Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 78

Thread: What are we wanting from Rush.

  1. #26
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    naptown
    Age
    21
    Posts
    16,656
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Best player, and best all-around often aren't the same. Anyways you got to consider the only real difference between him and Granger is that Granger is far more aggressive and consistent. If Granger is the best player on the team it isn't that big of a step.
    darren collison is the best "ALL AROUND" player best defense offensve combo if thats what your talking about and best passer

  2. #27
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    naptown
    Age
    21
    Posts
    16,656
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    unless were in summer league he is not gonna be the best player on the team let only the court lol
    and also his jumper and driving ablities are no where close to dannys he has a long way to be the best all around player

  3. #28
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Oakland, CA
    Posts
    923

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Best player, and best all-around often aren't the same. Anyways you got to consider the only real difference between him and Granger is that Granger is far more aggressive and consistent. If Granger is the best player on the team it isn't that big of a step.
    Do you mean like a jack-of-all-trades type of guy? 2nd best 3 baller, 3rd best rebounder, 1st best defender, 3rd best driver, etc.?

    I think on his good nights he is already that. Unless you count "fire" "desire" and "personality." His bad nights on the other hand....

  4. #29
    Release Psycho T pwee31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    7,088

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    consistency and confidence. Both things he's capable of

  5. #30

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    Consistently score in ways not involving immediately giving up the ball so he can stand behind the arc and wait to shoot an open 3 pointer.

    And count's thing, about not pooping in the pants.

  6. #31
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Posts
    684

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    With Collison on the team and Price recovering, we have a couple of legit NBA PGs. I would prefer to see Rush under a different coach as well, but just having guys who can run the show and help set up Rush so he can play to his strengths is great for him.


    BTW, why is it OK for most players in this league to play shoddy defense as long as they score, but when they are a pro on defense but have limited offense they should be traded? I am so sick of seeing defense marginalized.

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to IndyPacer For This Useful Post:


  8. #32
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Posts
    684

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacers74 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I do think Rush plays good defense, but I need to see him shutdown some big name players to help us get wins before I anoit him the king of defense.... Defensive numbers don't look all that great win we lose games.
    Of all the reasons that cause this team to lose games, deficiencies with Rush's defense would be at the bottom of that list.

  9. #33
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    7,081

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    Quote Originally Posted by judicata View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Do you mean like a jack-of-all-trades type of guy? 2nd best 3 baller, 3rd best rebounder, 1st best defender, 3rd best driver, etc.?

    I think on his good nights he is already that. Unless you count "fire" "desire" and "personality." His bad nights on the other hand....
    That is somewhat what I mean, and that is something that just comes down to being consistent and being more aggressive. I would be satisfied if he just did that this season, although I think he can be much more than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyPacer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    With Collison on the team and Price recovering, we have a couple of legit NBA PGs. I would prefer to see Rush under a different coach as well, but just having guys who can run the show and help set up Rush so he can play to his strengths is great for him.


    BTW, why is it OK for most players in this league to play shoddy defense as long as they score, but when they are a pro on defense but have limited offense they should be traded? I am so sick of seeing defense marginalized.
    It is because defense doesn't show up in the stat line, or get the player on ESPN. Many times people care more about hearing about their team and players than they do with actually winning a championship. They don't realize it, but they do.

  10. #34
    Member Trophy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    8,556

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    He needs to shoot a lot more 3's. He's a good shooter.

  11. #35
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    naptown
    Age
    21
    Posts
    16,656
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He needs to shoot a lot more 3's. He's a good shooter.
    im sure JOB can arrange that

  12. #36
    The light, not the lie. kester99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Disgusta, GA
    Posts
    8,821
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    Finish strong. He's efficient from the 3pt range. Mix it up more, and more effectively. Collison should help with that.
    [~]) ... Cheers! Go Pacers!

  13. #37

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyPacer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    With Collison on the team and Price recovering, we have a couple of legit NBA PGs. I would prefer to see Rush under a different coach as well, but just having guys who can run the show and help set up Rush so he can play to his strengths is great for him.
    Maybe. Hopefully. But it could just be a Rush thing.

  14. #38

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyPacer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    BTW, why is it OK for most players in this league to play shoddy defense as long as they score, but when they are a pro on defense but have limited offense they should be traded? I am so sick of seeing defense marginalized.
    Nothing wrong with a one-dimensional, defensive-minded specialist, but we already have that role filled with Dahntay Jones. Do we need two?

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Chuck Chillout For This Useful Post:


  16. #39

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    darren collison is the best "ALL AROUND" player best defense offensve combo if thats what your talking about and best passer
    Can we wait for a season with Collison as a starter before claiming that? My goodness some of you already have the kid in the Hall of Fame. Slow down.

