how it is good for Paul George and the other young guys to have Dunleavy on the court with them:


    His jumper is fluid. He has been giving rookie Paul George a tutorial on moving without the ball in the half court. He showed how quickly he can get up the court when he took a pass from point guard Darren Collison, split the defense and made a left-handed layup while being fouled in a scrimmage Wednesday.

    I'm sure there will be moments during the season when some of us will want to see one player or another get more minutes than he is doing. But it is kookoo to be complaining after the third day of training camp because Mike Dunleavy is healthy and Coach O'Brien values his skills and discipline.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    I like Duns as a player. I love what he does on the court. I honestly get chills thinking about what this team could do if he is genuinely back to his old self this year, and I think he will be.

    Think about this... who do you want PG learning from, Duns or Brandon? I know what my answer is.

    Personally I would much prefer to have Dunleavy win the starting SG job this season, resign him to a reasonable contract at the end of this year, and let Rush go. I think having a guy like Dunleavy on this team is hugely important (assuming he's fully healthy of course), and Brandon just drags the team down.

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    I don't think you can lump MD into the same category as JO and Bender. Wasn't this his first major medical issue? And there really was no precedent for the procedure he had, so there's nothing to compare it to.
    His knee has been an issue since his rookie year in GS. It just wasn't as big a problem in GS because he didn't play as much. Once he took on a heavier workload, that's when it became a problem.

    Like Bender, his problems relate to problems stemming from a growth spurt. Bender's was in HS, Dunleavy's was in college. His wasn't as severe as Bender's, though.

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    As an example of why I enjoy watching Duns play so much, watch what he does at the 1:57 mark of the Day 2 highlights. He catches the ball, drives right, crosses over, runs PG off a McBobs screen, and then, most importantly, as he comes off the screen he gives a quick glance to his right to see where PG and McBobs are on the roll before instantly assessing that his best option is to take the mid-range jumper, which he drains.

    Mike's court awareness is incredible. He always knows what's going on around him, and he makes great decisions both with and without the ball. Rush, on the other hand, still plays like a deer in the headlights after two seasons in the NBA. He has great physical tools, but he appears to have no clue what it takes to succeed at this level.

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    For the first few months depending on how we're doing and how he's doing, I think Mike should be starting and getting a good amount time as Paul adjusts to our system as well as the SG position.
    I agree, perhaps we can trade Rush and Ford for a draft choice.

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    But it is kookoo to be complaining after the third day of training camp because Mike Dunleavy is healthy and Coach O'Brien values his skills and discipline.
    ... and his basketball IQ.

    Dunleavy is one of the smartest players in the game. He positions himself correctly and takes advantage of other players being less intelligent. He makes the right reads, is a tremendous passer, and makes the other around him better either through spacing, his passing, hitting a 12 foot jumper to bail out TJ, or any of the other numerous things he does well.

    I don't mind Dunleavy playing a decent amount of minutes, but I would hate for him to be playing 35 minutes per game and we split 13 minutes between George and Rush. I think Rush should be our starter because of his defense. I think Mike should be getting second unit burn and basically run the second team. He could do well with Price, Tyler, Dahntay/George, and Foster. That team is a solid mix of scoring and tough defense and I could guarantee that Dunleavy and Price would make great decisions to improve that unit. I have a feeling that our rotation will go 10 deep this year almost every single night.

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Were have I seen this before? JO maybe? How about Bender? I'm sorry but he hasn't done anything in three years, why take playing time from the young guys when we know that Mike is not part of the future anymore, to play to win the game?, for all I know they haven't win anything forever.
    Of all things, I am going to reverse course, assuming that Dunleavy is healthy and focused like has been shown so far, and say that playing Dunleavy can help develop the young guys at a faster rate than if he doesn't play.

