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Thread: Lance not allowed in Conseco

  1. #51
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I don't think he will ever play a game for the Pacers. I think they are trying to a) keep the media at bay, b) help a troubled, young man and c) keep his skills warm for a trade.

    As for what happened, is there a denial? I would need to hear a whole lot of denying...including some from the Pacer organization...to not believe the basic story published.
    As far as I know Lance hasn't admitted any guilt, and we haven't heard either sides story, just what the media reports.

    You believe what you read in the newspapers and online? Now-days stories are completely fabricated and the media always plays up the most sensational aspects of any story, true or not.

    For all we know she got in his face and he just shoved her away from him and she fell down the stairs. There might not have been any intent on his part to hurt her at all. If they were circling around while arguing he might not even have realized the stairs were behind her.

    As for slamming her head against the stairs, he could have rushed downstairs and tried to pick her up and she jerks away from him and that's how her head got slammed against the stairs.

    On the other hand she could have gone up the stairs being conciliatory, and he is such a jerk he shoved her down the stairs on purpose, then not satisfied with that rushed down and slammed her head against the stairs.

    I know people report things in a way that supports their position. Which story do you buy?

    Those who buy either story without knowing all the facts need to start using their head for something other than a wintertime hat rack.

    The truth is we just know what Stephenson has been charged with and he's been in trouble before so we tend to believe the worst. What we don't know is if there are any witnesses other then her girlfriends.

    My opinion is he needs more than counciling if he did all of what he's charged with on purpose, if it's all true he needs jail time. However I refuse to judge him on what I read in media reports.

    We may never know what actually happened. But when did that ever stop people from picking sides? And with the anonymity the Internet gives it makes it worse.

    I think the Pacers are handling things the right way.

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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Restore the Passion - Restore the Pride

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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    As for what happened, is there a denial?
    Lance's agent provided a complete, unequivocal denial of Lance doing anything to intentionally harm the girl.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Lance's agent provided a complete, unequivocal denial of Lance doing anything to intentionally harm the girl.
    That's what I was looking for. Allegations of this nature are either denied at the outset or they are not. Without a denial under the circumstances, it indicates guilt. With a denial, it's a complete unknown because it's now purely a he-said, she-said.

    BTW, it's not news to anyone that the media and newspaper stories are not gospel. However, more stories are correct than are wholly inaccurate or need retracted. In any event, people here can believe whoever they want to. I suppose people can prefer to believe someone with a poor reputation if they want. ...or they can believe a somewhat unique story from the victim detailing an altercation...one that probably is backed up by medical records that have been reviewed thoroughly by both sides considering they are going to trial.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 09-04-2010 at 02:49 PM.

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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    That's what I was looking for. Allegations of this nature are either denied at the outset or they are not. Without a denial under the circumstances, it indicates guilt. With a denial, it's a complete unknown because it's now purely a he-said, she-said.
    Not to burst your bubble, but isn't it "he said-they-said?"

    Last I checked, there were witnesses.
    Last edited by Kstat; 09-04-2010 at 03:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Not to burst your bubble, but isn't he "he said-they-said?"

    Last I checked, there were witnesses.
    witnesses to what exactly .. we don't know...

    and how good can a witness(s) be??

    If the 2 supposed witnesses were here girlfriends... I'm sorry but that doesn't make it end-all beat-all ... true ...

    Now if they were innocent bystanders... that is a different story .. as there would be no alterior motive to help out a friend..
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    It makes a difference because three people are more believable than one, especially if they all tell the same story.

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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    It makes a difference because three people are more believable than one, especially if they all tell the same story.

    And I can tell you ... That if I were to go commit a crime... that In 10 minutes , I could have 15 witnesses giving me an alibi ... ALL telling the same story ..

    (Not that I'd EVER consider doing anything against the law.. cause I wouldn't , just using as an example trying to prove my point)

    I know where you are coming from , I do .. But people lie and exagerrate .. and ultimately , their credibility is up for a jury to decide ...
    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Quote Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
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    And I can tell you ... That if I were to go commit a crime... that In 10 minutes , I could have 15 witnesses giving me an alibi ... ALL telling the same story ..