  17. #40
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Posts
    684

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Chillout View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Maybe. Hopefully. But it could just be a Rush thing.
    By no means do I think Rush is without faults and areas that could be improved, but the scrutiny he receives seems to be disproportionately harsh. The "consistency" criticism seems to mean "offensive consistency" specifically when no one but perhaps Murphy (deservedly in his case) has been given an equivalent amount of criticism for defensive weaknesses. It seems many fans here are just as guilty as Troy for only focusing on the offensive side of the floor. I don't think trying to force Rush into being a scoring machine will work. It's not who he is. But adding PGs that can help set him up should help. Rush just isn't great at ball handling and creating his shot, but put him in a situation where good PGs can help reduce the need for him to try to do that and it should help him considerably. Just as run and gun small ball is an atrocious fit for Hibbert, Rush is lost trying to create his own shot and be a force on offense. He's much better suited as a player who capitalizes on openings created by the primary scorers and the floor general. Rush has never been a scoring machine, but he will always be valuable if he is put in situations that maximizes his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses.
    Last edited by IndyPacer; 08-20-2010 at 09:54 PM.

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to IndyPacer For This Useful Post:


  19. #41

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyPacer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    By no means do I think Rush is without faults and areas that could be improved, but the scrutiny he receives seems to be disproportionately high. The "consistency" criticism seems to mean "offensive consistency" specifically when no one buy perhaps Murphy (deservedly in his case) has been given an equivalent amount of criticism for defensive weaknesses. It seems many fans here are just as guilty as Troy for only focusing on the offensive side of the floor.
    I think you're right- Rush gets scapegoated more than most of the rest of the team. Even Denari was still trotting out the same, tired "I think Rush may really be getting some confidence..." line at the end of last season.

    But he gets scrutinized because his talent raises expectations. I never see DJones becoming a complete player- he can't shoot, it's not going to happen. But Rush has shown the ability to score from anywhere on the floor, so when he alligator arms up another midrange jumper that only grazes the net, it's frustrating.

  20. #42

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    How 'bout he just not spend the first two months of the season looking like he just pooped his pants?
    JOB is a silly man

  21. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to jhondog28 For This Useful Post:


  22. #43
    Dutch Pacers Fan
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Age
    26
    Posts
    508

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    I want him to be second team defensive. Maybe that will shut up some people up, as I think he is, should and will be one of the players that will help bring us a championship. This kid is a winner, and the right coach will make you see that.
    yay, we're going back to the play-offs!

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to pacersgroningen For This Useful Post:


  24. #44
    Step aside, King James BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    14,447

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    I simply want more aggressiveness and swagger. He is way too timid for a guy with his physical abilities. Maybe he needs something to alter his mood.
    LeWade are going down.

  25. #45
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lifelong Indy-area resident
    Age
    62
    Posts
    4,551

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    Rush is 6-6 / 210 and is probably one of the stronger SGs in the league. He needs to continue to play solid defense. Offensively, if I can combine thoughts from multiple posters, he needs to be CONSISTENTLY AGGRESSIVE.

    I don't mind him taking wide open threes, with his percentage he has earned that right. But, I do want to see him create space, fake the shot and drive to the rim and finish... that alone should cause him to get fouled enough times per game to gain an extra 3-4 free throws per game.... which he must hit at 80% or better.

    But most of all... I want him to improve in enough areas that all of us here on the forum take his consistent performance for granted and will never again disagree on the value of Rush. When we talk about our SG position, it will only be a discussion of who we should acquire as a solid backup to Rush.

    If we drop Rush as a point of disagreement, then he most likely will have satisfied nearly all of us. That's what I want for Rush.

  26. #46

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    I want him to be more aggressive taking more outside shots and going hard to the basket. I want him to be as aggressive on offense as he is on defense.

    I do not want to be making excuses for him at this time next year and I want him to find his role in the offense.

    I want him to pick up the slack when the team is behind and no one else seems to be able to take charge. In other words some times he has to be the go-to guy and not fade into the background.

  27. #47
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Oakland, CA
    Posts
    923

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyPacer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    BTW, why is it OK for most players in this league to play shoddy defense as long as they score, but when they are a pro on defense but have limited offense they should be traded? I am so sick of seeing defense marginalized.
    This is a great question, but I think there are a few legitimate arguments why this is (and perhaps should be) the case.

    First, basketball is a game that heavily favors the offense. How many other games have one team scoring on nearly 50% of their possessions? The other team is going to score in bunches, and you have to keep up. I think defense is huge, but this isn't a sport where you can lock down on D and get a few points off turnovers and win the game. This also means that the noticeable marginal returns on playing hard defense are pretty low. In this league if you are a defensive specialist that can hold a star to less that 40% shooting you are pretty much a stud. That doesn't translate into a huge difference on the scoreboard, especially if the other team had viable second options.

    Second, the same dudes play offense and defense. There are no "defensive positions" like in a lot of field sports or complete lineup substitutions. That means there is no division of labor and that stamina is a zero sum game.