    Anyone fortunate enough to be on the floor with the good Dunleavy will be rewarded for good movement without the ball, and be found in good shooting position more frequently due to the ball not needing to be delivered to them by the point guard as much. The likely improved play of the young guys who get to play at the same time good Dunleavy does will do more for their confidence and understanding of the game than being on the floor with other rookies or nearly any other player on the team, and their development would be faster despite not getting as many minutes due to the presence of Dunleavy in the lineup IMO.

    Dunleavy is the exception, for me at least. Play him as much as possible if he can do it and be as effective as I believe he can be. Otherwise, play the younger guys who are the future of the franchise, especially this year, to see who we have and who we need to plan on keeping, and what positions truly need money thrown at them next summer to finalize them. Unless the franchise actually threatens to be highly competitive, I would even go as far as to reduce the minutes of Granger by about 5 or so per game to get the young guys on the floor more frequently, which flies in the face of conventional wisdom, unless Granger is absolutely on fire with respect to scoring the ball. Quite a few additional minutes should be available with what I anticipate being a significantly reduced role for Rush as well, and that should make the room for Dunleavy to start with.

    For developmental purposes, it would be fascinating to see Stephenson, Dunleavy, George, Hansbrough, Rolle as a backup lineup in blowouts at times just to see how Dunleavy would run that squad. But, obviously only when the outcome of the game is not in doubt.

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    For developmental purposes, it would be fascinating to see Stephenson, Dunleavy, George, Hansbrough, Rolle as a backup lineup in blowouts at times just to see how Dunleavy would run that squad. But, obviously only when the outcome of the game is not in doubt.
    Very little is learned from garbage time minutes. That goes for fans, players and coaches. Garbage time really is garbage time in every sense.

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Very little is learned from garbage time minutes. That goes for fans, players and coaches. Garbage time really is garbage time in every sense.
    God bless you, sir.

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Very little is learned from garbage time minutes. That goes for fans, players and coaches. Garbage time really is garbage time in every sense.
    I think that depends on how it is played. If it is used as a learning opportunity, then I think it can be very beneficial.

    In the example given that you responded to, I believe Brad8888 is hoping that the knowledge of movement and reading the court that he (and I as well) contributes to Dunleavy translates well to the other four players on the court.

    But even without the learning opportunity, I totally disagree that garbage time is meaningless. If nothing else, it gives seldom used players an appreciation for the pace of the game that they cannot get in practice. And if they are successful, it can provide some confidence for seldom used players that they can carry into future games.

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    I think that depends on how it is played. If it is used as a learning opportunity, then I think it can be very beneficial.

    In the example given that you responded to, I believe Brad8888 is hoping that the knowledge of movement and reading the court that he (and I as well) contributes to Dunleavy translates well to the other four players on the court.

    But even without the learning opportunity, I totally disagree that garbage time is meaningless. If nothing else, it gives seldom used players an appreciation for the pace of the game that they cannot get in practice. And if they are successful, it can provide some confidence for seldom used players that they can carry into future games.
    Garbage time is usually played very sloppily. It's about as useful as watching a scrimmage or summer league. You learn about as much, which is to say, very little.

    I suppose there's certain things you can tell: That guy is tall. That guy is short. That guy can jump.

    Beyond that, you don't get a very good idea of how a garbage time superstar can play in real situations where the game matters. Go watch a guy like Marco Belinelli play garbage time. You'll think he can actually be a starter from watching him play at end of a 20 point blowout, but in reality he's just not very good.

    Garbage time lacks structure and discipline. In fact, there are many instances where coaches AVOID putting young guys in garbage time because the chances of developing bad habits in such an environment are greater than when putting him in situations that actually matter.

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    Default Re: Mike is good to go

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Very little is learned from garbage time minutes. That goes for fans, players and coaches. Garbage time really is garbage time in every sense.
    Having Dunleavy in the starting line up is going to give a lot of garbage time to the young players(by getting blowout) so now that I think about is a win win situation(green)
    Last edited by vnzla81; 09-30-2010 at 10:43 AM.

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