    (Not that I'd EVER consider doing anything against the law.. cause I wouldn't)

    I know where you are coming from , I do .. But people lie and exagerrate .. and ultimately , their credibility is up for a jury to decide ...
    I'm sorry, but that's total crap.

    You can tell 15 people to lie for you, but you cannot get them to all tell the exact same story. Those types of witness reports are picked apart for discrepancies long before they even go to trial.

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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I'm sorry, but that's total crap.

    You can tell 15 people to lie for you, but you cannot get them to all tell the exact same story. Those types of witness reports are picked apart for discrepancies long before they even go to trial.
    3 is different than 15. It would be very easy for 3 friends to match their stories up. Like its been said, never believe any of the hear say that comes out of the prosecuters report. Its alldesigned to build a conviction. It does not have to be the whole truth. Its a chess match.

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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    ...just like the words of a defense attorney are designed to build an acquittal?

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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Not to burst your bubble, but isn't it "he said-they-said?"

    Last I checked, there were witnesses.
    We don't know what the witnesses said, if all of them supported the girlfriend, or if one or more of the witnesses supported Lance.

    It would seem the witnesses would all, unanimously, support the prosecutor's charges. But maybe not. We just don't know yet.

    Plus, it's quite a different thing for witnesses to talk briefly with cops and for witnesses to be thoroughly grilled by opposing counsel.

    So, it may be "he said, she said, and they said."
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    If the witnesses supported Lance, I sincerely doubt he would be prosecuted.

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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    If the witnesses supported Lance, I sincerely doubt he would be prosecuted.
    I think that's probable.

    However, there may be a minority of witnesses (one even) that sees it more his way. We don't know yet. And we may find it less leaning toward the girlfriend upon cross examination. It's not beyond the pale to suspect prosecutors of twisting the accounts to add up to the charges they are bringing.

    But, yeah, probability is probably not in Lance's favor. Pun intended.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  19. #65

    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Not to mention, the girls parents have said this isn't the first time, and they didn't report it before because they were giving him another chance.

    Which we also haven't touched on much. Because there are other witnesses to a time before this, Lance actually may be facing more than just the charge from this incident. Repeated domestic abuse tends to get more time than just one incident.

    This really isn't like a "rape" incident with a famous athlete.
    1. Lance was going to owe the girl money for the next 18 years. She's the mother of his child. She'd want him to make as much money as possible, not to spend the next five years (or more) in jail.

    2. This isn't a case of "he said" "she said." She has medical records of her injuries.

    3. There are witnesses to what he did, and she has witnesses of him hurting her before.

    So yea, is there a slim chance he's innocent..yea..a really slim chance. There's a much better chance he's not. (And if he doesn't get found guilty, it'll be more than likely because the girl thought my first point through, and went.."my daughter and I will have a much better life if Lance gets to make money.." which is unfortunate. And she just will drop the charges. But at this point, it doesn't seem like her family will let her. )

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  21. #66
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Not to burst your bubble, but isn't it "he said-they-said?"

    Last I checked, there were witnesses.
    No burst here. You're actually supporting me.

    I torched this pick from the moment it was made. He played well in summer league and proceeds to be compared to DWade on this board. Ok fine. Certain posters whom I respect were excited about the guy...so I reluctantly started to meander toward the band wagon. While I was headed toward the wagon, I was fortunately not on it...so I have no grief. I believe some Pacer fans are somewhere between 1 and 4 on this guy.

    1. SHOCK & DENIAL-
    You will probably react to learning of the loss with numbed disbelief. You may deny the reality of the loss at some level, in order to avoid the pain. Shock provides emotional protection from being overwhelmed all at once. This may last for weeks.

    2. PAIN & GUILT-
    As the shock wears off, it is replaced with the suffering of unbelievable pain. Although excruciating and almost unbearable, it is important that you experience the pain fully, and not hide it, avoid it or escape from it with alcohol or drugs. You may have guilty feelings or remorse over things you did or didn't do with your loved one. Life feels chaotic and scary during this phase.

    3. ANGER & BARGAINING-
    Frustration gives way to anger, and you may lash out and lay unwarranted blame for the death on someone else. Please try to control this, as permanent damage to your relationships may result. This is a time for the release of bottled up emotion. You may rail against fate, questioning "Why me?" You may also try to bargain in vain with the powers that be for a way out of your despair ("I will never drink again if you just bring him back")

    4. "DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS-
    Just when your friends may think you should be getting on with your life, a long period of sad reflection will likely overtake you. This is a normal stage of grief, so do not be "talked out of it" by well-meaning outsiders. Encouragement from others is not helpful to you during this stage of grieving. During this time, you finally realize the true magnitude of your loss, and it depresses you. You may isolate yourself on purpose, reflect on things you did with your lost one, and focus on memories of the past. You may sense feelings of emptiness or despair.

    5. THE UPWARD TURN-
    As you start to adjust to life without your dear one, your life becomes a little calmer and more organized. Your physical symptoms lessen, and your "depression" begins to lift slightly.

    6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH-
    As you become more functional, your mind starts working again, and you will find yourself seeking realistic solutions to problems posed by life without your loved one. You will start to work on practical and financial problems and reconstructing yourself and your life without him or her.

    7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE-
    During this, the last of the seven stages in this grief model, you learn to accept and deal with the reality of your situation. Acceptance does not necessarily mean instant happiness. Given the pain and turmoil you have experienced, you can never return to the carefree, untroubled YOU that existed before this tragedy. But you will find a way forward.
    You will start to look forward and actually plan things for the future. Eventually, you will be able to think about your lost loved one without pain; sadness, yes, but the wrenching pain will be gone. You will once again anticipate some good times to come, and yes, even find joy again in the experience of living.

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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Quote Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
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    And I can tell you ... That if I were to go commit a crime... that In 10 minutes , I could have 15 witnesses giving me an alibi ... ALL telling the same story ..

    (Not that I'd EVER consider doing anything against the law.. cause I wouldn't , just using as an example trying to prove my point)

    I know where you are coming from , I do .. But people lie and exagerrate .. and ultimately , their credibility is up for a jury to decide ...
    And over the next few days the detectives would pick apart every person that wasn't actually there.
    it's the DETAILS baby, and you can't even come CLOSE to getting everyone on the same page with an alibi as far as the DETAILS in a short period of time.

    And that's where they'd nail you.

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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    No burst here. You're actually supporting me.

    I torched this pick from the moment it was made. He played well in summer league and proceeds to be compared to DWade on this board. Ok fine. Certain posters whom I respect were excited about the guy...so I reluctantly started to meander toward the band wagon. While I was headed toward the wagon, I was fortunately not on it...so I have no grief. I believe some Pacer fans are somewhere between 1 and 4 on this guy.

    1. SHOCK & DENIAL-
    You will probably react to learning of the loss with numbed disbelief. You may deny the reality of the loss at some level, in order to avoid the pain. Shock provides emotional protection from being overwhelmed all at once. This may last for weeks.

    2. PAIN & GUILT-
    As the shock wears off, it is replaced with the suffering of unbelievable pain. Although excruciating and almost unbearable, it is important that you experience the pain fully, and not hide it, avoid it or escape from it with alcohol or drugs. You may have guilty feelings or remorse over things you did or didn't do with your loved one. Life feels chaotic and scary during this phase.

    3. ANGER & BARGAINING-
    Frustration gives way to anger, and you may lash out and lay unwarranted blame for the death on someone else. Please try to control this, as permanent damage to your relationships may result. This is a time for the release of bottled up emotion. You may rail against fate, questioning "Why me?" You may also try to bargain in vain with the powers that be for a way out of your despair ("I will never drink again if you just bring him back")

    4. "DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS-
    Just when your friends may think you should be getting on with your life, a long period of sad reflection will likely overtake you. This is a normal stage of grief, so do not be "talked out of it" by well-meaning outsiders. Encouragement from others is not helpful to you during this stage of grieving. During this time, you finally realize the true magnitude of your loss, and it depresses you. You may isolate yourself on purpose, reflect on things you did with your lost one, and focus on memories of the past. You may sense feelings of emptiness or despair.

    5. THE UPWARD TURN-
    As you start to adjust to life without your dear one, your life becomes a little calmer and more organized. Your physical symptoms lessen, and your "depression" begins to lift slightly.

    6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH-
    As you become more functional, your mind starts working again, and you will find yourself seeking realistic solutions to problems posed by life without your loved one. You will start to work on practical and financial problems and reconstructing yourself and your life without him or her.

    7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE-
    During this, the last of the seven stages in this grief model, you learn to accept and deal with the reality of your situation. Acceptance does not necessarily mean instant happiness. Given the pain and turmoil you have experienced, you can never return to the carefree, untroubled YOU that existed before this tragedy. But you will find a way forward.
    You will start to look forward and actually plan things for the future. Eventually, you will be able to think about your lost loved one without pain; sadness, yes, but the wrenching pain will be gone. You will once again anticipate some good times to come, and yes, even find joy again in the experience of living.
    LOL, no ****.

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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I'm sorry, but that's total crap.

    You can tell 15 people to lie for you, but you cannot get them to all tell the exact same story. Those types of witness reports are picked apart for discrepancies long before they even go to trial.
    And that's really the reason Big Ben wasn't ultimately charged in his case. Something probably happened. But the sorority sisters didn't get their version of the story together, and the victim had no idea what happened (and wasn't even sure if anything did happen, except her sorority sisters were telling her something did happen.)

    That's, of course, why the truth is always an easier story to tell.

    No idea what to expect of this case. But I doubt this is going to be a "he-said, she-said type of case."
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Quote Originally Posted by Miller-Time View Post
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    I wonder if Clark will be able to mentor Lance while he is in jail assuming he is found guilty.

    I'm sorry but Clark K being a "mentor" to Lance is just a poor PR stunt by the Pacers.

    I mean come on what in the world is Clark suppose to do to help Lance control his anger? Clark is not and should not have to be a babysitter.

    As far as I know Lance not stepping into Conseco again would be a good thing. The Pacers need to get their heads out of the sand and cut him. They gave him a chance and it didn't take him long to throw it away. He isn't worthy of a second chance.

    I'm sorry but I am sick and tired of these pro athletes, with god given gifts, just throwing it all away and being given a second chance over and over again. When will the leagues (all of them not just the NBA) hold these players accountable for their actions? No a 5 game suspension and $20,000 fine is not it.

    I like what Larry has done overall but if he can't get this right, getting rid of these ungrateful, irresponsible players then he needs to go. It was one thing to draft the guy in the second round but it is another thing to give him a second chance.

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  28. #71
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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Slaughter View Post
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    Admitting or being found guilty has nothing to do with the options the Pacers have. They can request waivers on him at anytime.

    Training camp opens a couple weeks before his first court date so when the Pacers start making the news again, his name will naturally get mentioned. Nothing about Lance & his situation will be positive for the Pacers. The longer he remains with the team the longer the negative press.

    I hope the dude gets his **** together just as much as anyone else. Bird has spent the better part of his time here clearing out the knuckleheads & attempting to clean up the image of the team. Allowing this punk to wear a Pacer uni would undo all the work that he has done.

    He should have been gone already.
    Due process be damned?

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  30. #72

    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Hard to know how this will play out in the end. I am prepared for all types of bizarre endings.

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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Quote Originally Posted by Miller-Time View Post
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    Not to bust the bubble of speculation over what the guy said he did and what really happened I think that this article sums it up. Again, it looks like the Pacers are taking steps to keep this kid from doing more dumb stuff until the legal process has been played out.

    I really think that the Pacers are going to stick with this guy unless there is a real reason to dump him on the streets. So, why not be careful with him and keep his temper and skills in check for a trade or possibly playing. No doubt that this will bring more negative press once the season starts rolling. But, this gives them some positive responses to the questions and shows that the organization is doing something to deal with it.

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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    And she just will drop the charges. But at this point, it doesn't seem like her family will let her.
    I dont think she could drop the charges even if she wanted to.I believe in the state of New York once the incident happens, the prosecutors are obligated to pursue charges
    Sittin on top of the world!

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    Default Re: Lance not allowed in Conseco

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    I dont think she could drop the charges even if she wanted to.I believe in the state of New York once the incident happens, the prosecutors are obligated to pursue charges
    I don't think that's merely a New York thing. Once you get prosecutors involved, the genie is out of the bottle.

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