    If other games are 50% O and 50% D, AND have those guys split up, you can easily have guys that are 90%+ D and 10% O. In basketball, it is more like 35% D and 65% O and the same guys run both ways. Having one dimensional players is going to hurt bad after one or two.

    Third, defense is "easy." At least that is the common perception. You have to be a decent athlete with enough length and a lot of heart to be a great defensive player. We've seen a number of offensive stars knuckle up and become pretty damn good defensive players as well. Not so much in the other direction.

    Hell, look at Chuck's comments about DJones. DJones is an athletic freak by human standards. That, plus his grit makes a good defender. But he doesn't have whatever nebulous talent that requires good offense.

    Think about the inverse. Does anyone think that Monta Ellis or Amare or any other athletic and talented offensive star can't be a pretty good defender in this league? I think they can, and maybe its a myth (or Jordan's fault) but it certainly feels that way.

    Don't take this as an endorsement that basketball does not need defense, or that Rush's defense isn't valuable: that isn't my point at all. Its just not nearly valuable enough to ignore the offense of Rush where (1) we already have another defensive SG, (2) we have other talented wings that need some burn, and (3) he has gotten ample opportunity to develop his game, and somehow seems to take a step back every time he takes a step forward.

    Anyway, I know there are some compelling arguments the other way, so lets hear them!
    Last edited by judicata; 08-20-2010 at 11:41 PM. Reason: formatting

  28. #48
    Yeah, I'm a Pacers fan. MyFavMartin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    In the Washington DC area
    Posts
    4,277
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    Think I'd like to see him come off the bench as a 6th man til he consistently has big nights.

  29. #49
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    7,081

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    Quote Originally Posted by judicata View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    This is a great question, but I think there are a few legitimate arguments why this is (and perhaps should be) the case.

    First, basketball is a game that heavily favors the offense. How many other games have one team scoring on nearly 50% of their possessions? The other team is going to score in bunches, and you have to keep up. I think defense is huge, but this isn't a sport where you can lock down on D and get a few points off turnovers and win the game. This also means that the noticeable marginal returns on playing hard defense are pretty low. In this league if you are a defensive specialist that can hold a star to less that 40% shooting you are pretty much a stud. That doesn't translate into a huge difference on the scoreboard, especially if the other team had viable second options.

    Second, the same dudes play offense and defense. There are no "defensive positions" like in a lot of field sports or complete lineup substitutions. That means there is no division of labor and that stamina is a zero sum game.

    If other games are 50% O and 50% D, AND have those guys split up, you can easily have guys that are 90%+ D and 10% O. In basketball, it is more like 35% D and 65% O and the same guys run both ways. Having one dimensional players is going to hurt bad after one or two.

    Third, defense is "easy." At least that is the common perception. You have to be a decent athlete with enough length and a lot of heart to be a great defensive player. We've seen a number of offensive stars knuckle up and become pretty damn good defensive players as well. Not so much in the other direction.

    Hell, look at Chuck's comments about DJones. DJones is an athletic freak by human standards. That, plus his grit makes a good defender. But he doesn't have whatever nebulous talent that requires good offense.

    Think about the inverse. Does anyone think that Monta Ellis or Amare or any other athletic and talented offensive star can't be a pretty good defender in this league? I think they can, and maybe its a myth (or Jordan's fault) but it certainly feels that way.

    Don't take this as an endorsement that basketball does not need defense, or that Rush's defense isn't valuable: that isn't my point at all. Its just not nearly valuable enough to ignore the offense of Rush where (1) we already have another defensive SG, (2) we have other talented wings that need some burn, and (3) he has gotten ample opportunity to develop his game, and somehow seems to take a step back every time he takes a step forward.

    Anyway, I know there are some compelling arguments the other way, so lets hear them!
    To be just another good defender just takes effort, but to be an extremely good defender takes more than physical skills. The great defenders know what the other player is going to do before the other player does it, that isn't something that can be taught. At the same time there is a similar difference between the great shooters and scorers from your everyday good shooter and scorer.

  30. #50
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    naptown
    Age
    21
    Posts
    16,656
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: What are we wanting from Rush.

    Quote Originally Posted by KennerLeaguer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Can we wait for a season with Collison as a starter before claiming that? My goodness some of you already have the kid in the Hall of Fame. Slow down.
    it was a response to someone who said brandon was best player on team i said danny grannger then he said danny didnt play good enoght D i was just proving a point that rush wasnt the best

Similar Threads

  1. The value of Brandon Rush (got higher)
    By cdash in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: 07-17-2010, 10:40 PM
  2. Replies: 23
    Last Post: 03-05-2010, 04:04 PM
  3. Kareem Rush Signs with Philly
    By duke dynamite in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-29-2008, 09:10 PM
  4. Replies: 95
    Last Post: 12-14-2007, 05:12 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •